[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 1911 requires customization? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:27:08 PM EDT
| I am looking to purchase a 1911 and was talking to a buddy about it. He said to get something polymer instead and not even both with a 1911 because to be as reliable as a glock or sig requires spending 2 grand on the pistol initially or putting a lot of custom work into in and ending up with a 2000 dollar pistol anyway that is still not quite as good as a pistol costing about 1/4 of that. I know I am talking to 1911 lovers right now, but in all honesty is this a fair assessment? If some customization is required, what are the upgrades that you would need to put into a springfield armory mil-spec right out of the box to make it shoot well? |
|
It isn't a fair assessment. You shouldn't have to spend $2000!
1911s are more complicated to build than the plastic fantastics, and at various times pretty much every manufacturer has had QC issues. Most make great products. In my own experience, Glocks, while very reliable, aren't the most accurate pistol out there. The list of upgrades available for a 1911 is as long as my arm - sights, trigger, grip safety, thumb safety, barrel, hammer... My suggestion for you is (if possible) go to a range that rents handguns and try out a few different 1911s to make sure it really is the right handgun for you. You might find that you are more comfortable with something else, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you decide you still want a 1911 and buy one, shoot it for a bit. If it meets your needs, fantastic! If there are deficiencies, come back to this thread and we (or at least me) can help you consider some improvements. Good shooting. |
| There are plenty of 1911's that you can go with other than the Mil-spec or GI. Personally I would recommend a STI spartan or a Thompson 1911 if that's the price range you are looking at. And no, you don't have to put 2 g's into a 1911 to have it run reliably. Sounds like your friend is a little biased. |
|
I grew tired quickly of poor the poor finish, poor grip fit, and poor trigger action on a Glock recently. I sold it and bought a 2007 Colt Commander 1991. It was $600 from the classifieds here. It has been easier to cc than the Glock (23), better fit and finish, and equally reliable and accurate.
Yes, you can spend $2k on a 1911. And you can spend that much on a Glock if you want tricking it out. You can also get crazy nice 1911s used about the same price as a new Glock. |
$269 plus tax, 1.5K of Wolf FMJ without a hiccup. I am willing to bet that if I polish the feed ramp that it will feed my favorite defensive ammo. You do not need a smith to make sure that much of what causes problems with 1911s is taken care of. Polish the feed ramp and breech face. Make sure the extractor is tuned properly and does not rotate in its hole due to a loose firing pin stop. Use good mags.
|
|
What works for you depends on YOUR needs and expectations. You have not given us enough information. For example, is your primary purpose a carry gun, a home defense gun, a competition gun (if so, what type of competition) or a range gun ? To some extent, also, you have come to the wrong place - when you ask 1911 enthusiasts if they like the 1911, don't be surprised if they respond with a resounding "YES... duhhhh". I hope I can give you a more balanced view:
20 years ago, your friend would have been right. The only games in town would have been (1) Colt, which were not well made at the time and likely would not run reliably out of the box with HP ammo, (2) one of a handful of low-end makers, such as Auto Ordnance (pre-Kahr), which also sucked, or (3) a really expensive custom/semi-custom gun. Nowadays, there is a huge selection fo really nice factory 1911s that offer all the REQUIRED features (high-ride beavertail, nice trigger, good sights etc.) at reasonable $$$, by which I mean less than $1000. Do not let anyone convince you that you need to spend $2000+ to get a gun like this. On the other hand, I strongly advise against buying a bargain-basement 1911 with standard features (no beavertail, standard trigger, GI sights)... they make for an inferior gun IMHO, unless of course you plan to build the gun up from there. With all of this said, I believe that the 1911 is not the best choice as a carry gun. I say this as someone who cut his teeth in IPSC competition 26 years ago with one of the last Colt Series 70 Govt. Models, and has shot some variant of the 1911 ever since. It is an outstanding platform for IPSC competition - great ergonomics, great accuracay potential, and a trigger that can be tuned down below 2lbs safely with no creep or overtravel - but it's just too heavy, too large, too fragile and too unreliable (even when nicely tuned by a custom smith) for civilian carry. Although I shoot a double-stack, plastic frame 1911 almost every week in IPSC competition, I still CCW a Glock 27... that should tell you all you need to know about what I have learned over the last quarter-century. The 1911 has a great deal of historical and aesthetic appeal - I totally get why people love them. I just cannot recommend one as a civilian carry gun. ETA: Sorry, I missed your question about upgrading a basic gun. I won a Springfield GI in a 3-gun match a few years ago. By raiding my parts bin and spending <$200 on additional parts, I was able to build it up into a very acceptable pistol. It shoots OK and I dig it out of the safe once or twice a year to shoot USPSA Single-Stack division: 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Buy a factory Colt and you will have a very nice, reliable 1911.  I'm not sure I agree with this advice - Colts do not offer anywhere near the performance:price ratio of other guns IMHO. This is in response to both of your entries. A 1911 can be an excellent choice for carry depending on carry method and personal preference. You say that a 1911 is too heavy for carry? That is your personal opinion, it has NOTHING to do with performance or function of the pistol. Not reliable enough for carry? My Colt 1991 has ONE malfunction that I can remember, and that was failure to return to full battery. With as much as I have shot it, I think that is pretty damn reliable. I have put my time in as an RSO, and I can also say I see a plethora of guns malfunctioning more than 1911's (XD's come to mind). It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. ETA: Before you get on it, I know their QC has sucked recently. That is easily beat though, just look over the gun when you pick it up, if you see problems, get another. |
| Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. Check it out, I am an avid Glock and 1911 shooter. The best advice I can give you is go out on the range and try it yourself. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. For a very long time now people have been carrying these fine pistols for everything from truck guns to combat sidearms. The track record speaks for itself. If you decide against it, I wish you the best luck. |
|
I was a Glock only shooter for many years, up until earlier this year when I discovered the 1911.
I bought a Springfield Loaded a few months ago and I love it. It hasn't had a single problem yet and I've shot all kinds of ammo through it. I haven't spent a dime on any thing for the gun other than ammo since I bought it. Granted, it did cost a little more initially than a basic polymer gun, but I get a lot more enjoyment out if it. I've also been hearing a lot of stories about reliability problems with the recent batches of Glocks, so you can run into trouble with any gun. Just make sure you have throughly tested any gun you buy for self defense, and are comfortable with it's reliability before you decide to trust your life to it. |
|
Quoted:
It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. Nope, no grudge. I was lucky to pick up a brand new late-model Series-70 in 1983, made before they butchered the design with the Series-80 firing pin block safety. It ran OK, but needed a lot of tweaking to run anything other than hard ball... this was par for the course and expected in those days. My comment about Colt today was meant to say that, while it may be nice to have the Colt name on the gun, you are paying a premium for that name... hence my comment about the performance:price ratio. There are better values out there in the 1911 world. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. Check it out, I am an avid Glock and 1911 shooter. The best advice I can give you is go out on the range and try it yourself. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. For a very long time now people have been carrying these fine pistols for everything from truck guns to combat sidearms. The track record speaks for itself. If you decide against it, I wish you the best luck. The only problem in the design is when companies that don't know what they are doing attempt to manufacture them, or cut corners in machining, metallurgy, etc. and produce weapons that don't work. If you add into the mix the 30,000 different magazine manufacturers you get the urban legends of malfunctioning 1911s. I use Colt 7 rounders with Wolff springs and don't experience malfunctions in any of my Colt 1911s. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. Nope, no grudge. I was lucky to pick up a brand new late-model Series-70 in 1983, made before they butchered the design with the Series-80 firing pin block safety. It ran OK, but needed a lot of tweaking to run anything other than hard ball... this was par for the course and expected in those days. My comment about Colt tpday was meant to say that, while it may be nice to have the Colt name on the gun, you are paying a premium for that name... hence my comment about the performance:price ratio. There are better values out there in the 1911 world. Haven't heard of MIM have you? |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. It sounds like one of your buying criteria is the emotional satisfaction that comes from owning a beautifully crafted gun with real history behind it. I think this is a strong driver behind the popularity of the 1911 in the US. I'm a Brit, so for me there is no such emotional attachment... its a tool and nothing more, and IMHO it is very well suited to some tasks (IPSC competition) and not so well suited to others (convenient civilian CCW). In your case, it may serve you well in the target shooting/range gun and the home-defense applications you have in mind. Give one a try... you will always be able to sell it if you don't like it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. It sounds like one of your buying criteria is the emotional satisfaction that comes from owning a beautifully crafted gun with real history behind it. I think this is a strong driver behind the popularity of the 1911 in the US. I'm a Brit, so for me there is no such emotional attachment... its a tool and nothing more, and IMHO it is very well suited to some tasks (IPSC competition) and not so well suited to others (convenient civilian CCW). In your case, it may serve you well in the target shooting/range gun and the home-defense applications you have in mind. Give one a try... you will always be able to sell it if you don't like it. Says you! Lots of us carry 1911s.
|
|
Quoted:
Haven't heard of MIM have you? Sure I have - I'm just not sure MIM parts are necessarily a bad thing. Again, I suspect this is more of an emotional/urban legend issue than reality. In any case, its easy enough to replace parts in a 1911 if you have some basic gunsmithing skills... see my example above. Oh, and there are plenty of good 1911s out there that do not use MIM parts if you really have a weed in your ass about this issue. I'm old enough to remember the "horror" of traditionalists when Glock came out with the plastic frame, and before that when SIG made slides from steel stampings  . What once seemed alien and "cheap and nasty" is now considered commonplace and the norm.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Haven't heard of MIM have you? Sure I have - I'm just not sure MIM parts are necessarily a bad thing. Again, I suspect this is more of an emotional/urban legend issue than reality. In any case, its easy enough to replace parts in a 1911 if you have some basic gunsmithing skills... see my example above. Oh, and there are plenty of good 1911s out there that do not use MIM parts if you really have a weed in your ass about this issue. I'm old enough to remember the "horror" of traditionalists when Glock came out with the plastic frame, and before that when SIG made slides from steel stampings . What once seemed alien and "cheap and nasty" is now considered commonplace and the norm.Kimber MIM breakage is legendary, and I'm not talking urban legend.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. Nope, no grudge. I was lucky to pick up a brand new late-model Series-70 in 1983, made before they butchered the design with the Series-80 firing pin block safety. It ran OK, but needed a lot of tweaking to run anything other than hard ball... this was par for the course and expected in those days. My comment about Colt today was meant to say that, while it may be nice to have the Colt name on the gun, you are paying a premium for that name... hence my comment about the performance:price ratio. There are better values out there in the 1911 world. See, that makes much more sense when you go into detail. I would hate for the OP to skip a chance to own a 1911 because you say they aren't reliable enough for carry. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Haven't heard of MIM have you? Sure I have - I'm just not sure MIM parts are necessarily a bad thing. Again, I suspect this is more of an emotional/urban legend issue than reality. In any case, its easy enough to replace parts in a 1911 if you have some basic gunsmithing skills... see my example above. Oh, and there are plenty of good 1911s out there that do not use MIM parts if you really have a weed in your ass about this issue. I'm old enough to remember the "horror" of traditionalists when Glock came out with the plastic frame, and before that when SIG made slides from steel stampings . What once seemed alien and "cheap and nasty" is now considered commonplace and the norm.Kimber MIM breakage is legendary, and I'm not talking urban legend. Maybe - I have no experience with Kimber. I removed all the MIM parts from my Springfield GI, not because I feared they might break, but because I wanted better functioning parts (match trigger/hammer/sear, beavertail etc.). |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. Nope, no grudge. I was lucky to pick up a brand new late-model Series-70 in 1983, made before they butchered the design with the Series-80 firing pin block safety. It ran OK, but needed a lot of tweaking to run anything other than hard ball... this was par for the course and expected in those days. My comment about Colt today was meant to say that, while it may be nice to have the Colt name on the gun, you are paying a premium for that name... hence my comment about the performance:price ratio. There are better values out there in the 1911 world. See, that makes much more sense when you go into detail. I would hate for the OP to skip a chance to own a 1911 because you say they aren't reliable enough for carry. I would say that there is a higher risk that any particular defensive HP load will not function 100% in a particular 1911 than with, say, a Glock. I'm not saying a 1911 can't be made to work, nor that you can't find a defensive HP load that will run in a 1911, but you definitely need to search carefully to find ammo that will work in a given 1911. Hard ball should work in any properly built 1911, yet I still see a lot of 1911s go down in IPSC matches. Look, everyone loves the 1911, but it is a design thats almost 100 years old. It is made from old-fashoned wood and steel, and requires EXTENSIVE hand fitting to be built right. Today's pistols are being designed in an era of 3D CAD, CNC machining and modern materials, and require no hand fitting to deliver equivalent or superior reliability, accuracy and firepower in a smaller. lighter package... they just make more sense for most people's CCW needs. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds like you have a grudge about Colt stemming from two decades ago. While you're argument carries some weight, it's 2009 now and I see no problem with picking up a Colt nowadays, yea their slide to frame fit leaves something to desire, but they are reliable guns. Nope, no grudge. I was lucky to pick up a brand new late-model Series-70 in 1983, made before they butchered the design with the Series-80 firing pin block safety. It ran OK, but needed a lot of tweaking to run anything other than hard ball... this was par for the course and expected in those days. My comment about Colt today was meant to say that, while it may be nice to have the Colt name on the gun, you are paying a premium for that name... hence my comment about the performance:price ratio. There are better values out there in the 1911 world. See, that makes much more sense when you go into detail. I would hate for the OP to skip a chance to own a 1911 because you say they aren't reliable enough for carry. I would say that there is a higher risk that any particular defensive HP load will not function 100% in a particular 1911 than with, say, a Glock. I'm not saying a 1911 can't be made to work, nor that you can't find a defensive HP load that will run in a 1911, but you definitely need to search carefully to find ammo that will work in a given 1911. Hard ball should work in any properly built 1911, yet I still see a lot of 1911s go down in IPSC matches. I carry 230 gr FMJ's in my daily carry, a G21SF (gasp). That is all I care to have because in all honesty I hate paying out of my ass for HP loads. That being said, I have shot HP through my Colt and Marvel without malfunctions. Look, everyone loves the 1911, but it is a design thats almost 100 years old. It is made from old-fashoned wood and steel, and requires EXTENSIVE hand fitting to be built right. Today's pistols are being designed in an era of 3D CAD, CNC machining and modern materials, and require no hand fitting to deliver equivalent or superior reliability, accuracy and firepower in a smaller. lighter package... they just make more sense for most people's CCW needs. All I get from this comment is that it is smarter for the companies out there to produce soulless plastic for a higher profit margin. And once again, you're personal opinion comes in. I gotta ask, what do you carry for CCW? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kimber MIM breakage is legendary, and I'm not talking urban legend. Lets see some statistics. If its not an urban legend, it must be documented somewhere. I would be interested in seeing stats showing what and how many MIM parts broke on Kimbers. I would be interested in this information also. I have owned three Kimbers that ran like Swiss watches right out of the box and I've never had a breakage of any kind. How about it Joe? Got a Link maybe? |
|
Quoted:
Look, everyone loves the 1911, but it is a design thats almost 100 years old. It is made from old-fashoned wood and steel, and requires EXTENSIVE hand fitting to be built right. Today's pistols are being designed in an era of 3D CAD, CNC machining and modern materials, and require no hand fitting to deliver equivalent or superior reliability, accuracy and firepower in a smaller. lighter package... they just make more sense for most people's CCW needs. All I get from this comment is that it is smarter for the companies out there to produce soulless plastic for a higher profit margin. And once again, you're personal opinion comes in. I gotta ask, what do you carry for CCW? Per my earlier post, I shoot 1911s in IPSC competition, but I carry a Glock 27 for CCW. I do so because it is MUCH lighter to carry, holds more rounds (that in my personal opinion are just as effective as your .45 hardball), is a smaller overall size, and I have 18 years experience running Glocks along side 1911s that tells me the Glock is more reliable. Oh, and the Glock is half the price of a properly set-up 1911, so I don't mind bumping it against walls, carrying it against my sweaty skin in 120degree AZ summer heat and leaving it uncleaned for months at a time. Such a "soulless" modern plastic pistol just fulfills my CCW needs better. Its not personal - it's only business  .
|
|
Quoted:
Kimber MIM breakage is legendary, and I'm not talking urban legend.
Legendary on internet forums perpetuated mostly by Colt owners. Kimber 1911's for the $$ are excellent pistols. I've been expecting people to be coming out of the woodwork all day with Kimber MIM horror stories . How many breakages per 100,000 guns do you have to have before it becomes legendary? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kimber MIM breakage is legendary, and I'm not talking urban legend.
Legendary on internet forums perpetuated mostly by Colt owners. Kimber 1911's for the $$ are excellent pistols. I've been expecting people to be coming out of the woodwork all day with Kimber MIM horror stories . How many breakages per 100,000 guns do you have to have before it becomes legendary? At least one. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, all the threads on the 1911 forums over the years of broken thumb safeties, grip safeties, extractors, slide stops, et. cetera are all in my head.  So far they seem to be. Do you have any links? We happen to be on a 1911 forum right now. he is talking about the website m1911.org Lots of tales there (just like here) about how good Colt's are and how everything else sucks. 
|
|
The quickest info I could drag up was from 2007, and Kimber made 55,722 pistols.
ATF web site Now lets say that Kimber had a MIM failure rate of 1/2 of 1% in one year. That would be 275+ failures in ONE YEAR and we (gun owners) would be screaming for their heads at the company gates. I think they have been in the 1911 business since about 1995 so that's like 13 years if you discount 09. Lets round down to an imaginary average of 50,000 per year for 13 years that’s +-650,000 pistols. ½ of 1% of that would be 3,250. Now in almost any manufacturing process, ½ of 1% failure is considered part of the process if not perfectly acceptable. If Kimber had produced THREE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY defective pistols in the last 13 years, they would have been laughed out of the firearms business. Now THAT would be legendary! Now how many threads on broken MIM parts are we going to see on 1911.ORG, two? three? hardly a blip on anyone's radar! If they had anywhere near enough breakage to do a recall like GM or Chrysler does,they would be reduced to the level of Llama or Firestorm in the eyes of the gun world! |
|
Not sure how much this will help the OP but..
I started shooting the 1911 around the age of 12. I stopped shooting it shortly after because It was too much recoil for me. Went into Glock, Loved them, shorlty after started shooting a USP. About then I was around the age of 15. Next thing I know Im back on the 1911. I since have sold my USP and Glock to fund 1911s I have used everything from RIA 1911 to Kimbers(owned 2) and now I finally worked up enough cash at 18 with the help of my dad to get a Nighthawk. I am now 19 and finally acquired my CCW permit thanks to a small loop hole that IN left in their CCW application law that allows non residents to apply at 18 if they work there or have a common place of buisness. I carry a 1911 daily now and love it, use it in IDPA and it has helped me reach the rank of expert in CDP. The only problems I have ever had with any 1911 were generally related to the extractor, which seems to be the weakest link in the design if not properly tuned from the factory, followed closely by a bad magazine. In my opinion though 1911's are one of the best handguns for carry or competition. Their accuracy and ease of use in competitions make it great, the thinness makes it great for CCW. Summing this up, carry what you personally want to trust your life to. My 1911's never have a malfunction. |
|
Quoted:
I am looking to purchase a 1911 and was talking to a buddy about it. He said to get something polymer instead and not even both with a 1911 because to be as reliable as a glock or sig requires spending 2 grand on the pistol initially or putting a lot of custom work into in and ending up with a 2000 dollar pistol anyway that is still not quite as good as a pistol costing about 1/4 of that. I know I am talking to 1911 lovers right now, but in all honesty is this a fair assessment? If some customization is required, what are the upgrades that you would need to put into a springfield armory mil-spec right out of the box to make it shoot well? Your friend is a dipshit. Tell him to shove his dishwasher safe pistols where the sun don't shine. 
The 1911 was the standard issue pistol for 80 years and a lot of people would still prefer it over the 9mm they are currently issued. I have a friend with the Springfield GI. It hasn't had a single malfunction. I own five 1911's, all under the 2,000 mark by at least 700$ and the only work I've done has been cosmetic (grips, finish, etc...) and the only issues I had was some stovepiping rounds in my TRP which just required better cleaning of my extractor. Keep in mind a lot of 1911 manufacturers offer a lifetime warranty. If you were to get a Springfield, given the nature of their excellent customer service, chances are they'll make sure it's reliable for you if for any reason it isn't already from the factory. Just my two cents... I own one plastic fantastic and five 1911's with a sixth on the way. Enough said. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the input. I am looking for a pistol that I could take to the range and have some fun with, but also something that I could have in the nightstand. I figured a full size 1911 would be a little big for concealed carry. Going to 1911 fans for criticism of the 1911 would seem ill-advised, but only a parent knows all the flaws in their children whether they will admit them to others or not. I love the way the 1911 looks, feels, and the history behind it, but I think that for a general shooter I am getting the impression it might not be the best choice. It's big, but it depends on how you conceal it. A Milt Sparks VersaMax 2 holster does a nice job, even with a full size 1911. But with nearly 100 years under it's belt, there is a lot of info available, and there are a lot of people that work on them. The biggest downside is the expense and availability of .45 ACP lately, but eventuallly it is bound to decline, or at least be more available. Other than that, I quit carrying my compact polymer frame for the reliability and stopping power of my 1911. I trust it more, but as others have said... YMMV. (PS: I still think your friend is a dipshit.  )
|
|
Quoted:
Not sure how much this will help the OP but.. I started shooting the 1911 around the age of 12. I stopped shooting it shortly after because It was too much recoil for me. Went into Glock, Loved them, shorlty after started shooting a USP. About then I was around the age of 15. Next thing I know Im back on the 1911. I since have sold my USP and Glock to fund 1911s I have used everything from RIA 1911 to Kimbers(owned 2) and now I finally worked up enough cash at 18 with the help of my dad to get a Nighthawk. I am now 19 and finally acquired my CCW permit thanks to a small loop hole that IN left in their CCW application law that allows non residents to apply at 18 if they work there or have a common place of buisness. I carry a 1911 daily now and love it, use it in IDPA and it has helped me reach the rank of expert in CDP. The only problems I have ever had with any 1911 were generally related to the extractor, which seems to be the weakest link in the design if not properly tuned from the factory, followed closely by a bad magazine. In my opinion though 1911's are one of the best handguns for carry or competition. Their accuracy and ease of use in competitions make it great, the thinness makes it great for CCW. Summing this up, carry what you personally want to trust your life to. My 1911's never have a malfunction. That's a wise 19 year old right there. *tear* 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look, everyone loves the 1911, but it is a design thats almost 100 years old. It is made from old-fashoned wood and steel, and requires EXTENSIVE hand fitting to be built right. Today's pistols are being designed in an era of 3D CAD, CNC machining and modern materials, and require no hand fitting to deliver equivalent or superior reliability, accuracy and firepower in a smaller. lighter package... they just make more sense for most people's CCW needs. All I get from this comment is that it is smarter for the companies out there to produce soulless plastic for a higher profit margin. And once again, you're personal opinion comes in. I gotta ask, what do you carry for CCW? Per my earlier post, I shoot 1911s in IPSC competition, but I carry a Glock 27 for CCW. I do so because it is MUCH lighter to carry, holds more rounds (that in my personal opinion are just as effective as your .45 hardball), is a smaller overall size, and I have 18 years experience running Glocks along side 1911s that tells me the Glock is more reliable. Oh, and the Glock is half the price of a properly set-up 1911, so I don't mind bumping it against walls, carrying it against my sweaty skin in 120degree AZ summer heat and leaving it uncleaned for months at a time. Such a "soulless" modern plastic pistol just fulfills my CCW needs better. Its not personal - it's only business .
Seriously, I don't know where to start.... let's see.... "Oh, and the Glock is half the price of a properly set-up 1911, so I don't mind bumping it against walls"- How difficult is it for you to avoid a wall? It's not like they jump out and grab ya. And a properly set-up 1911? Properly set up for fucking what? IPSC? "I have 18 years experience running Glocks along side 1911s that tells me the Glock is more reliable."- Oh I'm sorry Mr. Leathem, I didn't realize I was talking with you.  BTW, do you use that line on the ladies too?
" carrying it against my sweaty skin in 120degree AZ summer heat and leaving it uncleaned for months at a time."- I know plenty about the AZ summer, enough to know it's so damn hot it doesn't fucking matter what gun you carry. And the fact that you don't PM your handgun is somehow supposed to support your argument? You shoot a .40 S&W Glock and you don't clean it. From that alone I would suspect you are a lil' homie from the south-side rather than an IPSC legend. The funniest aspect about this is I fucking love my Glock, I carry it 99% of the time. I just can't tell the OP that his friend is correct. To say you need 2k to get a 1911 to run properly is an outright fucking lie. And yea, a glock will cost less than a 1911, but so does a kia compared to an audi. I hope you find more beauty in an Audi than a Kia To the OP: See what I mean - ask questions of KoolAid drinkers, and they spew KoolAid. I hope you find some good advice that helps you in your decision making. To Pleaforwar: You don't know me, so please don't judge me. Show some maturity, for Christ's sake. |
|
Looking at my nearly 60 year old Colt Commander, I am having a hard time remembering ever seeing any polymer pistols that were significantly lighter or easier to carry. I definitely don't remember any that had anywhere near as good a trigger pull.
Its as reliable as one can expect a pistol to be, and is reasonably accurate. Other than some higher profile sights, it would be perfect to CCW today. Now, the polymer pistols are well designed. They are also priced reasonably. If you have one, and can stand the trigger, (I can't), you are well armed. You are not significantly better armed than some one with a Browning designed 1911 type derivative. And, you don't need to spend $2k to get that pistol, though there are plenty of opportunities to spend that much if you want to. |
| I personally did not find Glocks of any model to be easier to conceal than my 1911. Weight is a consideration; but after years of shooting both Glocks and 1911s, I know that when I draw my 1911 I will hit my target. Weird, but I had a much harder time getting that feeling with a Glock. Grip angle, grip size, trigger, blocky slide under sight picture, just required MUCH more practice to feel good. |
|
Quoted:
I am looking to purchase a 1911 and was talking to a buddy about it. He said to get something polymer instead and not even both with a 1911 because to be as reliable as a glock or sig requires spending 2 grand on the pistol initially or putting a lot of custom work into in and ending up with a 2000 dollar pistol anyway that is still not quite as good as a pistol costing about 1/4 of that. I know I am talking to 1911 lovers right now, but in all honesty is this a fair assessment? If some customization is required, what are the upgrades that you would need to put into a springfield armory mil-spec right out of the box to make it shoot well? drudge, Your buddy is off a bit and obviously bias to the plastic fantastic pistols. Just like any thing you buy, you can have good and bad. I have been shooting 1911's for over 30 years and have had a bad one in the bunch that even the manufacturer could not get to work acceptably. The rest shot perfectly right out of the box without any modifications. I have many polymer pistols as well and I have had a bad one in the bunch....but the manufacturer did fix that one, again the rest shot perfectly out of the box. One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch my friend. Oh those costs he specified are waaayyy out of line for anything less than a custom gun. I have 1911's that start at less than $500 all the way to my customs that are $2000+. tex45acp |