Posted: 6/2/2009 10:22:09 PM EDT
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Let me start by saying that I am new to the "world of the 1911". Last year I bought a used Kimber Stainless II and immediately fell in love with all aspects of the gun...more so the 1911 than the Kimber itself. Don't get me wrong it is a great piece and has never faltered me once.
I call it my "gateway" 1911...it opened my eyes to this wonderful world and all its possibilities. Later this year I will be purchasing a Wilson CQB, a little howmework, some websurfing and a very satisfied rebuild of my Remington 870 into a Border Patrol model led me to them...I am sold on the company and their product is a terrific byproduct of their commitment to excellence. Here is my question...I want to build my own 1911. Or rather, have one specifically built for me...my own unique piece in a world of clones, knock offs and "off the shelfers". This is where you guys come in...like I said earlier I am very new to this and haven't the foggiest idea where to start. I have several questions and as the project progresses I am positive there will be more. To start things off, I will say what I do know what I want––- first it must be a 4" Commander model and secondly the total price of the project from gun purchase to the holster that will carry it can't exceed US $ 3,000.00. Other than that, any and all suggestions are VERY welcome. I guess you would start with the base gun itself- this may be a dense question, but what is the difference between a Series 70 and Series 80 Colt? Then, does Springfield Armory make a decent entry level 1911? I have heard OK things about Para's, but I am not totally sold on those. Also, I would like to stick with a larger manufacturer (Colt, SA, Para, S & W...) then go with a semi pre custom company like Kimber, Les Baer, Ed Brown... What would be the most important things to change on a rebuild like this––- what is going to make the biggest performance differeces and what are going to be my biggest "bang for the buck" change outs? Lastly, does anyone have a good gunsmith they would recommend in Alaska. Since I live up here it would make things a lot easier to drop the gun off and check on its progress then to go through the whole shipping and FFL deal. Thanks, sorry it got a little long winded, but I am very excited about the prospects of what this undertaking could bear. |
| I can't really help you out with most of what you've asked here, but it may be a good idea for you to try posting in the Alaska Hometown Forum. At least with regards to reputable 1911 smiths in Alaska. |
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Quoted:
I guess you would start with the base gun itself- this may be a dense question, but what is the difference between a Series 70 and Series 80 Colt? Then, does Springfield Armory make a decent entry level 1911? I have heard OK things about Para's, but I am not totally sold on those. Also, I would like to stick with a larger manufacturer (Colt, SA, Para, S & W...) then go with a semi pre custom company like Kimber, Les Baer, Ed Brown... To begin with, Kimber is NOT a semi-custom builder, and should not be lumped with Baer, Brown, and Wilson. Kimber belongs over with Springfield and Colt as the largest manufacturer of assembly line built production 1911s. Second, I would look anywhere but Para. Para has a reputation for build poor guns with poor CS backing them. IN particular their metalurgy appears to suck, as you often hear of peening of major areas like slidestop or other high contact areas... Also, most custom smiths ask for a base Colt or Springfield to work with. The Springfield GI or MilSpec is a good base from Springfield... |
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I agree on the Kimber comment. I have a Stainless Raptor II, which I love, but it is not a custom shop gun. It is, though, well made, well fitted and pristine in finish. The simple fact that Dennis at Kimber had no interest in talking to me about creating a magwell/msh that matched the gun's Raptor theme, even if I would agree to pay the price they asked for it, says they don't do custom to me.
Why buy a base gun and have a gunsmith trick it out for you? And if this is going to be a carry gun, why spend $3k? I would recommend you take a look at Fusion Firearms. Bob Serva, ex-Dan Wesson is at the helm. Fusion Firearms And check the other dedicated 1911 forums for what people are saying about their Fusions I know my next few 1911s will be born in their shop... |
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Quoted:
Here is my question...I want to build my own 1911. Or rather, have one specifically built for me...my own unique piece in a world of clones, knock offs and "off the shelfers". This is where you guys come in...like I said earlier I am very new to this and haven't the foggiest idea where to start. I have several questions and as the project progresses I am positive there will be more. To start things off, I will say what I do know what I want––- first it must be a 4" Commander model and secondly the total price of the project from gun purchase to the holster that will carry it can't exceed US $ 3,000.00. Other than that, any and all suggestions are VERY welcome. Unfortunately, the Commander isn't made by everybody, so that excludes one very good Semi-custom outfit (Wilson Combat) and one very solid production company (Springfield). This is because they favor the 4" bull barrel over the 4.25" bushing setup. I have both and I love both, but if the weapon is a full frame, then I would stick with the 4.25" "Commander" profile over the 4" "Champion/Professional" setup. I guess you would start with the base gun itself- this may be a dense question, but what is the difference between a Series 70 and Series 80 Colt?
The S70/S80 deal is particularly confusing due to the misinformation on all sides of the equation. There are basically 3 types of configurations: "GI" "S70" and "S80". What you really want to ask is what's the difference between "pre-80" (the 1st two groups) and "S80". Series 80 1911s are pistols made from 1983 up that incorporate a Colt patented firing pin block system. All in all, history has demonstrated that this added safety is pretty useless seeing how they have presented a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. On the other hand, they haven't shown themselves to be particularly harmful either. There are accounts of the firing pin locking on 80s, but these are few and far between. There are also accounts of the S80 adversely affecting the smoothness of the trigger pull, which may be subjective or something only true with certain pistols on a case-by-case basis. By and large, the "adverse" weight/smoothness added would not be significant on a defensive/combat pistol. So the pre-80s are those that are made more or less the way JMB intended them to be made. The S70 is a very specific pistol that had the GI firing system and an accurized barrel and finger collet bushing, made in the 1970s. Even the S70 repro is a complete misnomer that caters to the ignorance that's been spread over the years because the S70 repro lacks this barrel and bushing (which was found to be too brittle), and it even has some series 80 parts for cost effectiveness! The educated 1911 enthusiast makes the distinction as "Pre 80/Series 80", but like everything in english, meaning of a word becomes reduced to the repetition of the ignorant (like "decimated" meaning annihilated today, instead of destroyed exactly 10% as the original meaning indicated). Then, does Springfield Armory make a decent entry level 1911? I have heard OK things about Para's, but I am not totally sold on those. Also, I would like to stick with a larger manufacturer (Colt, SA, Para, S & W...) then go with a semi pre custom company like Kimber, Les Baer, Ed Brown...
When it comes to builds off a production gun, there are two and ONLY two companies worthy of consideration: Springfield Armory, and Colt. Both are reputable companies that build quality pistols with a reasonable expectation of quality, unlike much of their competition (particularly Para, which is a substandard S80 1911 copy). Springfield is a no-nonsense company that builds a pretty good blaster, but as I have indicated above, they do not make commanders anymore, so you either buy used or you can only build off a SA frame. Regardless, you want a Colt anyway, because there are gnomes that sprinkle pixie tears on each one making the horse on the slide compel people to spend more on Colts than any other 1911 in the used market. So, if master craftsman X made both a Colt and a SA both identically configured and put them up for bid, the Colt would come out costing more because of the gnomes. Don't laugh. I am being absolutely serious. What would be the most important things to change on a rebuild like this––- what is going to make the biggest performance differeces and what are going to be my biggest "bang for the buck" change outs?
Welcome to the wonderful world of 1911s. There are 1001 things to do on a 1911 pistol. The possibilities are dizzying and are only limited by your application and your personal tastes. First thing you should do is consider what exactly you are building this gun for. If it's a CCW, then things like a professional dehorning, good night sights, and a complete reliability workover would be a good starting place. If it was a sporting pistol OTOH, things like high viz day sights, accurized barrel, and an amazing trigger job would all be desirable.You really need to figure out what this pistol is for and tailor these mods to the application. A good combat/defense pistol doesn't need a 3.5# triggerpull, but you can certainly add that if it makes the weapon a more pleasant shooter to you. Things you will want to consider universally would be top quality extractor, slide stop, and if you want to make this a "super 1911," good internals (hammer, sear, disconnector, trigger), and a throated, accurized barrel. I would also consider an ambi on a CCW defensive gun. Ambis have critics who fear them being swept off or the part breaking, but a hand sweep when adjusting clothes always confirms the status of the safety, and the strong side of the safety will not fail even if the weak side snaps off (Wilson combat is also offering a very interesting new ambi).My advice to you however, is to look at all the semi-custom pistol outfits and a few custom smiths and see what features come on their offered guns. Add and subtract what you like from these offerings on the pistol you envision. Lastly, does anyone have a good gunsmith they would recommend in Alaska. Since I live up here it would make things a lot easier to drop the gun off and check on its progress then to go through the whole shipping and FFL deal.
Thanks, sorry it got a little long winded, but I am very excited about the prospects of what this undertaking could bear. Sorry. No idea about the AK smiths. Just take your time and do your homework. $3,000 goes a long way for one hell of a 1911 so long as you build right with the right parts and people, and you make intelligent choices that suit you and your needs instead of your whims that week. |
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Thanks for all the fast replies...not only am I new to 1911's, but also to the "forum" world. It is amazing how much you can learn in a very, very short time.
I was unaware of the "Hometown" tab and will definitely be signing up there after this re-post. Again, thanks for the help. I figure that I will be going for the Colt or Springfield....you guys made a strong case for both. My ignorance showed in a couple places- I thought all 4" models (regardless of manufacturer) were referred to as "Commanders" and all 5" barrels were "Government" and 3" ones were "Officers"...do these monikers only apply to Colts? The second mistake was lumping Kmber in with the Ed Browns and Les Baers...I knew there was a huge difference (knda like the difference between a Tag Heuer and a Rolex), all I can say there is- "sorry, I am a little slow on the uptake  "
When finshed, I will use this gun primarily as a CCW and like all the other guns I own, a well used range gun. Because I plan on carrying it for long periods of time, I was always curious about lightweight materials and places you could shave a few ounces here and there. What is the consenus on aliminum, titanium and scandium (if these are even available as 1911 parts) and if they are, where would one go about acquiring them? Then, on the flipside, if i plan on putting thousands of rounds through it- have these alloys proven themselves in the longevity department. Lastly, the $ 3K final price was just a cap that I must put on myself.. If I don't then I tend to go way overboard and end up paying too much, regardless of the product. From the sounds of it, I should be able to pull this custom off for quite a bit less- that is if you guys continue to answer my questions- 
Thanks again- I will post pictures from the moment I purchase the original to the final product. And if I can find a great gunsmith up here in the 49th, then there should be some pictures of the process itself. |
| The monikers "Government", "Commander", "Officer", and "Defender" are all trade names for Colt's 5" full size, 4.25" intermediate, 3.5" compact, and 3" micro respectively. Everybody makes a 5" full size and we use the terms Gov't, full size, and 5" interchangably. Some companies make "Commander" platforms and name them with their own trade names like "commanche" and CBOB. The intermediate platforms are the 4" bull barrel platforms, which are neither Commanders or Officers. The 4" Full frame is the Champion/Professional platform, which competes with the Commander platform, and the 4" compact frame is the "compact" platform which has a few different trade names and competed with the now discontinued Officer platform. |
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I would recommend you take a look at Fusion Firearms. Bob Serva, ex-Dan Wesson is at the helm. Fusion Firearms And check the other dedicated 1911 forums for what people are saying about their Fusions I know my next few 1911s will be born in their shop... This is the route I would go, I've seen some fantastic looking guns come out of Fusion for just under $2000 |
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After much surfing and comparing specs, plus all the help from pulpsmack––-thanks––- I have decided to go with the Colt XSE Lightweight Commander. The fact that it is in the 4" range, lighterwieght, can accomodate an 8 roungd magazine and carries a reputable name all really made the choice for me. I did some checking gunbroker.ocm and was seriously considering a couple other Colt Commanders they had listed and since I am "rebuilding" this one then what the previous owner did to it maintenance wise and the like were not that big of a concern. But in the end, I spoke with my local shop and placed an order for a brand new one...the only downside is that he is a ver small shop and therefore right at the bottom of the supply line. So there is no date on when it will arrive- but it is coming!
So, now that I have the base and I figure that it is configured with the Series 80 set-up, what's next? I know that may come off as an incredibly stupid, but my real question is- if you were to alter a Colt right out of the box what is the first thing you woukd change? Would it be to change the barrel, improve the ramp, the trigger group, remove some excess parts, what about guide rods and springs? I know that at some point I will be sending it away for some ot the above mentioned work, but in regards to the barrel and ramp- would one really gain anyhting in terms of accuracy by installng a match grade barrel on a 4"? I have read enough to know that having the ramp polished and bushing fitted increases the reliabilty of feeding JHPs (this will be a carry gun, afterall), so I know that is on the list. Any recommendations on who to send it off to...not to sound arrogant, but I want it done once and I want it done right. Also, after viewing literally thousands of 1911's online I have come to two deinite conclusions. First, when I get it finished and it is time for painting, I want the desert tan frame- still debating over a matte black slide or tan all the way around. If I go with the matte black slide then the safety, slide release, trigger, hammer and speed chute / mag well will also be matte. Any particulars you guys could help with would be appreciated... which brand of coating, who to apply it and so forth. Secondly, I really like (for lack of a better term) the scalloping done to the front and rear of the grip- you know the oblong staggered cuts that run vertically down the handle. Who does this kind of work? I realize that most of the above questions are ones that I am going to have to reaseach and find out on my own. Afterall, that is why I started this project, to learn what I like and also what makes a great 1911. But I also know that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge on this forum alone. So why not take advantage of it...already you guys have made selecting the actual gun easy, I can't wait to read your next posts. BTW- I did look at Fusion and although they make some very nice rigs, I'm pretty hooked on this Colt- thanks for the suggestions. |