Me too.

Well I guess I'll post these pics here.  I just installed the flat head grip screws (hate hex grip screws!!!) and commander hammer this morning.  I've never been necessarily trying to go for the MEU(SOC) look, but I am a huge fan of that pistol so I'm not surprised that mine ended up looking like one

Stumbled across this pic in an airsoft forum, with a caption that the marines have been building these since around 1986. Now the intriguing item to me is the shinny dot right in front of the thumb safety. Does anyone know if they ever used the Meuschke type ambi safety with the sear pin that captures the left side?

bump

i was just looking at a thread on 1911forum.com started by a member named ugotbit titled "help me build my meusoc clone" which shows a few genuine meusoc pic's one of which is a springfield proffesional model with forward serrations and a set of kings ambi. thumb safety's .i was amazed to see the kings safety still in use. hopefully someone here can post a link. great pictures!!! including a usmc team pistol with a caspian slide & usgi frame

Thats me.



The wind got knocked out of my sails when the Millet sights became unobtainium. Still thinking of my next move, got cought up building another rifle.

ETA-LINK-1911 FORUM

Some good info since I checked last!

I've been thinking of using an over sized Novak front sight filed to a close representation of the Millet profile.

Cool pics the guy posted of the Pro/MEU(SOC) .45.  Despite some misinformation posted in that thread, these were not purchsed commercially by units in "small lots of 5 or 10."  Not sure where that guy came up with that  LOL, but it's incorrect.  MARCORSYSCOM purchased 50 Pros for Det 1 when it was stood up as a stopgap so training could get underway prior to delivery of the Kimber ICQBs.  These were standard Pros but without nightsights, with a lanyard loop on the magazine well, and with the Pachmayr grips.  When the Kimbers were delivered, SYSCOM took the Pros back and they got mixed into the system at the PWS, and as those great pics seem to attest, have eventually (over the course of what is likely several rebuilds each) become regular old MEU(SOC) .45s now with King's thumb safeties added, front cocking serrations cut, and the mag wells removed.

ETA:  Unlike the erroneous poster in that other thread, I have a source for my info-  "Springfield Armory's Professional Model, A Supplemental Pistol for Military Use?" by Pat Rogers, S.W.A.T., December 2003, pgs. 56-57.

anybody know if anything is done to the magwell?

I consider mine to be MEU(SOC) inspired.  No ambi safety, and a S&A Grip safety.  I bought it as a pile of incomplete parts at a pawn shop.

I like the simplicity, and utility of it.

bump

another MEU SOCesque pistol... not accurate, but in the spirit of utility and simplicity...
I can't take any credit in it's creation, I'm just lucky to be it's current owner. Nice bits by Bob Rodgers

Just a brief update-

I do in fact intend to finish this up at some point in time, however, due to a quite interesting series of events, I ended up being seperated from my primary lap-top, and will not be re-united with it- or most of my research materials for this article, until most likely the end of January at least.  

I'm glad to see the MEU(SOC) inspired builds everyone is posting, and perhaps in time, we can get a MEU(SOC)-inspired/style pic thread going.  

Incidentally, on an impulse, I just bought this pistol -



an "NM" frame SA Loaded parked on gunbroker so I'm sure y'all can guess where this is headed, for starters, I'll probably just slap some Pachmayr grips (anyone got an extra set? ) on it for now, but slowly but surely make it a full Variant 4 replica.

~Augee

To each his own, I like it how it is.

Nothing wrong with it the way it is, but between the TRP and SA Custom I've got... well, I didn't really need another Loaded except specifically to put together a MEU(SOC) clone .  Ironically, though a lot of what I look for in a 1911 is informed by the MEU(SOC), I don't actually have a complete "clone" of one, and I already have other plans for the grips, which is really the only change that will be made for the time being.  Everything else is a long way off.  

~Augee

...and those Simonich Gunners in Coyote Brown look fine too...I like it...
Bill

This is without a doubt the best MEUSOC thread there is. And the thing I really like about it is there is no 'elitist' attitude from the ones who have very specific clones, and 'MEUSOC-ish' imperfect copies are welcomed. There is a 1911 forum where you will be flamed for showing or mentioning a less-than-perfect clone. My feeling is, even a clone based on a USGI receiver with everything exact to a known MEUSOC version is still just a replica because it was never a USGI pistol in that configuration. Consequently there is no real legitimacy for the elitists to stand on.
I got interested in it because when I saw my first picture of one I knew it represented to me the ideal fighting 1911. I started modifying a Taurus to that end, but along the way I drifted a little as I saw custom pistols that obviously had been influenced by the MEUSOC but not as clones. So this is how it is today. Because the front strap is already checkered, and to fit my hand better, I removed the center panel from the Pachmayrs.

Talked to a Marine Master Sgt last night at the passenger terminal at Bagram Airfield.  He was carrying a MEUSOC 1911 with ambi safety, Wilson mag and condition 3 (FOB rules).

CD

CD, when're you gonna do a similar write-up on USASOC 1911s?  

Love hearing about them "in the wild," less enthused hearing that you had to hang in the PAX terminal at Bagram... or anywhere at Bagram for that matter...

~Augee

I was waiting on my flight going west to Salerno.  All the M1911 and A1s I've been issued have been stock.  Oh, how I wish I was carrying a 1911 on this long deployment.  The SF Group gunsmiths were doing what ever modes the operator wanted within reason when I retired.  I'll get up with my son to see what modes he has on his 1911.

CD

I've seen a few references to a Springfield Armory Professional Model (PC9111MC) ordered by the Marines back in 2005.  Does anyone know more about this configuration?  From what I've been able to dig up it appears a standard dustcover SA Professional with the Pachmayr grips used on the MEUSOC pistol.  Curious whether it has the 20LPI frontstrap underneath the rubber grips - I'd expect it does as SA is pretty strict about the Professional specifications.

150 were ordered initially as an interim solution pending the availability of the Kimber Det. 1 ICQB, which in and of itself was an interim solution until PWS could catch up to demand.  

Initially, they were reported to be too tight, and were generally issued unaltered from the standard Professional besides the addition of the lanyard loop to the SA magwell.  

It appears however, that they are currently still in active service, and there is photographic documentation of at least one Pro that has been modified with the addition of a S&A flat checkered MSH with lanyard loop, King's ambi-thumb safety, and the addition of front cocking serrations at PWS.  I suspect that quite a few have been modified similarly in the last few years, and there is evidence that they are being fielded to combat units.



This photograph dated 22 AUG 2010 from Afghanistan appears to show a Professional, based on the S&A magwell coupled with the "Wilson-style" ambi safety, and distinctive Springfield "delta" hammer and "S&A-style" beavertail.  

There is also overwhelming evidence that Springfield Armory is now supplying complete pistols, not just top ends to the MSOBs, most likely out of the custom shop.  They appear to be almost identical in specs to the Professional, but with a parkerized finish, FCS, and lacking the magwell, recessed slide stop, and most likely the checkered front-strap (as they use Pachmayr grips), and have a "USMC" serial number prefix.  No indication yet of whether they're being built with the Springfield standard .38 Super firing pin like (I suspect) the Professionals were, or if they've been custom spec'ed to use .45 ACP firing pins like the slides PWS was buying.  

I have, however, seen a couple of recent photographs that clearly show "MSOB(SOC)MEU .45 ICQBP M45...." whatever the hell we're calling 'em nows with SA hammers, beavertails, and ambi-safeties (replacing C&S and Ed Brown parts as spec'ed in the Variant 5).  

Worthy of note is that I've begun seeing this this year, while last year MARSYSCOM  was seeking possible COTS pistols to supplement PWS pistols as USGI frame (from 1945) were beginning to wear out and PWS wad increasingly unable to keep up with the demand.  Nothing yet seems to have cropped up indicating that such a COTS contract has been fulfilled, however they've been known (original purchase of SA Pros/Kimber ICQB) to spec and purchase commercial pistols on a small scale to fill urgent shortages.  It's interesting, regardless, to see that a) MARSYSCOM and PWS seem to be quite happy with their continued relationship with Springfield Armory (slide purchases dating back to the early '90's at least, Springfield Pros, ect.) and b) that Kimber has not filled any further orders since the initial ICQB purchase.  

The MC Operator may in fact be the closest COTS pistol to the MEU(SOC) .45 at the present time.  Interesting as well that they continue to use standard dustcovers, again, since the ICQB and the discontinued Surefire IMPL, I've seen no real push to integrate a rail or a light into the M45 CQBP.  

Like I said, eventually, one of these days I'll finish this, but both the SA Pros and this "SA Variant 6" will be in there, as well as the Kimber ICQB and the M45 CQBP.

In the meantime, a request- has anyone seen and/or can provide photographic documentation of the Kimber ICQB in use, both current, or with Det. 1?  The only photographic documentation I've seen really is promotional and/or from the Pat Rogers article from several years back.  I have not, however, seen any other photographs of them in use while numerous pictures of other variants of the MEU(SOC)/M45 continue to pop up, as well as the SA pistols.  I realize that it's unlikely, given the small scale and secrecy of MARSOC Det. 1 that many public photographs exist of them in service, however, I'm having difficulty hunting down any positive indication that upon the dissolution of Det. 1, that the Kimbers continued to be used, whether by Recon or the MSOBs.  I would imagine that they rolled back into the MSOBs when Det. 1 was reabsorbed, but I don't have any documentation.  Given the small number of ICQBs, I don't expect them to be seen commonly, but I would think that there would be at least an inkling somewhere that they're still around, but so far, no photos, or even anecdotes of Kimbers still being in service.  

Similarly, this being applied to the SA pistols, given the amount of documentation there is of them, one can assume that there's a fairly good number of them out there, more than I had initially suspected.  

~Augee

Augee,

Excellent post - thanks for the additional information.  

There is an excellent reference on the formation of Det One available available here.  There are some photos, but only a few that show 1911s in use.  Pages 26-27 discuss the ICQB procurement.



However, I think there may have been two distinct procurements of the Professional for USMC use.  I had also read about the procurement of 50 Springfield Professionals by Marine Corps Systems Command for Det One use in 2003.  However, it appears that there was another order for 150 additional PC9111MC models in 2005.  I doubt these are related to the Det One procurement, as that unit was coming to the end of its proof of concept period and this is after the ICQB fielding.

MEU(SOC) 45 caliber pistols
General Information

Document Type: SNOTE
Posted Date: Feb 15, 2005
Category: Weapons
Set Aside: N/A

Contracting Office Address

Department of the Navy, United States Marine Corps, Marine Corps Systems Command, 2200 Lester Street, Quantico, VA, 22134-5010

Description
This is notice of intended sole-source procurement on behalf of the Marine Corps Systems Command (MCSC). The procurement is for Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU), SOC .45 caliber pistol posted in accordance with FAR 5.101(a)(1). The Marine Corps Systems Command (MARCORSYSCOM) intends to contract on a sole-source basis with Springfield Armory, 420 West Main Street, Geneseo, IL 61254 for MEU (SOC) .45 caliber pistol and associated packaging, marking and shipment. The following represents the governments intended parts list with quantities covered by this solicitation: (1) PC9111MC: Professional 1911-A1 .45ACR pistols Number: 150 The anticipated dollar amount is $284,850.00 Period of Performance: Date of Contract to 31 March 2005. FOB: Destination Delivery Point(s): 1. 75 pistols delivered to: DODAAC: MMSA01 Marine Corps Logistics Base Albany, GA Traffic Management Officer MCLB Bldg 1221 Dr 20 MF FSD MMSA01 Weapons Whse 1340 Dr 9 Albany, GA 31704-5000 Attn: Mr. Willie Harris, (229) 639-5533 2. 75 pistols delivered to: DODAAC: MMSA02 Marine Corps Logistics Base Barstow, CA DLA and G MF MMSA02 Bldg 625 WE Yermo Annex FSD MCLB Barstow, CA 92311-5048 Attn: Ms Jane Sloat or Mr. Tony Marquez Phone: 760-577-7345 Responsible sources capable of satisfying this requirement are encouraged to submit a statement of capability and costs, which, if timely received, will be considered. Information must be provided to the contact cited above not later than 3:00 PM (EST) 16 March 2005.

Original Point of Contact

Place of Performance

Address:
AS STIPULATED IN BODY OF ANNOUNCEMENT

Thanks for that reference, I'll definitely give it a good read through when I get the chance!  

I think you're correct about the numbers and timeframes for the Pro, as I said, I don't have all my references about me, which is why I haven't completed the whole thing yet .  

~Augee

Excellent info, Much thanks !

Now if I could just get my hands on one of these....

It is interesting to me that there are any variants of the Professional at all.  Talking to the Springfield Custom Shop, my understanding is that the Pro comes one way and one way only - as specified by the FBI.  The Custom Shop will make 1911s to order - such as the Custom Carry - but they don't bear the Professional rollmark even if they are built to the same standards.

Certainly curious to hear more about new Springfield Armory pistols entering military service.

im sure the military can get pretty much whatever they want, you as a civilian? not so much lol...but why isnt this stickied yet?!?

Does anyone know the correct height and width Millett front sight? Or even the part number?

im pretty sure its been discontinued...theres a few people who make a plain black sight thats pretty close though, and paired with the grizzly customs retro rear sight, you have a pretty good set of "meusoc clone sights"...

ETA: this guy  http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com/meusoc.html  says he uses a millet and makes his own rear, you might get a set from him...

It doesn't look like like too many changes were made to the Pro specs for the Marine buy, I think there was a rumor of some of them being parkerized, but the only evidence I've seen of that is a grainy scan from the Pat Rogers article on the Kimber ICQB, and it's inconclusive at best.  

Other than that, it would seem the only thing that changed from the standard Pro from the factory was the addition of the lanyard loop and the change of grips, though PWS has done some work to at least some of them.  That being said, whether it's a contract for fifty or one-hundred fifty, and if you the Marine Corps, and you ask Springfield to make some changes for your new SOF unit, I think they might give you a little bit more latitude in what changes they'll make to the Pro, versus if you or I were to call.  

I'm thinking of trying to contact the Custom Shop, and see if I can dig any information out of them as well.  

Side-note- Regrading the Millett sight, my understanding from Dave Berryhill is that the original MEU(SOC) .45s used a .213 front sight, because the rear sight was so tall, and they would be filed once installed.  Either way, the Millett front sights for the 1911 have all been discontinued, unfortunately, though I've considered having some made that match the profile of the Millett front sight using a Novak covetail, just to make installation easier and make them more accessible.  The old pre-Novak MEU(SOC) sights are pretty solid units, IMHO, pretty similar in look and function to the new 10-8 sights as well, though without a "U" notch.  

I've also just got permission from SWThomas over at 1911forum.com to use his photos that he was able to take of some M45 CQBPs, they show a great deal of detail:





A couple of great pictures of a Pro that's been well used and obviously reworked- the Smith and Alexander magwell is missing, and it looks like it's been replaced with a PWS made serrated mainspring housing.  King's Safety has been installed, and front cocking serrations milled in by PWS, and shredding the "Springfield Custom" logo.  Hard to tell because of the finish if it has the recessed slide stop pin, but the slide stop definitely looks like a replacement part, it doesn't have the same profile as Springfield's factory units.  Finish definitely looks like it was delivered in Black-T, and not parked, though.  I wish we could see the serial number more clearly and try to contact SA and see when it was made.  



Close-up of the PWS milled serrations, note they look different from Springfield's factory serrations.  



Still using the original Nowlin barrel as well.  With that being said, however, they have kept the factory hammer, and possibly the fire control parts, as well as the factory beavertail.  





Good pictures of a Variant 2 pistol without FCS and a BarSto barrel, whether they're the same barrels available commercially, or a special Marine Corps barrel like some have reported, the markings on the barrel are identical to commercially available barrels.  Note the stamping of the last four of the serial number as well.  It's clearly built on a USGI frame with a checkered mag release and wears the older Pachmayrs without the medallions, but they look in pretty good, near new condition, possibly NOS bench stock.  

Slide is the new style Springfield Armory with the logo at the front of the slide, and in fact looks to be in terrific condition compared to many photos of older variants.  Not sure if it's been recently refinished, or recently re-built which may explain it.  

And now to the real interesting ones:




A new variant, "Variant 6" which looks like a factory built Springfield Armory pistol.  You can clearly see the "USMC" serial numbered slide with Springfield Armory markings.  The slide is unlike anything offered on the commercial market, with factory narrow FCS in carbon steel, with Novak sights.  The sights appear to be genuine Novak, and not Springfield Armory, unlike the parts number and parts listings that we have seen in the last few years.  Also, it's difficult to determine whether they're night sights or standard black like on the Variant 4s, though the paint would seem to indicate not.  I'm assuming for the time being that the Pros shipped with the standard night sights, and the Kimber ICQB was spec'd with night sights.  



The barrel appears to be the standard Nowlin part installed in Springfield Custom pistols, and interestingly, unlike earlier variants, does not appear to have ever been blackened, nor has the bushing or barrel tip.  Also, the barrel hood does not seem to be stamped with the last four of the serial number.  

The ambi-safety is still the King's, but the hammer and beavertail are Springfield parts.  Same thing with the mag release, classic SA MIM part, down to the seams, but the slide stop looks like a USGI replacement.  The "fit and finish" looks very much like a Springfield Custom pistol as well, and the mainspring housing looks like an off the shelf checkered part, not the custom ground parts that PWS uses.  Slide stop hole is clearly not recessed.  Again, no way of knowing whether there's a .45 firing pin in there or a .38 Super, but generally speaking, it looks like something that you could (and I might ) order yourself from the Springfield Custom Shop.  This plus the photos that are popping up of what are clearly Springfield "delta" hammers and "Wilson-style" ambi-safeties downrange on MSOB pistols leads me to believe that MARCORSYSCOM has purchased a quantity of these pistols and put them into circulation, again, no indication of whether this is an interim thing, or if they've found their supplier for a COTS "M45."  

Also note that there's no rail, Dawson or otherwise, or any provision for a weapon mounted light.  The use of pistol mounted lights on the 1911s seems to have ended, note that it doesn't seem (considering that the 1994 dated TM mentions it as well) that weapon mounted lights have ever been authorized for use on the MEU(SOC) .45 or "M45" CQBP, though the ICQB specified them, and the Surefire 310R and 610R were popular for a while.  I haven't seen any recent photographs of any 1911s with lights mounted, and any of the non-railed frame lights available have all been discontinued anyways.  

Another note, and I'll get into it more later, but "M45" is in quotes because though it may be the way it's being referred to, it does not appear to be an "official" type-classified name in the "M" series like M4, M9, M11, ect.  

~Augee

I know they have been disccontinued, but I picked up a .200 wide serrated ramp Millet, and wanted to know if this was correct or if they used the wider .225

I did shoot sams an email previously, but he didn't have any to spare.

Dave Berryhill has been a great help to me and put up with all my stupid questions. I can't say enough good things about him, just wish the parts were still available for him to make me a clone.
I'm hoping to track down all the correct pieces and see if I can talk him into it

Thanks, and I'll check out the grizzly, I also had eyed the Harrison "retro" rear.

hell id say being within .025 is plenty close enough! lol...i like a thinner front sight and wider rear sight anyways....yes i bug dave from time to time with questions also, hes a stand up guy....the grizzly and harrison are the same i think, and the yost-bonitz? you wouldnt happen to be able to get any more of those front sights would you?

I've seen Millets pop up from time to time on GB.  I bought a .185" a few months ago, but haven't decided if I want to use that or shape an oversized Novak front sight.

Matt- if I do come across an extra sight I will let you know. I did find some kings ambi safety's, but they are SS not blued.

Does anyone know the correct size of the stamps used to stamp the various parts?

Great thread....needs a tack!

Anyone know where I could pick up a serrated flat MSH with lanyard loop for my MEU clone. I haven't been able to locate one.

http://www.smithandalexander.com/spr-housing.html

Hmmmmmm

Thanks to this thread, I'm ramping up to finally do a MEU-SOC build. I'll be using a Sistema Colt Modelo 1927 frame as a starting point. I figure it's old like the 1911A1 frames the USMC is using.

Where can I find a lanyard similar to the USMC style?

Excellent thread.  I was able to pick up one the Kimber ICQB pistols a few years back.  I never did send it to Dawson for the rail.
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for the serrated flat msh ,give caspianarms a call,i just ordered 2 of them yesterday. i was told by the sales guy that they are mainly made for gov.contracts,but that they did still have a few left for sale. just make sure that you order the carbon steel version and not the stainless steel model.i beleive that they were around $31.00

my caspian flat serrated msh with lanyard loop came today which was quick!!  the part number is R42FBL     now if i could only track down a slide from a parkerized loaded model,i could finaly complete my new version meusoc build

another piece to the puzzle

Clark beavertail...

Those measurements indicate the sight's height not it's width.

I wouldn't mess up a Sistema Colt to make a MEU-SOC build, but if you just happen to have the frame, knock yourself out.

The lanyards are usually Gemtech breakaways. You can find those, or the similar Blackhawk lanyards, at most any gear shop online.

I ment that, for some reason I was thinking the size of the tenon and got messed up.

So witch is the correct height?

Nice score on the Clark Matt, I found a SS Clark myself and a Kings safety. I have all the parts, just looking to pick up a Mil-Spec to use as a base gun.

thanks...hey could you send me some pics of the kings ambi? side and looking down views?

Matt-

Figure I'd just post them here incase others want a look.





The Caspian is the closest in production safety I have found to match the Kings.
LINK

thanks! yeah i noticed the caspian was pretty close, but i couldnt find any good pics of the kings to compare...

Does anyone know how much a Kings #201-A would go for?  I have a used blue one that is with the package that I am going to sell, but I don't know what they go for since they don't make them anymore?

Thanks!