Posted: 4/13/2009 2:59:16 PM EDT
| Hey guys, my friend is looking to buy a pistol. Since I'm a firm believer in 1911's, I convinced him to go down the 1911 avenue. His spending limit is $800, maybe a little more with some persuasion. I'd like to hear yall's suggestions for the best bang for the buck. I've got a couple of ideas but I could always benefit from the knowledge of the community. Thanks! Oh, right, he told me the gun has to be new, nothing used. |
| Kimber Custom II should be in that price range...there's one at a local range for $750. STI has a 1911 that should be around that much, as well. SA probably has something that's a step-up from the GI model too. I would also suggest looking at Taurus...I have 3 and they are all great. The best one I've run into recently is a Metroarms American Classic II. Great gun for only $429. Google it and see what everyone who has handled/owns one is saying. The Firestorms are actually the same gun dressed a bit differently. |
| This Springer is currently out of stock. If you have some patience you can find them around. |
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What size gun?
New or used? What is it going to be used for? What does he like, or must it have? What would he like it to have? What does he hate, and it cannot have? I will use the 20 lpi checkering that Springfield uses on some of their 1911's. The checkering is too sharp for me, and my hands. That would make a Springfield 1911 with the 20 lpi checkering a bad choice for me. Does not mean it is a bad gun, just not for me. If you cannot anwer the simple questions above, try and do some more homework. If possible shoot as many different 1911's as possible, and make a list of likes, dis-likes, etc. Then you will be able to figure out what will work best for you, or him, for your situation. The other answer is to buy a basic, entry level 1911, and shoot it, until you figure out what you like? What work's best for me, maybe the worst choice for him. |
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What size gun? New or used? What is it going to be used for? What does he like, or must it have? What would he like it to have? What does he hate, and it cannot have? I will use the 20 lpi checkering that Springfield uses on some of their 1911's. The checkering is too sharp for me, and my hands. That would make a Springfield 1911 with the 20 lpi checkering a bad choice for me. Does not mean it is a bad gun, just not for me. If you cannot anwer the simple questions above, try and do some more homework. If possible shoot as many different 1911's as possible, and make a list of likes, dis-likes, etc. Then you will be able to figure out what will work best for you, or him, for your situation. The other answer is to buy a basic, entry level 1911, and shoot it, until you figure out what you like? What work's best for me, maybe the worst choice for him. I know, he was pretty ambiguous about what he wanted. Frankly I think I have a better idea of what he would like than he does. I'm just lookin for ideas. Thanks |
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I know, he was pretty ambiguous about what he wanted. Frankly I think I have a better idea of what he would like than he does. I'm just lookin for ideas. Thanks Then I would look at the STI Spartan. It is a well built 1911, that has a few, well done features, that make the 1911 a little more user friendly. It can be bought new for under $650.00. Another good option would be the Colt Combat Elite XSE. It is a good gun. You cannot go wrong with a Colt. Plus if he figures out what he likes down the road, he can have it upgraded. Colt is probably one of the most popular choices for custom builds. The only drawback is that it will cost slightly more then $800.00 new. |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not |
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i would pass on the taurus and newer/external extractor kimbers....about the only ones i'd consider would be Springfield armory, SW, used Colt, used STI, or even Sig Have you used the Taurus 1911? I just ask because I was skeptical as well until I bought one - got it at dealer cost minus a $75 rebate. I have been nothing but pleased with it and several dyed in the wool 1911 guys have been pretty pleasantly surprised with it. My friend owns four shops and sells quite a few, we have not heard of issues. |
| ive had 1911 from the cheap firestorm, sig, kimber, para, springfield, taurus ect.... realy its the design in my opinon, the 1911 design is the best by fare but for my money kimber is first, para is a far second for the costumer service they have wich is good, sig is third, then springfield. for the price its hard to match with sig and para. for me i would get the para first! |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not Lifetime warranty means DICK since thier customer service is SHIT. Springer will make it right if you have an issue. Taurus will jerk you around for 6 months, and still not fix the problem. I will never own another Taurus firearm based 100% on thier customer service. |
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Quoted: Let's see...Quoted: If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not I watched a Taurus ambi-safety come apart this weekend. It just fell off. Springfield does not have that.
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not I watched a Taurus ambi-safety come apart this weekend. It just fell off. Springfield does not have that.
Yes, I believe I read that happened in about 4% of the EARLY production guns and it does indeed suck. A $25 fix and it is done with... Considering how much money a lot of people pour into their 1911s that seems rather insignificant don't you think in the grand scheme of things? As for their customer service, the couple of folks who I have know who had to use it did not rave about it but did not describe quite the experience you are all describing. Again, find me another gun in that price range that has that many upgrades on it... the Springfield Mil-spec gives you nothing and I believe the frame is made in Brazil or is it Argentina... pretty much like the Taurus. Same price point more or less and you are getting a whole lot less. |
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I hope all you Taurus haters don't ever change your minds...that will just mean I'll have less problem finding one when I want to add to the three I already own. Thanks for not buying them. I prefer quality over quantity. Me too...but I also like it when I can have both...Taurus offers that. |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not I would agree with this. It's hard to beat what you get for the money in the Taurus. |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not Lets see... Taurus has a reputation for poor qualty Taurus has a reputation for poor reliability Taurus is notorious for not taking their warantee as serious as they should. Springfield also has a lifetime warantee(not sure where you get your information) Pretty easy decision in my book |
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Lifetime warranty means DICK since thier customer service is SHIT.
Springer will make it right if you have an issue. Taurus will jerk you around for 6 months, and still not fix the problem. I will never own another Taurus firearm based 100% on thier customer service. I actually can't speak for Taurus' customer service, as I've never dealt with them. I do, however have a 2003 made Springer Champion that I bought used. The sights shot way right and high for me. I sent it back to Springfield and they put a brand new set of Trijicon night sights on for no charge. They may not have a lifetime warranty, but they sure as hell took care of me! I was already a Springfield whore, but this cemented it for me. As far as any other brand, let's see...... I had a Para double stack that wouldn't feed no matter what I did, a Kimber Pro Carry that was an in-accurate, malfunctioning piece of crap, and a Rock Island Armory that never once malfunctioned that I should have kept for a truck pistol. This is all just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions! But, I have owned at least one of about every major brand of pistol out there, and right now as I'm typing, I have my Springfield Champion in my waistband. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's see...Quoted: If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not I watched a Taurus ambi-safety come apart this weekend. It just fell off. Springfield does not have that. ...Again, find me another gun in that price range that has that many upgrades on it... I'm not going to be finding anything for anyone as, in the end, it's YOUR money and YOUR good (or bad) fortune with what you end up with. I buy neither Taurus or Springfield 1911s but if I had a choice, Springfield has a much better rep all around with less quality complaints and MUCH better reports on customer service. Of course, as always, YMMV.  |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not 
It pays to have your facts straight. http://www.springfield-armory.com/assets/downloads/warranty.pdf One of the main reasons I bought my first Springfield end of last year was due in no small part to their reputation in customer service and their warranty. Every single Taurus 1911 I have seen on the firing line to date has had issues. 18 total and counting. While several here have indicated success with theirs, my advise is buyer beware. You get what you pay for. It has very little to do with "hating" on Taurus but the reality of experience with these weapons in hard use tactical classes where they fail time and again. You can pay 600-800 for a weapon with a proven track record of working and working well.....or you can pay 600-800 for a paperweight when it counts most. You choose. |
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The features he wants in the price range he is willing to spend in, will determine what guns to look at.
Hammer bite is a big deal to me, so the beavertail grip safety was very important to me. It will run at least 80 bucks to add it due to the new hammer and grip safety in just parts. If you have to have it fitted, expect closer to 150-200. It is cheaper to buy it on the gun already then to add it later. If a standard GI is good enough, there are ones ranging from 320-800 depending on who "makes" it. Most have lifetime warranties. All but taurus and colt has a lot of positive feedback when using it. I have read of a lot of time being spent at taurus, and a lot of trips back to colt to fix the same problem. I have never used colts service, but have used taurus and was pleased. YMMV. RIA is the new low end price/ bang for your buck gun. It used to be taurus, but they have upped their prices. You can pretty much get everything from a GI to a full out match grade gun from RIA for under 600 dollars. The RIA match gun is the base for the STI spartan. STI put their hammer, trigger and internals in the RIA Match and markets it as the spartan. Chromed match grade barrel and bushing, all hand fitted. RIA puts an ambi safety, flat msh, and beavertail on everything but the GI. I think they put full length guide rods in everything but the GI, but I am not positive. STI made it a single sided safety. Here is mine with a GI guide rod, and colt arched msh. 
At this same price point, you could get a stainless springfield GI or a milspec parkarized. The next step is the Taurus at around 600 dollars. About on par with the RIA tactical. Ambi safety and beavertail grip safety. FLGR etc... To get the same features as the RIA tactical (400) or Taurus (600) you step up to the springfield loaded which runs around 750-800 new depending on a few other features. About this level is kimbers which I did not research. At this point you can now start looking at colts which at 800 bucks are the GI style. The knocks are these. RIA uses cast frames and slides. They test well on the hardness scale, so STI felt comfortable using them for their entry level gun. Customer service has nothing but rave reviews. STI handles their own for the spartan, and they too have rave reveiws for customer service. Both companies say lifetime warranty on the guns. STI also was supposed to have used a forged slide, but I can find no reference. But it is funny the park looks different on the slide vs frame on mine gun. Springfield has a few QC issues, but they handle them right away, no fuss no muss. The stainless GI I got from them had a blued plug. They sent a chrome plug next day. Trigger pull was a bit heavy, but was in their limits, so I never sent it in. A guy had his frame crack after shooting WWB first time out. They replaced it with a milspec frame. Their warranty to the letter states the lifetime warranty is that gun with the original owner, but they don't seem to care. If you have a problem, they fix it. These are forged frames and slides though. Most people are very happy with them, but use them as base guns for builds as they are several hundred cheaper than a base colt. Kimber has a lot of bad press right now on QC issues, so I didn't research them any further. Taurus has a lot of unhappy customers. They have a lot of happy customers too. It seems it is hit or miss if you will get a good one from them. Customer service is reported to take weeks to months to get the issue resolved. But it does get resolved. They too used forged frames and slides, and it is said that they get them from the same source as springfield does. colt has had a few QC issues. I have read a lot of people upset having spent good money for a colt, but having to send it right back in for some issue. As simple as fail to feed stuff, to as bad as off center holes where something isn't centered on the gun and the dust cover rubs and such. But no one has a more loyal following. I have sipped the koolaid, but reality hit and I found there were cheaper guns with more features that shot just as well or better. |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not How do you figure Springfield does not have a lifetime warranty? I have the card for my Micro sitting in front of me. Springfield will even warranty second owners. It's not in writing but if you have an issue, they make it right. We had a Taurus we sent back five times and it's back for the sixth. At this point it's a matter of principle. You can't speak to anyone there. We have e-mailed everytime we get it back. Every time we get it back it has the same problem it did when we sent it. I have a PT1911 sitting in the shop that the ambi safety broke on. Taurus fixed it, sent it back and the owner put it up for sale. No body wants it. I have 2 Springfields and both are 100%. Any dealings with CS has been a good one. But then I haven't had to send one in. Read up on SA customer service. It gets good reviews. You can put all the extras on a weapon you want, but that doesn't change the heart of the weapon. Turd with a rose is still a turd. Just looks better. |
| I stand corrected on the lifetime warranty if they will warranty a second owner. I don't consider a lifetime warranty to truly be a lifetime warranty if it is not transferable. If the product is good enough to warranty the original owner it is good enough to warranty a second or third... you warranty the product not the owner. If Springfield does that I concur it is truly lifetime. |
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If you can find a Springfiled Armory Mil-Spec it should run about $800. I have one in Stainless Steel and it is quite nice. Wow Mil-specs should be around $650 not $800. And I would take a Taurus PT-1911 with an alloy frame and rail for around $700 before I'd buy a Mil-spec for $800 or even $650 Let's see... Taurus has either Heine or Novack style sights... Springfield has garbage Taurus has a skeletonized trigger, Springfield does not Taurus has an ambi safety, Springfield does not Taurus has front stippling on the grip, Springfield does not Taurus has front serrations on the slide (some folks like em), Springfield does not Taurus has a lifetime warranty, Springfield does not Lets see... Taurus has a reputation for poor qualty Taurus has a reputation for poor reliability Taurus is notorious for not taking their warantee as serious as they should. Springfield also has a lifetime warantee(not sure where you get your information) Pretty easy decision in my book Reputations are sometimes based on fact...but sometimes based on fiction. Alot of what is read on the internet is bs, but also sometimes it's true. So it's best to base your decision on the personal experience of someone you know. Or maybe better yet, your own personal experience. I won't argue with your last two statements, based solely on my personal experience. I have never had a need for using Taurus service, and if I had a catastrophic problem with one of my PT1911's, I would imagine Taurus would stand behind their lifetime warranty. It might take awhile, but I would bet in the long run I would be taken care of. But I've owned alot of 1911's from various manufacturers over the 20+ years I've been shooting and never had any issue I couldn't resolve myself. So their "seriousness" about their warranty doesn't really mean much to me. I've build guns from a pile of parts, fitted slides to frames, fitted bushing and bushing-less barrels, compensators, done countless competition level and carry level trigger jobs, so fixing some non-blowup in my face problem is not something I would ask someone else to do. Poor quality and poor reliability? Really? I guess buying a Taurus can be hit or miss, but why have I been able to buy 3 of them, all the only ones in stock and get great shooting, well finished and totally faultless guns? Luck? Maybe...maybe I should start buying Powerball tickets and have all my guns custom made when I win every time. I don't think I'm just lucky and if you visit the dedicated Taurus forum, you might find that many, many others agree with me. I respect all the other brands that have been mentioned here and probably will own one or more from each of them in the near future (I buy too many guns.......well never mind, you can never have TOO many guns). Next on my list is probably going to be an STI Spartan. What I like about Taurus, for the type of gun I want, is the only thing I've needed to add to my 1911's is a magwell (I like the Ed Brown magwell/mainspring housing units). For under $70 and the price of the Taurus, I have a tricked out, flawless performing, totally reliable and very accurate 1911. At least in my hands. |
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Kimber Custom II gets my vote. Erick Z This^ Love mine, never a hickup, and one of the most accurate & consistant weapons I've ever owned. ETA: oh yeah, and get one with the tritium night sights already installed...they stand out in the black of night on your nightstand, and as mentioned before it's cheaper to get them on the gun than trying to get them installed later. |
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I stand corrected on the lifetime warranty if they will warranty a second owner. I don't consider a lifetime warranty to truly be a lifetime warranty if it is not transferable. If the product is good enough to warranty the original owner it is good enough to warranty a second or third... you warranty the product not the owner. If Springfield does that I concur it is truly lifetime. I called Springfield to check on the warranty before purchsing one used. I was told. "Yes technically the warranty is for the original owner, but it's pretty clear when it's one of our guns. If there is a legitimate problem we will take care of it. " J |
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I stand corrected on the lifetime warranty if they will warranty a second owner. I don't consider a lifetime warranty to truly be a lifetime warranty if it is not transferable. If the product is good enough to warranty the original owner it is good enough to warranty a second or third... you warranty the product not the owner. If Springfield does that I concur it is truly lifetime. I called Springfield to check on the warranty before purchsing one used. I was told. "Yes technically the warranty is for the original owner, but it's pretty clear when it's one of our guns. If there is a legitimate problem we will take care of it. " J Nice post. I'm sure thats reassuring to all Springfield owners including myself. 
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| I sure here alot of bad things about Taurus customer service, but my personal dealing with them was not that way. I bought a Taurus Tatanium ultra-lite M-85. When I got it home I noticed some problems with the trigger pull. The next day I called Taurus and told him the problem. He asked if I would be home the next day. I told him I would, he said great, Fed-X will come by between 0800 and 1200 to pick up the gun. Taurus will pay all shipping. In a week and a half the gun was back in my hands and is still functioning perfect to this day. I would have no problems buying another Taurus firearm. |