Posted: 1/16/2009 6:24:53 AM EDT
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I've had experience with 1911 style pistols since the early 1980's. Not just a whole lot of 1911 shooting or experience, but I have owned several 1911 pistols of various makes.
Truthfully, my 1911 ownership has not been all that great!  Some of the guns I've owned being great guns, others not so good. I like the system, just that the overall quality of some of the 1911s I've owned has stunk!
examples of stinkers being a Randall stainless I bought used. It was equipped with a barrel/slide assembly that just didn't seem to mate up well to each other. Has barrel and slide lug wear when I got it, the wear was continuing, and I got rid of the gun. The Randall worked ok, accuracy was fair, just too much wear on the lugs, plus some peening on the frame. I changed recoil springs, but this gun obviously had some fitting issues with the top end. Another turkey that should have been a great gun was an Auto-Ordinance 1911A1. Bought new, the frame was soft I guess. The gun survived 50 rounds of ball ammo, and went back to the store the day after purchase. The frame had peened over to the point you couldn't feild strip the gun after fifty shots. A couple of semi-turkeys would include a Norinco 1911A1 and a Springfield Milspec. Both of these guns had issues with the slid stop lever, both were bought new. The Norinco was actually a fair gun. It's biggest failing was that occasionally the nub on the slide stop lever wouyld get underneath the follower of the mag and lock the empty mag into the gun! May have been the lever itself was fitted too small. Careful choice of mags made the gun servicable, but I ended up trading it off. It didn't like hollowpoints either. The SA Milspec had just the opposite issue as the Norinco! It tended to engage the slide stop with ammo still in the mag. The Milspec was and is a damn nice gun, don't get me wrong, however The SA customer service were unable to do a simple task such as fit the slide stop lever properly(1993/1994). Two trips to SA for the same silly issue!  . Was almost like SA had no real gunsmiths/techs who had a clue how to deal with it. Dealing with SA customer service was friendly, but fruitless(aside from free mags the would send me ). I fixed the gun myself in about 30 minutes with a small file and some fine sand paper, using the destructions in a pistol-smithing manual. Basicaly just filed the slide stop's internal flats enough to clear ammo in the mag. I still have this 1911, and it's a great .45 pistol now.
My next 1911 was a great gun from the git-go for a change!  It's a Argentine Sistema Colt. A matching number gun I bought at a gunshow. This gun is great. The magwell is a bit tight, but it will function and fire with any mag I've tried. Also a very accurate 1911. I've never tried hollowpoints in this pistol, but it will eat ball ammo like crazy. If all 1911 pistols were as good as the old Sistema I own the 1911 would surely deserve it's reputation for reliability! The oldest, most used .45 I bought works best.
I've never owned a Colt made 1911, so cannot comment on those, but it just seems as if the commercial 1911 pistols I have owned just ain't the quality they were cracked up to be. That or I'm unlucky when it comes to .45 pistols. The exception would be a couple of .45 acp revolvers I own, they never jam up or cause problems! I do like the 1911 guns, just seems that the magic is more mythical than reality. So how has your luck been with off the shelf 1911 pistols? |
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NIB?
My odds are 2 returned for every 5 bought, but those odds encompass form as well as function. I only returned one used (cosmetic issues) and the rest ranged from flawless to minor modification (springs, extractor), and all of these were 30 years old or older. It may seem like more of a myth than a reality to you and many others, but you have to understand what a 1911 is. If you have a wartime Colt or GI contractor A1 (including Sistema), you have a 1911. If you have a commercial Colt, you have a 1911 (some years being lesser than others). If you have any other production gun (from Auto Ord through Taurus), you have a 1911 copy with a wide range of material, workmanship, and spec deviation from the original design. In some cases it is of no consequence, perhaps even an improvement in isolated cases. In others, it makes the weapon as different an animal from the 1911 as a Llama might be. Find a 1911 built to spec of the M1911 or M1911A1 and you find the magic is anything but mythology, and the Sistema confirms this. |
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Quoted:
I've had experience with 1911 style pistols since the early 1980's. Not just a whole lot of 1911 shooting or experience, but I have owned several 1911 pistols of various makes. Truthfully, my 1911 ownership has not been all that great! Some of the guns I've owned being great guns, others not so good. I like the system, just that the overall quality of some of the 1911s I've owned has stunk!
examples of stinkers being a Randall stainless I bought used. It was equipped with a barrel/slide assembly that just didn't seem to mate up well to each other. Has barrel and slide lug wear when I got it, the wear was continuing, and I got rid of the gun. The Randall worked ok, accuracy was fair, just too much wear on the lugs, plus some peening on the frame. I changed recoil springs, but this gun obviously had some fitting issues with the top end. Another turkey that should have been a great gun was an Auto-Ordinance 1911A1. Bought new, the frame was soft I guess. The gun survived 50 rounds of ball ammo, and went back to the store the day after purchase. The frame had peened over to the point you couldn't feild strip the gun after fifty shots. A couple of semi-turkeys would include a Norinco 1911A1 and a Springfield Milspec. Both of these guns had issues with the slid stop lever, both were bought new. The Norinco was actually a fair gun. It's biggest failing was that occasionally the nub on the slide stop lever wouyld get underneath the follower of the mag and lock the empty mag into the gun! May have been the lever itself was fitted too small. Careful choice of mags made the gun servicable, but I ended up trading it off. It didn't like hollowpoints either. The SA Milspec had just the opposite issue as the Norinco! It tended to engage the slide stop with ammo still in the mag. The Milspec was and is a damn nice gun, don't get me wrong, however The SA customer service were unable to do a simple task such as fit the slide stop lever properly(1993/1994). Two trips to SA for the same silly issue! . Was almost like SA had no real gunsmiths/techs who had a clue how to deal with it. Dealing with SA customer service was friendly, but fruitless(aside from free mags the would send me). I fixed the gun myself in about 30 minutes with a small file and some fine sand paper, using the destructions in a pistol-smithing manual. Basicaly just filed the slide stop's internal flats enough to clear ammo in the mag. I still have this 1911, and it's a great .45 pistol now.
My next 1911 was a great gun from the git-go for a change! It's a Argentine Sistema Colt. A matching number gun I bought at a gunshow. This gun is great. The magwell is a bit tight, but it will function and fire with any mag I've tried. Also a very accurate 1911. I've never tried hollowpoints in this pistol, but it will eat ball ammo like crazy. If all 1911 pistols were as good as the old Sistema I own the 1911 would surely deserve it's reputation for reliability! The oldest, most used .45 I bought works best.
I've never owned a Colt made 1911, so cannot comment on those, but it just seems as if the commercial 1911 pistols I have owned just ain't the quality they were cracked up to be. That or I'm unlucky when it comes to .45 pistols. The exception would be a couple of .45 acp revolvers I own, they never jam up or cause problems! I do like the 1911 guns, just seems that the magic is more mythical than reality. So how has your luck been with off the shelf 1911 pistols? Other than the Springer Milspec everything you mentioned is bottom of the barrel. You might wantto try something better to base your opinion on. |
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Not only that but the last new pistol you bought was in 93, things have changed a bit since then... Yes, this is so true. But, like some of the running threads are asking, is anything available for less than $800 thats worth a crap? 
Three new 1911 style guns in a row(Auto Ordinance, Norinco, Springfield Armory), and not one that was perfectly functional out of the box. Then there is the horror storys you hear from others(true or not) about higher end guns. Seems like I hear more gripes about Kimbers than the cheaper 1911's these days. Of course, if you pay more, you expect more too! I've thought about buying yet another 1911 pistol, however I've got two perfectly functional and quite accurate guns already, plus a Colt 1917 revolver and a nice 625 Model 1989 3" revolver. With my 1911 luck in the past, I figure I just as well stick with the 1911 pistols I have. I did buy a 1911 knock-off a year or so back, a pretty battered Ballester Molina .45 pistol. Not at all a 1911, but similiar. Even an ancient no blue left, brown colored, hard used Ballester has worked better than the brand new 1911 pistols I've bought. The old decrepit looking Ballester working great(I really expected it to be a fixer-upper). |
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Not only that but the last new pistol you bought was in 93, things have changed a bit since then... Yes, this is so true. But, like some of the running threads are asking, is anything available for less than $800 thats worth a crap?
Three new 1911 style guns in a row(Auto Ordinance, Norinco, Springfield Armory), and not one that was perfectly functional out of the box. Then there is the horror storys you hear from others(true or not) about higher end guns. Seems like I hear more gripes about Kimbers than the cheaper 1911's these days. Of course, if you pay more, you expect more too! I've thought about buying yet another 1911 pistol, however I've got two perfectly functional and quite accurate guns already, plus a Colt 1917 revolver and a nice 625 Model 1989 3" revolver. With my 1911 luck in the past, I figure I just as well stick with the 1911 pistols I have. I did buy a 1911 knock-off a year or so back, a pretty battered Ballester Molina .45 pistol. Not at all a 1911, but similiar. Even an ancient no blue left, brown colored, hard used Ballester has worked better than the brand new 1911 pistols I've bought. The old decrepit looking Ballester working great(I really expected it to be a fixer-upper). The only one you have any bitch over not working is the Springfield the rest are known suspect manufacture. |
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Not only that but the last new pistol you bought was in 93, things have changed a bit since then... Yes, this is so true. But, like some of the running threads are asking, is anything available for less than $800 thats worth a crap?
Three new 1911 style guns in a row(Auto Ordinance, Norinco, Springfield Armory), and not one that was perfectly functional out of the box. Then there is the horror storys you hear from others(true or not) about higher end guns. Seems like I hear more gripes about Kimbers than the cheaper 1911's these days. Of course, if you pay more, you expect more too! I've thought about buying yet another 1911 pistol, however I've got two perfectly functional and quite accurate guns already, plus a Colt 1917 revolver and a nice 625 Model 1989 3" revolver. With my 1911 luck in the past, I figure I just as well stick with the 1911 pistols I have. I did buy a 1911 knock-off a year or so back, a pretty battered Ballester Molina .45 pistol. Not at all a 1911, but similiar. Even an ancient no blue left, brown colored, hard used Ballester has worked better than the brand new 1911 pistols I've bought. The old decrepit looking Ballester working great(I really expected it to be a fixer-upper). The only one you have any bitch over not working is the Springfield the rest are known suspect manufacture. Those were the good old days, no internet, just the gunrags and word of mouth for info. I don't remember hearing anything bad about the Randalls or Auto Ordinance guns then. The Norinco's were just new when I bought it, and really, it wasn't that bad a gun, always working well except the occasional magazine hung up on the slide stop. If I had not sold it, a new slide stop lever and a bit of fitting would likely have fixed that issue. Essentialy the same applies to the Springer 1911. It was a great gun, just needed some work on the slide stop lever. Frustration with the service work by SA was my biggest issue. The Auto Ordinance 1911A1 was my true dissapointment! Although I've yet to hear of someone else having the same issue with a soft frame very quickly peening over. I suppose it too was a fluke, a frame that missed the heat-treat stage or something. Seems like most folks have better 1911 luck than me! |
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My luck has been excellent. I've never sent one 1911 in for repair or returned one to a store.
However, the one I had the most problems with, by far, is one that is regularly pimped on the forums –– the Springfield Loaded. I could have sent back and demanded that the factory fix the issues, but I'd rather do it myself and know it was done right. |
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My luck has been excellent. I've never sent one 1911 in for repair or returned one to a store. However, the one I had the most problems with, by far, is one that is regularly pimped on the forums –– the Springfield Loaded. I could have sent back and demanded that the factory fix the issues, but I'd rather do it myself and know it was done right. This has been my experience. |
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My luck has been excellent. I've never sent one 1911 in for repair or returned one to a store. However, the one I had the most problems with, by far, is one that is regularly pimped on the forums –– the Springfield Loaded. I could have sent back and demanded that the factory fix the issues, but I'd rather do it myself and know it was done right. My luck is the same all excellent,,, 4 Springfield's perfect...3 months ago Bought a Kimber & it's the best to date fit & finsih perfect..tighter than 16 year old virgin Accuracy..GREAT..@ 20ft It will shoot the same hole over & over. Now if I could do that 20-25 yds I would brag  I think you hear more horror
stories from the high end guns because when you spend that kind of $$$ & they fuck up your going to bitch more. |
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I haven't had any of that sort of trouble with the 1911s I've owned. My first one was an origninal Colt series 70 that I inherited from my grandfather and it is still the prize of my collection. I have since owned an auto ordinance thompson custom (their flagship model) which ran fine, but had some very sharp edges, and a less than stellar trigger due to its series 80 style trigger. I scored a nice deal on an unfired stainless Colt series 70 reproduction that has also run quite well so far. I have 3 springfield loadeds including a Longslide, Blackened Stainless Target, and MC operator. I also have a Dan Wesson CBOB that was the most trouble of all of them and had a tiny slide binding issue that I was able to fix with a very tiny ammount of sanding of the rail in one spot and the proper application of lubricant. 1911s and their near clones are a design that is dependant on proper hand assembly by competent people and the cost of labor is much higher than it used to be.
Buying a sub $800 or even $1500 gun these days affords some risk these days. If you want a good gun in the $450 range, there are some good, basic Springfields and Rock Islands out there, but be prepared for the gun needing some tweaking, and be happy that Springfield has one of the best customer service reps in the industry and RIA has had good reports, too. It would be great if these guns could be manufactured with quality at a cost similar to Glocks here in America, but it just doesn't seem feasable. |
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forget about "luck"
buy a QUALITY 1911 and don't look back. try an STI http://www.stiguns.com/ |