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Link Posted: 2/10/2010 5:03:37 PM EDT
I read it and my whole question is so?

I have done numerous MEU deployments over the years and much of the thread are people who don't what MEUs are, don't know what a MEU SOC was. Notice, was because they don't exist anymore.


Link Posted: 2/10/2010 5:04:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
I would have had no issue carrying a HK45 when I was in the sand box. But I loved my 1911 that I carried I wish I still had it even with it missing 50% of its finish it never failed me once unlike my M9 which was a piece of shit.


When did it fail? A pistol failing in a fire fight normally means you die.
Link Posted: 2/10/2010 5:27:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
I read it and my whole question is so?

I have done numerous MEU deployments over the years and much of the thread are people who don't what MEUs are, don't know what a MEU SOC was. Notice, was because they don't exist anymore.




The point I was making was the winds are a changing. Your point is they already have, I was simply pointing the direction the wind was a blowing. Thank You for your service, sure didn't mean to rough your feathers.

Link Posted: 2/10/2010 6:09:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/10/2010 6:30:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Future Meusoc link


I'll buy a HK 45 when they put a push button magazine release on it. For some reason, I am able to activate the magazine release with my trigger finger (I am right handed) on HK USPs. The P30 and HK 45 are no different. It does look like it is a better pistol for the military though. The 1911 requires a lot of TLC to make it run right. Having said that, I have a 5" Kimber CDP that runs like a champ with ball ammo. I won't give it up for anything else. I love 1911s, and I refuse to run anything else right now in .45 ACP. I do like my XDM 9 mm though, but not as much as the 1911.

This is a damn good thread about the Marine's 1911 variant. Let's not get off topic and bicker over stupid crap.
Link Posted: 2/10/2010 7:52:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/akim85/M45%20CQC/bbarrel.jpg

Missing something really important from the barrel?


I'm sorry...what was the purpose of this post?
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 1:30:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 1:30:17 AM EDT by themao]
Originally Posted By artsohc:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/akim85/M45%20CQC/bbarrel.jpg

Missing something really important from the barrel?


I'm sorry...what was the purpose of this post?


Artsohc: I think he's referring to the missing barrel link. I was taken aback by it as well. Perhaps I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 5:35:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 5:36:08 AM EDT by SlightlySkewed]
Originally Posted By themao:
Originally Posted By artsohc:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/akim85/M45%20CQC/bbarrel.jpg

Missing something really important from the barrel?


I'm sorry...what was the purpose of this post?


Artsohc: I think he's referring to the missing barrel link. I was taken aback by it as well. Perhaps I'm missing something.


BINGO!
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 11:59:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Originally Posted By themao:
Originally Posted By artsohc:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/akim85/M45%20CQC/bbarrel.jpg

Missing something really important from the barrel?


I'm sorry...what was the purpose of this post?


Artsohc: I think he's referring to the missing barrel link. I was taken aback by it as well. Perhaps I'm missing something.


BINGO!


marines dont need no stinkin barrel link!
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 2:04:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Yep, as they are using up the M45s they are being replaced with M9a1s. If it were not for budgetary concerns the M9a1 would be on the short list now. According to my source, my son who is an Army Infantryman Operator. Soccom units are running HK45s and have been for some time.


I think your source is wrong. I've been working in A'Stan since 2004 and in all that time I've seen Army guys with Berrettas, Sigs, and Glocks, but only one single individual with an HK, and he never shot it because he couldn't get ammo for it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 3:20:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
I would have had no issue carrying a HK45 when I was in the sand box. But I loved my 1911 that I carried I wish I still had it even with it missing 50% of its finish it never failed me once unlike my M9 which was a piece of shit.


When did it fail? A pistol failing in a fire fight normally means you die.


It failed about 20K from Baghdad. I did not die because I had the best backup to my M9 anyone can ever ask for another MARINE!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 8:53:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES_45:
I would have had no issue carrying a HK45 when I was in the sand box. But I loved my 1911 that I carried I wish I still had it even with it missing 50% of its finish it never failed me once unlike my M9 which was a piece of shit.


When did it fail? A pistol failing in a fire fight normally means you die.


It failed about 20K from Baghdad. I did not die because I had the best backup to my M9 anyone can ever ask for another MARINE!!!!!!


yeah for real, like you were out there by yourself
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:09:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 10:15:26 PM EDT by 1911smith]
Originally Posted By jtb0311:
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Yep, as they are using up the M45s they are being replaced with M9a1s. If it were not for budgetary concerns the M9a1 would be on the short list now. According to my source, my son who is an Army Infantryman Operator. Soccom units are running HK45s and have been for some time.


I think your source is wrong. I've been working in A'Stan since 2004 and in all that time I've seen Army guys with Berrettas, Sigs, and Glocks, but only one single individual with an HK, and he never shot it because he couldn't get ammo for it.


He hasn't been to A'Stan yet. He's done two tours in the sandbox, 1st Calvary. In 16 months they have orders for Afghanistan. He'll be there if he re-enlists. That said two tours is enough and I pray he won't. I can't speak for the Sig's. Someone else will have to. I can give some imput to the Glocks. Our Government bought the Iraqi Army Glocks. They didn't all make it to the Iraqi Army, instead the black market and sold to civilians. Which have been confiscated and carried by our guys. Who trust them a lot more than the M9a1s. My son carried one he'd confiscated while living on a Iraqi base. Once he was reassigned to an American base the Glock got lost.

ETA: The SOCCOM forces he refers to carrying HKs are Navy.

Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:21:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By jtb0311:
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Yep, as they are using up the M45s they are being replaced with M9a1s. If it were not for budgetary concerns the M9a1 would be on the short list now. According to my source, my son who is an Army Infantryman Operator. Soccom units are running HK45s and have been for some time.


I think your source is wrong. I've been working in A'Stan since 2004 and in all that time I've seen Army guys with Berrettas, Sigs, and Glocks, but only one single individual with an HK, and he never shot it because he couldn't get ammo for it.


He hasn't been to A'Stan yet. He's done two tours in the sandbox, 1st Calvary. In 16 months they have orders for Afghanistan. He'll be there if he re-enlists. That said two tours is enough and I pray he won't. I can't speak for the Sig's. Someone else will have to. I can give some imput to the Glocks. Our Government bought the Iraqi Army Glocks. They didn't all make it to the Iraqi Army, instead the black market and sold to civilians. Which have been confiscated and carried by our guys. Who trust them a lot more than the M9a1s. My son carried one he'd confiscated while living on a Iraqi base. Once he was reassigned to an American base the Glock got lost.

ETA: The SOCCOM forces he refers to carrying HKs are Navy.




My friend who is a Navy Seal Corp Man for a Marine Recon Unit, ill find out which one, says that there are marines that are carriny Berettas, sig 226, which has a different model number in the military i guess and The commanding officer has a Glock 17, and they gave him the choice between a sig and beretta.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:26:10 PM EDT
I'd be curious to know which model Sig they're using.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:35:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 10:43:07 PM EDT by MattNificent]
its the 228 isnt it? only with some mk something mod something military designation...

edit: 228 = M11...
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 10:45:21 PM EDT
TAG for more great info.
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 6:45:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2010 6:47:18 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
Only once did I ever interact with the Marines and that was at Panama City during a requal. We were using the same Combatant Diver Facility, so I have no knowlegde of their .45 use. In 5th and 10th SFGA in Iraq the standard pistol is the M9 however we did take a large number of standard M1911A1s out of depot at the beginning in 03' (I know because I signed for 250+ to escort over). Some of those guns have been worked over by the battalion armorers and I carried one along side my M9. My son is currently carring a cocked and locked 1911A1 in Iraq with 10th. Detachment guys choose based on their experince which they prefer. During my deployments to Iraq only saw one SEAL carry the Mk 23, others carried the 226. The M11 are few in number and are assigned to the CI members in the S2 shop. Did see at least 20 members of 20th SFGA carry the Mk 23 one year (05') in Iraq. Here in Astan during the last 8 months, 20th and 3rd SFGA all seem to be carrying the M9. AFSOC all carry the M9 but one other unit in USSOCOM did have G19s/23s.

CD
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 2:52:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By d90king:
Personally If I wanted one it would be a LAV build... Though I have heard I believe Rodgers and Phillips also have done a couple of very nice ones...
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/Vickers1911SAbase-1.jpg


My Ron Phillips has been flawless. It ran through several carbine/pistol classes; typically 200+ rounds in the AZ desert. I never actually threw it into the sand, but sand was constantly being introduced into the weapon when spent mags were ejected onto the ground, reloaded and reinserted, not to mention the lovely desert wind and rolling around in it a bit. The only issue would be some stiffness when breaking down the pistol for cleaning, especially the bushing. The pistol has essentially match grade components and fitting.

I'd like to know how many folks are carrying more than 200 pistol rounds in combat, and whether anyone can envision a scenario calling for more than that in sandy conditions. I am pleaed to hear folks in Iraq and Astan are utilizing 1911s successfully. I recognize that Glock or HK may be more reliable theoretically,, but it seems the 1911 has passed the practical test.



Link Posted: 3/17/2010 9:17:37 PM EDT
Tag for more info
Link Posted: 3/17/2010 11:17:17 PM EDT
great post. this needs to be tacked.
Link Posted: 3/28/2010 10:34:14 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 5:54:35 PM EDT
Bump to keep out of the archives and remind myself to finish it...

~Augee
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 6:09:10 PM EDT
it needs to be stickied...
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 6:30:06 PM EDT
This is teh awesomez.
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 7:26:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Augee:
Bump to keep out of the archives and remind myself to finish it...

~Augee


Seriously, stop screwing around already
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 8:15:18 PM EDT
Meh, he's off in the retro forum writing dissertations on Colt 723s and 727s...
Link Posted: 5/10/2010 10:30:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2010 10:34:39 PM EDT by ronin275]
I have had this set up for a long time. Shoots great. This pre dates a Meu Soc. This is a exact copy of the one I carried in the Ranger Battalion when I was there. Those were the JSOC days before SOCOM.



RLTW
Link Posted: 5/11/2010 11:22:27 PM EDT
<––––––- This guy is MEUSOC Qualified!!

Twice!!!


Only saw the 1911's a few times, but never got to finger one, they looked like chrome guns they were so used!
Link Posted: 5/15/2010 11:42:58 PM EDT
is this not gonna get stickied?
Link Posted: 5/18/2010 4:56:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2010 4:58:29 PM EDT by palerider1775]


Beautiful pics.

The reason I carry a 1911 is because if it's good enough for those Marines, then it's good enough for this one!
Link Posted: 5/24/2010 1:46:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2010 1:47:02 PM EDT by Mike92GT]
Might as well throw in a pic of my Sams Custom MEU(SOC), just got it a few minutes ago. Link to info:http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com/meusoc.html
Link Posted: 5/27/2010 2:42:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2010 2:43:13 AM EDT by mlin]
Mike92GT,

You got a beautiful MEUSOC replica. Do yours use Caspian frame and slide? I am surprised that SAMS still have Kings Ambi Safety and Clark Grip Safety for your build. Thanks for sharing the photo. Would you mind adding a few more photos from the other side and barrel markings etc?
Link Posted: 5/27/2010 5:32:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2010 5:33:07 AM EDT by Mike92GT]
Originally Posted By mlin:
Mike92GT,

You got a beautiful MEUSOC replica. Do yours use Caspian frame and slide? I am surprised that SAMS still have Kings Ambi Safety and Clark Grip Safety for your build. Thanks for sharing the photo. Would you mind adding a few more photos from the other side and barrel markings etc?


Thanks! It is a Caspian frame / slide. It does also have the real-deal Kings safety and Clark grip safety as you noticed. Am not sure if Dave still has these though, my gun was built around 2006-2007 I believe. Here are a few more pics







Link Posted: 5/27/2010 3:28:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 7:39:19 PM EDT by cyclicyouth]
...
Link Posted: 5/29/2010 9:11:57 PM EDT
mike,your meusoc looks great!!!! any plans on using a surefire 310r or 610r?
Link Posted: 5/29/2010 9:35:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By accurange:
mike,your meusoc looks great!!!! any plans on using a surefire 310r or 610r?


Thanks! I'm real happy with it. I hadn't planned on adding the Surefire, but I might look into it and see if i can track one down.

Link Posted: 5/29/2010 9:49:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2010 9:52:16 PM EDT by Mike92GT]
No better place for this pic I suppose. MEU(SOC) twins, my Dave Sams build on the top, and a buddy's Dave Berryhill build on the bottom. The Berryhill was built on a Colt Series 70. They are similar, yet distinctly different.
Link Posted: 6/3/2010 12:24:02 PM EDT
Is it too late to TAG this?

Link Posted: 6/3/2010 12:45:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By echozulu:
Is it too late to TAG this?



No.
Link Posted: 6/4/2010 4:31:59 PM EDT
WOW,
those Sam's guns are incredibly good looking
Link Posted: 6/30/2010 10:57:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2010 11:16:30 AM EDT by Augee]
Some slightly old news (dated a few months ago) at The Firearm Blog regarding another RFI (Request for Information) suggesting that MARSYSCOM is looking for up to 4,000 COTS pistol to replace aging MEU(SOC) .45s.

http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2010/03-March/19-Mar-2010/FBO-02095403.htm

Interestingly enough, the request specifically requests an integral MIL-STD 1913 rail interface, unlike the drawings that were released last year sourcing a non-railed frame. Particularly considering that there is little, if any documentation of more "modern" weapon lights being used with the MEU(SOC) .45 or the M45. Most documentation seems to indicate that the now discontinued Surefire (Laser Devices) 310 and 610R are still in use as well as the similarly discontinued M series light used on the ICQB, both of which share the fact that they use propriety mounting systems and are no longer in production, a MIL-STD 1913 rail would allow the use of lights such as the Surefire X300 or perhaps even a modification of the AN/SU-233 VBL III (Insight M3X) issued with the SOPMOD Block 2 package.

Another interesting item is that the un-official official nomenclature seems to have shifted again from M45 CQC to M45 MEUSOC pistol, though the heading for the proposal on FBO seems to be designated "M45 MEUSCOC" (pronounced "moose-cock?"). Apparently "MEUSOC .45" has become enough of the lexicon that despite it's questionable relevance the name will continue to stick.

Regarding what should be considered "modern reliability standards," apparently MCSC has determined that an MRBS of 300 rounds and an MRBF of 5,000 rounds is a sufficient benchmark. The M4 was also required to have a minimum MRBS of 600 rounds and MRBF of 3,800 though PEO Soldier reports that their testing rates the current product improved M4 Carbine with an MRBS of 3,592 rounds and MRBF of 6,076, so the MRBS/F standards in the RFI should be considered a minimum acceptable reliability, not an indication of the true reliability of the platform.

Also, the RFI seems puts some emphasis on parts interchangeability, no doubt to prevent having to have pistols returned to PWS Quantico for fitting of replacement parts as MARSOC continues to expand. Note as well that the request does not require or specify that the pistol be an M1911 style item, though it does request COTS, and through implication, the only currently produced pistols that meet the requirement are 1911 types, however, given the request, hypothetically speaking, something like a Springfield Armory XD modified to use 1911 magazines or a modified SIG 220, would fit the requirements -

- Use single stack seven round magazine, preferably Wilson 47 magazines already in use
- Grip Safety
- Ambidextrous Manual Safety
- Last Round Slide Lock
- ~5 lb. trigger pull
- Beveled Magazine Well
- Lanyard Ring

Not that I would want such a thing, mind you, I think a good, tightly produced 1911 would fit the bill best, but it's still a possibility.

Some of the specific questions "the government" asks are interesting as well -

1. If the to-be-published Request for Proposal requires bid samples (estimated to be seven pistols, 6 magazines per pistol, operator and maintainer manuals), are you willing to provide at no cost to the government?
4.What is the market acceptance of your pistol? How long has it been in production? How many units, by year, have been sold? What agencies use your pistol?
5.If you warranty your pistol, what are the terms? How much warranty work is done on candidate pistols? What are the top four warranty issues?
8.If the MCSC changed to a Contractor Logistics Support strategy, how would you propose to support your pistol? Could you perform a depot level rebuild of your pistol? If so, how many per month could you process? Do you have an estimated cost range to perform rebuild?

Final note -

Though it seems that one could think of several COTS pistols that could fit these requirements with few modifications, the only respondent listed as an interested vendor on FBO that appears to have responded by the 16 APR date is Karl Lippard -

http://www.karllippard.com/index.html

On the other hand, one could imagine slightly modified variants of, at very least, the Springfield Armory MC Operator, Kimber Warrior, or a Series 70 Colt Rail Gun fitting the bill as well. Perhaps a mock-up or two is in order? An MC Operator in a parked finish with a lanyard loop MSH and IUID tag would be interesting. Shite, maybe time to build another pistol?

Important to note is that this again is a request for information and not for proposals, i.e. there is no indication that MCSC will actually purchase any items, as a matter of fact, they seem to be asking vendors to simply give them some without any guarantee on purchases.

Anyways, that's all I got for now! But more updates to come, I swear!

~Augee

Link Posted: 6/30/2010 6:30:32 PM EDT
Good info
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:25:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 7:46:43 PM EDT by machinehead]
thankgs Augee, great stuff. im just getting into .45's myself. I see pictures of repos made with the USGI style slide with just the vertical rear serations. I would bet the earliest versions were produced with USGI slides. I have seen mo picture with an actual one though. i have an extra slide laying around that would work. im guessing i would have to go with the earliest version and finding the kings safety and clark grip safety will prove to be a little task. i have read to that the millet sight is also discontinued. the rar i can make. any leads on the hard to find parts?

also is there a tech manual online for this pistol?
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 9:29:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 9:39:29 PM EDT by StarchedCover]
Yes, in the bad old days (pre MEU) it was known as MAU - Marine Amphibious Unit; and I got to make my share of "floats" assigned to 38th MAU (Carib), 32nd and 24th MAU (Med). When on float we were usually assigned to the LSU (Logistic Support Unit) or later known as the MSSG (MAU Service Support Group) as 2nd FORREC was part of 2nd FSSG not 2nd MARDIV, RECON BN (the Onslow Beach crowd) was assigned to 2nd MARDIV.
But enough of ancient history.........loved the pistol, an old familiar friend, and if I needed to go in harm's way again it'd be part of my kit; it always worked.
OP nicely written, informative some great pictures.
So do we get one built or do I get a SA MC Operator (or don't pay the kid's tuition this fall and get the SA Professional.......LOL).
Starched Cover
Semper Fi
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 9:59:59 PM EDT
This is one of the best posts I have ever read. Thank you for posting this. In the photo marked Variant 4, are you sure those guys arent Thai or Phillipino marines? Are you positive they are USMC? If so what camo pattern are these guys wearing, I have never seen it.
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 3:16:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
This is one of the best posts I have ever read. Thank you for posting this. In the photo marked Variant 4, are you sure those guys arent Thai or Phillipino marines? Are you positive they are USMC? If so what camo pattern are these guys wearing, I have never seen it.


www.usmc.mil


DatePhotoTaken: 1/19/2005 12:10:00 AM
Byline: Sgt. Mike Camacho
Unit: Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps
Caption: 051018-M-9336C-004 CLARK AIR BASE, Republic of the Philippines - Philippine force reconnaissance Marines fire on targets using M1911A1 .45 caliber pistols while U.S. recon Marines observe and assist at Clark Air Base Oct. 18. Service members with Philippine Air Force and Marine Corps trained with the U.S. Marines with Deep Reconnaissance Platoon, 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit. The live-fire training is part of the bilateral exercise Talon Vision. (Official U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Mike Camacho)(released)
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 9:05:42 AM EDT
Thanks for clearing that up. We jumped with the phillipino's back at bragg when I was in and the uniforms rang a bell. In augees pic I dont recall seeing any of out guys in the shot. Thanks again
c
Link Posted: 7/9/2010 12:36:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2010 12:36:33 PM EDT by m14elite]
this thread has inspired me. I will post pictures when I am done.
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