Posted: 8/6/2009 2:20:01 PM EDT
| What do you get between a 1k 1911 and a 2k one? I mean better sights but what else or is it just name? |
|
Generally, a $1000 pistol will have the same sights as a $2000 pistol. Actually, a $1000 pistol will usually have the same modifications that a $2000 pistol will have as well, but the quality of the parts will be considerably higher on the $2000 pistol and the fit and finish put into it will be higher as well. The finish on the gun will most likely be nicer and the barrel will usually be a match grade vs. a normal one piece SS barrel.
If you have the $2000 and are wondering if it's smarter to buy a $1000 from a cost/benefit outlook, the $2000 gun is the way to go. I would much rather have one Springfield Professional than 2 or 3 normal 1911s. |
| A lot of the 2K priced ones are made to be acurate at 50 yards for competition (so it includes better parts and custom work) . A 1000th of an inch of slack can throw off your group 3/4" at 50 yards so they need to have tight tolerances so they are not usually line production guns. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would much rather have one Springfield Professional than 2 or 3 normal 1911s. Me too, well maybe Ok, how about one Ed Brown 1911 over 2-3 normal 1911s?  I did buy a Les Baer too. 
After thinking about the OP's question for the extra 1k I got what I wanted and I dont have any feeling of need to change anything out. No MIM, no fitting a better extractor etc. Better accuracy, better trigger, real craftsmanship and a good bluing job. I used to keep close to a dozen production 1911's at a time. None of them really made me not want for something better. I filled that feeling with what I have and sold off the regular production pieces to fund ammo and reloading components to feed my new favorites. I just hope I dont feel the need to start buying Burtons and Brians. 
|
|
A Valor is a hard gun to find, I think it is probably one of the best sub $2000 tactical 1911s around. I'd put it on par if not a little ahead of a TRP.
That said, there is a reason a DW Valor costs what it does compared to a CQB. CZ wouldn't be able to sell Valor's for $2000. |
|
Quoted:
I'll take a Wilson, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk or Springield Pro over a production 1911 any day of the year.  How do you define "custom" versus something that is not? Is a Wilson, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc a semi-custom, or full spec custom? What about something that the a smith builds up from just a frame and slide? Would this be 100% custom? |
|
Ill go against the grain here.
I had a Les Baer Concept VIII. It was a nice piece but due to tight tolerances it was finicky about the ammo it would shoot. It was also a bitch to tear down and clean. And then you have the fact its an expensive gun so you more careful on how you handle it, etc. I sold it and got a SpringField Loaded, it shoots anything I put in it and take down is a breeze. I actually like shootin it better than I did my Les Baer. I havent tried any other high end 1911s but I think ill just stick with the SA line of 1911s for now. |
|
Quoted:
A Valor is a hard gun to find, I think it is probably one of the best sub $2000 tactical 1911s around. I'd put it on par if not a little ahead of a TRP. That said, there is a reason a DW Valor costs what it does compared to a CQB. CZ wouldn't be able to sell Valor's for $2000. I think this was a good answer about the fact that CZ needs to build the Dan Wesson name to the point where they can command $2K for a Valor. That being said, I'm thinking the Valor, based on hand work and parts, is in quite a bit better class than comparably priced guns. It may not be as good as a $2000 - $2500 Ed Brown or Wilson CQB in terms of the craftsmen that build it and the quality control program that ensures top tier performance, but with all the hand work it seems kind of a bargain at $1350. Commercial pic for those not familiar with it: 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
A Valor is a hard gun to find, I think it is probably one of the best sub $2000 tactical 1911s around. I'd put it on par if not a little ahead of a TRP. That said, there is a reason a DW Valor costs what it does compared to a CQB. CZ wouldn't be able to sell Valor's for $2000. I think this was a good answer about the fact that CZ needs to build the Dan Wesson name to the point where they can command $2K for a Valor. That being said, I'm thinking the Valor, based on hand work and parts, is in quite a bit better class than comparably priced guns. It may not be as good as a $2000 - $2500 Ed Brown or Wilson CQB in terms of the craftsmen that build it and the quality control program that ensures top tier performance, but with all the hand work it seems kind of a bargain at $1350. Commercial pic for those not familiar with it: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo266/alschrec/ValorIII.jpg I'd agree, but I have looked up and down for a Valor over the past month on gunbroker and other websites and for the most part $1600 has been the name of the game. I just bought a TRP for $1400 and while I believe the DW is worth the $1600 they are fetching, they aren't selling for $1350 anywhere I can find them. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A Valor is a hard gun to find, I think it is probably one of the best sub $2000 tactical 1911s around. I'd put it on par if not a little ahead of a TRP. That said, there is a reason a DW Valor costs what it does compared to a CQB. CZ wouldn't be able to sell Valor's for $2000. I think this was a good answer about the fact that CZ needs to build the Dan Wesson name to the point where they can command $2K for a Valor. That being said, I'm thinking the Valor, based on hand work and parts, is in quite a bit better class than comparably priced guns. It may not be as good as a $2000 - $2500 Ed Brown or Wilson CQB in terms of the craftsmen that build it and the quality control program that ensures top tier performance, but with all the hand work it seems kind of a bargain at $1350. Commercial pic for those not familiar with it: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo266/alschrec/ValorIII.jpg I'd agree, but I have looked up and down for a Valor over the past month on gunbroker and other websites and for the most part $1600 has been the name of the game. I just bought a TRP for $1400 and while I believe the DW is worth the $1600 they are fetching, they aren't selling for $1350 anywhere I can find them. I cant comment much on the Valor other than the whole sample of ONE that I saw at Cabelas and it stickered for $1599 IIRC. I had to check it out, my friend swares Ed Brown makes them. It looked pretty good but I got to compare it as best as you can at a gunshop to a Brown Special Forces. I went home and ordered the Brown Executive Elite and would do it all over again. I would say though the Valor is a bargain if you have a MIMphobia otherwise I still find the TRP a hard to beat value in 1911's. |
|
I have both a $1k pistol (Kimber Gold Match) and a $2k pistol (Ed Brown Special Forces)...
Both feel good in the hand, but the Brown has more TLC and fitting time (in the critical areas) given to it. They have a higher-rise grip safety to sink the gun as far as possible down... I really like both guns but the Brown feels solid. It carries well, and has a better finish (Gen III) on it. Better sights (Kimber - adjustable Novak copies, Brown - Trijicon wedge type night sights), better features (there's no play in the slide/barrel lockup, but it's not so tight like a Baer is), better pretty much everything. No MIM in the Brown if that's a concern. If I got the sights replaced on the Kimber I'd probably shoot it more. It's a good gun, but the Brown is just that much better. JMHO from someone who's got both. My dad has the same Kimber I do and he has shot the heck out of it with no issues other than a strange little thing with fouling in the firing pin tunnel. It wouldn't fire (thank God it didn't freeze up in the firing pin FORWARD position!), so he took it apart and cleaned it out. This was after probably 4 or 5k rounds. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A Valor is a hard gun to find, I think it is probably one of the best sub $2000 tactical 1911s around. I'd put it on par if not a little ahead of a TRP. That said, there is a reason a DW Valor costs what it does compared to a CQB. CZ wouldn't be able to sell Valor's for $2000. I think this was a good answer about the fact that CZ needs to build the Dan Wesson name to the point where they can command $2K for a Valor. That being said, I'm thinking the Valor, based on hand work and parts, is in quite a bit better class than comparably priced guns. It may not be as good as a $2000 - $2500 Ed Brown or Wilson CQB in terms of the craftsmen that build it and the quality control program that ensures top tier performance, but with all the hand work it seems kind of a bargain at $1350. Commercial pic for those not familiar with it: http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo266/alschrec/ValorIII.jpg I'd agree, but I have looked up and down for a Valor over the past month on gunbroker and other websites and for the most part $1600 has been the name of the game. I just bought a TRP for $1400 and while I believe the DW is worth the $1600 they are fetching, they aren't selling for $1350 anywhere I can find them. I cant comment much on the Valor other than the whole sample of ONE that I saw at Cabelas and it stickered for $1599 IIRC. I had to check it out, my friend swares Ed Brown makes them. It looked pretty good but I got to compare it as best as you can at a gunshop to a Brown Special Forces. I went home and ordered the Brown Executive Elite and would do it all over again. I would say though the Valor is a bargain if you have a MIMphobia otherwise I still find the TRP a hard to beat value in 1911's. Just bought one for $1355 from Big Sky guns so it is possible to get pretty close to $1350. Did have to keep my eye out for a couple of weeks for something in stock at a decent price. Couple of quick items: - They are not made by Ed Brown but they include some Ed Brown parts. Quite a few EB parts from what I've read. - I'm sort of OK with MIM for some things but some of the gunsmiths on here have reported a higher failure rate than non-MIM and I defer to their expertise. - I like the finish and looks of the Valor better than the TRP. Also I believe there to be a significant difference in handwork like fitting and dehorning on the Valor. Someone more informed is welcome to correct me on this. Finally.. since I just now bought one (between my first post on this thread and now) you guys can't say anything bad about it. It will be a few weeks (paid by check to avoid 3% on CC) before it arrives. Will absolutely, positively post pics and a range report. |
|
This is information I collected in comparing a Valor to a TRP. It has mistakes, omissions, commissions, and other issues. Some of it is likely correct though.
Dan Wesson Valor_________________________ Springfield TRP Adjustable night sights__________________Drift adjustable night sights Forged slide and frame__________________Forged slide and frame Hand fit barrel / slide / frame______________Hand fit barrel / slide / frame De-horn______________________________De-horn Small parts polished and fitted_____________Dunno Trigger job 4-5 lbs (4.5 lbs reported)________Trigger job 4-5lbs (5.5 lbs reported in review) Single side EB thumb safety_______________Ambidextrous Springfield thumb safety EB thumb safety, slide stop, grip safety______Springfield thumb safety, slide stop, grip safety Greider trigger__________________________Springfield trigger Wolff springs___________________________Dunno DW match barrel and bushing______________Springfield match barrel 25 lpi checkering________________________20 lpi checkering Cerakote finish over stainless______________Stainless or Black Armory Koat Hand fitted / blended extractor (per review)___Drop in extractor (per review) Undercut trigger guard____________________Regular trigger guard VZ Grips_______________________________Checkered cocobola grips or G10 No MIM (per review)______________________MIM slide stop, firing pin retaining plate, hammer, disconnector, sear and maybe the grip safety (per review) No front slide serrations___________________Front slide serrations Slide Markings: 'Valor'_____________________Slide Markings: Springfield Armory, TRP, TACTICAL, Coat of Arms, Model 1911A1 Cal .45 Frame Markings: Serial number______________Frame Markings: Springfield Armrory, Address, Serial No. Beveled magazine well____________________Two piece beveled magazine well No key safety___________________________ Key activated safety Best Gunwriter Accuracy: 1"@25yd_________Best Gunwriter Accuracy: 2.5"@25 yards Traditional bushing_______________________2 piece guide rod $1300 (Budsgunshop)____________________$1385 (Armory Kote, Budsgunshop) |
|
Spook, even those this is a thread about 1k and 2k 1911's not Valor vs TRP. But the TRP does in fact have a fitted extractor mine had the last 3 digits of the serial number scratched on it. I'd also like a link to see the 1" Valor groups. Id be real interested in buying one for my son if they have that kind of accuracy.
' |
|
Quoted:
Spook, even those this is a thread about 1k and 2k 1911's not Valor vs TRP. But the TRP does in fact have a fitted extractor mine had the last 3 digits of the serial number scratched on it. I'd also like a link to see the 1" Valor groups. Id be real interested in buying one for my son if they have that kind of accuracy. ' Waittafrigginminut belt.. somebody asked the difference between a Valor and a TRP. Besides, since when do we stay on topic around here? So while we're off in the bushes anyway:
This is a quote and link for the review with the 1" groups. It's on the second page of the review. Valor Review "When I moved back to 25 yards to check out the Valor's accuracy, I got some quick gratification. I started with Hornady's 185-grain XTP load, which promptly drilled a five-shot group that measured 0.95 inch. I thought it was luck, so I fired four more groups with the same load. The second group measured 0.93 inch, and the third measured 0.97 inch. The next two groups measured a little over an inch, but that load averaged an incredible 1.18 inches at 25 yards. That rivals the accuracy of the best pistols I've ever tested." Note that this was one load and the other loads didn't do this. Still, this is pretty impressive. This is the quote and link with the 'drop in extractor' review. Unlike the Valor review, this one is in the 1911 forum. Guy sounds like he's well informed but if it has your serial #, it was certainly hand fitted. Maybe his experience was an earlier model. Also looking at this now, he doesn't say it's a 'drop in' part.. just a loose fit. "The extractor is nicely radiused and functions as it is supposed to, but is very loose in the channel, a drop-in-out fit. It can rock slightly as the firing pin retaining plate is also a drop-in fit and needs to be peened to achieve a light press fit. easily adjusted extractor to fix. BTW, it is a forged part." Springfield Springfield TRP Review |
|
Baer, Brown, Wilson, et al, have been building guns consistently well, long enough that they have built a name for themselves. They are pretty much a known quantity on the 1911 market at this point.
Whether CZ/DW, Fusion, Doublestar, and other newcomers will attain the same success remains to be seen. While individual guns may be well built, the brands aren't well established yet. Personally, I also think having your name on the gun means you have a bit more skin in the game than if it were rollmarked with some random company name. At that point, it's your personal reputation on the line and it's not as easy to hide behind the company. |