Posted: 10/1/2007 5:51:12 PM EDT
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Well, she's not the most sexy thing I've brought home, but I picked this up today.... A 1905 Colt .45 Rimless/Smokeless s/n 3xxx. Things I've noted so far include the pony stamp on the slide at the back left, the patent stamps, Hartford stamp, triangle proof with a "T" inside, an original grip on one side and handemade on the other, a totally worn out bbl and no mag. It's sitting in a bath of BreakFree right now as I can move the slide back about 1/16", but can't release the front button under the bbl to release the weird slide catch pin. We'll let it soak overnight and see what happens. It's been nickled (argh) and I was told it's been a paperweight on a desk since about 1978. I'm hoping I can get the old girl back in firing condition.... Any ideas on getting the slide to release? Manual says to press the takedown plug which allows the slide lock to release. Just nothing happening right now.   
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| Wish I could help, but I dont have any sound advice over & above what you're doing. Thanks for sharing and posting pics though. I really hope you can ressurect the old relic. Maybe an outfit like or Bill Adair or Turnbull might be able to get it working for you. They can certainly restore it, which I would certainly consider if she were mine. |
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coltautos.com/ Pull-down menu to 1905. Instruction sheet pdf is there. Lucky. |
Kept this thread updated, Please.
I understand where you are coming from. We both appreciate that gun as part of our history. If it was original, then I'd agree, don't shoot it. But since it seems to have been plated over, then why not put a few more rounds down range? Its a Colt and there is no doubt it can certainly handle being shot some more & won't break. |
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OK.... I'll take the grips off and drop in MMO to see what happens. Next up - A previous owner had it nickeled or chromed so some of the stampings are covered over, and barely visible. Should I just accept the fact it's now nickeled, or can the nickel be reverse-removed? And then, should that even be attempted? Is there a greater chance of screwing it up for removal vs leaving it as is? I'm all for getting the old girl back to shooting condition, and would have no problems firing it A FEW TIMES if a function/safety check works out on it. Only problems I can see down the road are 1)is 45 Rimless the same as .45ACP, and where to get a magazine. Thanks for the interest! |
1) Sort of. The 1905 version used a 200 gr bullet at 850 fps. 2) Original mags will probably be hard to come by. Triple K probably makes some M1905 magazines, but quality is unlikely to be the same as an original Colt. |
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OK, so it's been sitting in Liquid Wrench for a few days now, but I still can't get the takedown plug to move. I went to the autoparts store today for Marvel Mystrey Oil and all they had was a red bottle that appeared to be a fuel additive. Is this what 'yall are referring to? It said for gas or diesel engines, red bottle, black lettering. Just wanted to make sure before I dropped the gun in it. I'm also guessing after some close inspection that the gun was at some point taken apart, and the major components like the trigger, receiver, slide, take down plug and hammer were nickle plated, then the gun was reassembled. All the parts that I can see INSIDE don't appear plated and they all seem to be there. That leaves me to believe the take down plug that is giving me fits was plated, then forced into the receiver that was also plated and the clearances are now way too tight, thus the take down plug won't move at all. Would some heat applied to the receiver mass (maybe 200*F or so) be hard on the receiver or existing nickle? I was thinking about applying some heat to open it up a bit if it'll move, or at minimum, if corrosion has bonded the take down plug to the receiver, allow it to break free. My long term plans are to get her open and cleaned up, then look into removal of the nickle finish and a reblue. And it's a 1909 date of manufacture 35xx. Thoughts????? Thx- |
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Today was an excellent day! I took the gun over to a friends house who is somewhat of a 1911 guru with a lot of the 1903/1905 variants in .380, so he knew what he was looking at, just bigger. It's been sitting in Liquid Wrench for several days and was dried best we could get it with a towel. He simply took a 3/8" wooden dowel about 1-1/2" long and a little mallet and banged on the take down plug a few times and it moved enough to slide out the slide release bar. Once that was out, he tugged a bit on the slide and it came off to the rear. All it's internals seem to be there too. Then, with he drove out the two barrel pins and the barrel came off. However, the guide rod and spring remained in place with the take down plug so he just tapped it out from the inside since it was accessible with the barrel off and it came out. With a few minutes of light filing to remove a tight spot of nickle plating on the take down plug, it went back in slick as a whistle. We took it apart and reassembled several times with no problems. Our best guess is whoever nickle plated it stripped it as I guessed, plated then reassembled. Since the plating process added thickness to the receiver and take down plug, when it was assembled, well...... it got stuck and that's where it's been for the past 30 years - stuck. Here's what she looks like today:  I also noted in pencil a persons name and "Holly Hill, KY" with the date of 1/6/48 written on the handmade replacement grip. (the one on the left in the pic) I'm starting that search now to see if they are still alive or if anyone knew/knows him. Finally, I looked on Triple K's site and they have a 7 round M1905 magazine for $34 so that's next. Well, and a letter to Colt to see how it was configured, who it was shipped to and when. Stay tuned...... Next up is my decision on what to do next. Either 1)keep it like it is, or 2) send it to Turnbull. |
Hey! Thanks for posting the pic - I have not seen one broken down before. Its great that you took it to another 1903 owner and from you post, it sounds like this piece of history will be well looked after. |
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Hmmm...... To de-plate or not. That's the question for the day. I've done a bit of net-surfing and see that a lot of people de-plate guns on their own. Any wisdom from the group on this approach would be appreciated. Well, that and I'd have to re-blue it and I've not done that either. I did however get a magazine for it. Thoughts plz..... |
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Ok for my .02 is to send out the pistol and have that plating stripped down. It is conceiveable that the plating has taken alot of the abuse and neglect over the years. Strip it, Reblue it. Maybe some fresh grips, Magazine or two and see if she is a runner. Oh Hey.. I don't think you stated barrel condition? So what does the barrel look like inside? |
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Nice piece of history there and maybe another interesting chapter in the story (HH, KY) I've enjoyed your post, I hope you keep updating it. It got me thinking what would I do? ................hmmmm? I vote for strip and re-blue. I would keep the old set, but get a new set of grips and have it done by a pro in a nice dark blued finish, maybe even a parkerizing(sp) job. Hell, a 2 tone would look good as well. I love the gun, but not the nickel finish, IMO it makes a great gun look cheap in this instance..no disrespect intended. I've always liked the look of the SA or RR 1911 with the dark finish and darker wood grips, it's a sorta plain look, but IMO it makes them look more like a good solid tool rather than a gangster gun. But I'm sure whatever direction you decide to go will look good when your finished. Which way are you leaning? One more nosey question. Say I found a similar pistol, what would be a good deal on it? I'm not asking what you paid for it, just curious if it has collector's value or just nice old pistol value? I wouldn't have a clue if I ever came across one. |
The initial post I said a shot out bbl. HOWEVER..... it only looks shot out due to the plating in the grooves. I can still see the sprial of lands/grooves so I'm hopefull there too. I'm trying to get ahold of someone at COLT to take my money for "The Letter", but not having much luck with their historian returning my call. I'm leaning towards a de-plate, then re-roll of the markings and then re-blue. There's quite a few articles on de-plating rigs at home. Am I in over my head if I try it? |
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Congrats on the '05. I have serial number 4559, I think made in 1910. As you see, every part is hand made. See all the file and fitting marks. I have the original grips and magazine with mine, luckily, but it's good to know you can get another mag...where did you get yours?? Also, I would be very hesitant to shoot the gun with regular .45 ACP ammo, because they may be loaded a little hotter than the 05 loading. And also, your spring may be weak, resulting in high slide velocity. If you handload, try some reduced loads. Oh, and by the way, the guns never worked well with the current brass. The last one I saw shooting real well was over 20 years ago, and the loads were made using the steel cased ammo from WWII that had a thinner rim thickness (how else would I say it?) Maybe one of the current bass manufacturers makes brass with a thin rim. Does anyone know where to get any parts for these guns..?? I would like to replace the springs and maybe the pins, or at least have a spare set...  good luck...gn |
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If you are going to to consider having it restored keep Bill Adair in mind. Everything I have seen done by him has been excellent workmanship. He seems to be a less expensive alternative to Turnbul with comparable quality. I am usually against restorations but given the condition of the pistol I think it would make a good candidate. I strongly agree with greco. Do not shoot factory.45acp ammo in the 1905 as it is loaded to a higher pressure than the older .45 rimless. Your pistol is still worth a decent sum of money even in its current condition, and there is a good chance you could destroy it with factory ammo. That being said if the pistols mechanicals and springs check out I couldn't resist shooting it a little with light loads. http://www.restoration-gunsmith.com/ <---Bill Adair link |
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OK, update time.... I've got a email into Adair with some pictures so I'm waiting on a response. I'm now sure I will NOT attempt the de-plate on my own. Sort of like when you need a plumber, you call a plumber as I'm not one. Better to let the pros do it. As for the .45ACP round of circa 1905, I'm aware of the differences between the bullet wgt and velocities so there will be no new stuff going through it should I decide to fire it. If I do, it'll be the 200gr running maybe 600fps that I'll handload and run through a new springer mil-spec and chrono to make sure it's right. Now..... on to a bit more of the 'history'. I just got off the phone with the curator of the museum in KY. She searched her census records and found this: 1920 Census - McCreary County, KY (where Holly Hill is) William Ashton, Husband, Head of Household, Age 54 Sara Ashton, Wife, Age 51 Child John, Son, Age 22 Child Francis, Son, Age 17 Child Ray, Son, Age 15 Child Flossie, Daughter, Age 11 Child Jane, Daughter, Age 6 1930 Census Same info but Ray is listed as 25 years old now and still single. Occupation is listed but not legible. That puts Ray with a DOB of 1905+/-. I've requested copies of the census info sheets and they are being mailed today. That would mean that Ray carved his initials in the handmade grip when he was 43. Off to the Social Security Death Index records next as well as the Kentucky Death Index. I'm guessing he's deceased with a DOB of 1905 as that would make him 102ish now. OK, I've located records for his parents and siblings and a rootsweb entry I've shot an email off to. We'll see what happens. I'm hoping he married, had children and they can fill in some of the holes of time. |
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A bit more of the 'history' side of the equation... The gun was traded in on another/other firearms in Conroe Texas in 1978. According to the person who has had the gun from 1978 until 2007, the person who trading it in in '78 said "it was his grandfathers and he or the family had no use for it". We know Rays father was about 39 years older than Ray. So, sort of working backwards, we can estimate possible ownerships as follows: 2007 - Present. In my possession (CONFIRMED) 2007 - 1978. My friend who had it as a literal paperweight on his desk for all those years (CONFIRMED) 1948 - 1978 Firearm was in Holly Hill, KY and made its way to Conroe, TX. We know it's been in at least 3 generations of the same family as of 1978. We also know Ray is 39 years younger than his father, so at a minimum, that would get us back to about 1939. I just can't figure out if it was Ray who traded it in at the age of 73 and it's HIS grandfathers. Or if Ray had a child, who traded it in and the grandfather mentioned is Rays father. The second scenario is more probable. 1910 - 1948. 38 years possibly unaccounted for until the 1948-1978 period can be nailed down. 1910 - Firearm is manufactured/shipped (ESTIMATE - WORKING ON COLT CONFIRMATION LETTER) Stay tuned...
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