[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Rock Island Armory 1911 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/17/2007 2:33:42 PM EDT
| I've recently gotten interested in 1911s and am researching my options before a purchase. I really like the traditional GI style and have read quite a bit about the Springfield Armory GI models. Recently, however, I came across a Rock Island Armory 1911 for less than a SA. Is there a huge quality difference? Does the RIA make a good platform for modifications if I decide to go that route later down the road (specifically thinking about new sights)? Anything else I should know about the RIA 1911? Thanks! |
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RIA's are bargain basement, hit or miss pistols. Recent reports suggest they are "hitting" more than they used to, but there is that adage... Are they a good platform to modify? It depends... They are a great gun to try risky stuff to as a newbe gunsmith, because fucking up a RIA isn't worth a tear. If I wanted to start cutting my teeth on ejection ports, checkering and fitting beavertails it would be on a RIA or an essex. OTOH, there is nothing dumber (IMO) than having a Ford Pinto with a $14,000 suspension job and $25k dumped in the powertrain. A $300 pistol with $150-$400 worth of mods screams "I wasn't smart enough to by a Springfield Armory in the first place"... to me at least. |
obviously you've never been to a drag strip ;) if you plan to mod it... pick up an RIA... then you can spend that $400 you just saved on all kinda of fun add-ons... just my 2cents... |
+1 any serious, long lasting mods: go w/ the SA RIAs are ok for plinkers and range 1911s |
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absolutely nothing wrong with the new RIA's, except they're priced too low. all the nay-sayers are just trying to justify to themselves why they spent too much. the RIA shoots about 1/4 inch bigger groups, no more, at 25yards. the finish on them is tougher than alot of more expensive 1911's, hands down. the trigger is, well, clunkier, but its easily rectified. buy one. put 500 rounds thru it. polish the mag's and wells, and you have one very nice, reliable, tough 1911. who gives a crap who's name it on it. you can buy ANYTHING that would fit any other 1911, and drop it on the RIA. you can improve the accuracy easily enough, even though you'll find its really not an issue - like i said, only SLIGHTLY bigger groups between it and a kimber, with a $700 price difference? if i have to use either one, they'll both do the job just as efficiently. they are quality guns, at a great price. if they keep making this quality of a handgun, at this price, the kimber, springers, etc should start dropping their prices, or they'll start losing alot of sales. grab it quick before RIA starts to realize how much they're losing... |
They are priced exactly where they should be for a cheap, bottom of the barrel pistol. Consumer stupidity is the only reason why you can get $600 for a Taurus.
If you want to get from the garage to the Grand Canyon, a Kia Rio will get you there just as a Lexus would. Shit is still shit though, and "A to B" is not the Alpha and the Omega. There is safety, comfort, warranty, workmanship, and amenities all at stake. If you want a beater to get you to work, then the Kia might be the car for you. But if you are a salesman who does some substantial commuting, you'll find out just how costly cheap is.
This is unsubstantiated bullshit. Please cite the source(s) used to determine how the RIA has a maximum deviation of .25" from any other 1911 out there. My Wilson Combat comes with a 1" guarantee at 25 yards. Production pistols don't come with any such thing, and the result is a wagonload with examples ranging from tackdrivers to shotguns. I don't dispute the existence of an accurate RIA out there, but it's a crapshoot, and you are potentially as likely to get one that spreads 3" + over 25 yards as you are that gets 1.25" groups.
The finish on them is a cheap parkerization. It has its uses, but it rusts far easier than the wonder finishes out there today, and aside from the nostalgic GI look (which I like), it is bland and drab presentation.
This is the part of the passage where the poster reveals a complete ignorance about 1911s. By all means... go "rectify" the trigger by buying one and just "dropping it in". sure, it will smooth everything out when you put 500 rounds through it and polish the mags  and the wells  . I hear if you file the hammer down it will fire 1200 rounds per minute.  A trigger job is the heart of a good pistol and this is one place where you can be assured the RIA fails. A good trigger job easily requires $200 in parts and labor when a competant smith is involved. You can always spend the money and try fitting the trigger yourself. Good luck to a beginner on that. Polishing a mag on the other hand will do nothing to the performance of the gun (other than making it slide in smoother). same with the one "well" of the pistol. Since the word "wells" was used I asssume the poster was throwing out the word to mean some of those nebulous parts and surfaces he has no idea about, because there is only one "well" and it has nothing to do with the trigger. 
Shit, if I didn't know better this snake oil salesman might have sold me TWO RIAs by now. NO 1911 is a drop in gun... not with any predictable certainty. Buy 3 Colts, 3 SAs, 3 Kimbers, 3 Tauruses, and 3 RIAs. Then buy beavertails, internals, thumb safeties, and other assorted bits from your favorite outfit. Out of the 15 pistols you have, the likelihood that ONE of them will allow all parts to drop in is extremely low. The liklihood that most of the parts will drop in on one pistol is somewhat slim, and the the liklihood that at least one part will drop in is fair. One of the Colts may accept 4 parts while the other 2 accept 1, and the same inconsistancies will occur with the others. The notion that a cheap RIA is made with such uniform consistancy, to perfect spec is an outright lie. Like these fabled +.25" groupings, this drop in friendly gun is a fantasy. One might exist. 39 might exist. But the expectation that you even have a good shot of this happening when you pick a RIA out of the dealer's case does not nor should not exist.
Just polish the wells... right we know.  Between the matched set consisting of the match-grade barrel and bushing, plus the the trigger, internals and smithing costs you had hand fitted, you're are up to $800 plus, for an ugly gun. You could have had a Colt for that much.
They are cheap guns that fulfill a niche role in the market. There is nothing wrong with a RIA, so long as the expectations of the pistol are well-placed. They "might" give you pause when buying a SA USGI pistol given the savings, but that's about as far as it goes. Anything else is comparing the Kia to the Lexus. |
Well, I think we all see "pulpsmack's" opinion of RIA.  A nice, high quality 1911 style pistol has it's place, and I own a few, but a relatively inexpensive one does too - at least in my opinion. I was in my fun shop this past weekend, and he pulled out one of the RIA compact tactical models. 3.5" barrel I believe. It has Novak style low-mount sights, a actual Novak 7 rnd magazine, and an extended beaver tail grip. It was a sharp looking gun, the price was right, and it was perfect for what I wanted it for. A "truck" gun, nightstand gun, and a general - don't give a crap if I beat it up - gun. I don't expect to have match accuracy with it, but who would out of a 3" barrel? I bet within 15yds, that I can put a nice hole in your chest..!!  Anyway, here are a couple quick pictures of the little guy.   --Edited to add a picture next to my Kimber Pro Covert II for size comparison-- 
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| You can pick up a used Springer for what a new RIA cost. The Springer GI model can be had for around $350-$400, most gunshops sell the RIA for $375-$400. I have a stainless mil-spec which I picked up off the EE for $375 about a year ago, Dont be afraid to buy used for your first one. If you buy it new and dont like it your gonna take a hit on what you paid/sell, but if you buy it used, good chance you can make your money back or come really close to it. As far as mods, the Springer hands down. I have a RIA 38 super that even the full length guide rod doesnt drop in. |
FYI...two guns I will not buy used. 1911's and SAA's. People usually f-ck the up/ |
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Rather than give my opinion, I'll throw out a "no shit this happened to me" story, and let you make up your own mind. For fairness sake, I will admit I purchased a RIA after I came back from Haiti in 2005. As we all know RIA is Armscorp of the Philippines. I was able to participate in a range day with the Haitian National Police (HNP); some had Armscorp 1911s. The ones carried by the HNP were rusty, dirty and very banged up. One was missing grips and another the rear sight. As poorly maintained as these pistols were and with dirty ammo, they went bang when you pulled the trigger. Throughout the day there were some FTF and FTE, I think those issues were resolved by pouring CLP on a bone dry gun or switching out dented mags. Mr. plupsmack, has a point if you want a 1911 that will shoot .25 at 25 yards and has a crisp 4lb break the RIA is not for you. If you need one that goes bang when you pull the trigger a RIA will do. |
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Thanks all, for the opinions and info. pulpsmack seems to have done a good job calling bullshit (especially when it comes to polishing those wells), but I'm wondering about the Kia/Lexus comparison. Most of what I've read elsewhere on the interwebs (a few links below) seems to support what Dan-P and Kbear have implied; that RIAs are reliable and relatively good pistols for the price, giving me the impression that they are more comparable to a Honda or Toyota than a Kia. Perhaps that's what pulpsmack meant when he said "There is nothing wrong with a RIA, so long as the expectations of the pistol are well-placed." Here's a few of the articles I've come across about RIAs, as well as posts on a number of forums. ezine.m1911.org/RIATactical.htm www.advancedtactical.com/sweeneyarticle.pdf www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/RIA.htm |
Let me add one that you might not have heard of. I rcently purchased a "Commodor" imported by Century Arms to expiement with, its a 4" and the price was $320.00 out the door. My original thoughts were it would be an POS but I was wrong.I just wanted it for the slide and frame but now I think I'll leave it alone and shoot the hell out of it,here's a couple pics. along with a few others  I'm very pleased its actually pretty damn reliable........ I trust it as much as my others.... |
I bought both the RIA 1911A1 and a Springfield GI a couple years ago within the same week while I was working at a gunshop / range. Sent in the multiple handgun purchase form on myself.  The SA GI I bought for my partner and the RIA I bought for myself as a cheap beater. Turns out my RIA has been 100% reliable right out of the box with near 1800rds through it. It's turned out to be a fun shooter as well. I wouldn't hesitate to carry it if we had carry in this state. I find the trigger pull on the RIA to be lighter and smoother than my SA GI. |
| I have an RIA that was given to me as a gift. This is my first and only 1911. I am used to Glocks, so the trigger feels fine to me. I will probably never carry this gun as I prefer the Glocks as a defensive gun. I'm eventually add some basic sights, and ambi safety and bob the hammer. I am strictly utilitarian when it come sto guns, so the RIA fits my expectations. The parkerizing is fine for now. If it rusts, I'll refinish it with something else. If I was buying a carry gun I'd buy something else, but for busting caps this thing is fine. |
 I have. So has everyone else that has carried a m4 into harms way. lowest bidder wins. The rock is a fine 1911. goes bang every time you pull the trigger. Some people just name brand whores. And most people that bash it start their story off like this...this one guy at the range..... or my buddy got one... Whatever. spend your money how you wish, but the RIA works for me. BTW this thread need like 20 more clichés |
Your M-4 quote is off as only Colt makes a true "M-4" and those are to a set standard, not the lowest bidder. You get, as a general rule, what you pay for in the 1911 platform. To even attempt to say a rock bottom brand comes close to comparing to a top tier maker is a joke. 20 years and 20K of ammo from now, the true "value" will be shown. What makes RIA and other lower end makers sell is the fact that the majority of buyers put very few rounds thru them in their lifetime, shooters who launch lots of lead downrange in the 1911 platform tend to gravitate to the high end makers in pretty short order. Or, they have issues with them, sell them off, and spend the reat of their lives telling everyone that the platform sucks. If you get a good one, great, I'm happy, just don't expect $1000.00 plus performance in a $300.00 1911. |
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Well, I took the one I posted pictures of to the range today. No complaints. Right out of the box, it ran 150 rnds without a hiccup. The sights are a tad off, and will need to be adjusted, but the trigger is pretty nice, and it shoots well. With only having a 3.5" barrel, it barks pretty good, but it isn't horrible. I typically buy "quality" handguns, and avoid the cheap imports, but I have to say, for the purposes I purchased this for, I am extremely happy with it. We'll see if this still holds true a couple thousand rounds from now, but I suspect it will. My Kimber has it's place, and this little gun will too. |
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I think what gets a lot of RIA owners riled up are comments like "RIA is a POS", "RIAs are not dependable"," I would not trust my life with an RIA" and my favorite "save your money and get brand X". I haven't seen hundreds of post from RIA owners (key word is owners) calling them jam-o-matics. Also there are not stacks of bodies belonging to RIA owners who mistakenly trusted their life with an RIA. I would rather see comments like "RIA doesn't have the features I'm looking for in a 1911" or better yet “ I have never owned or shot an RIA with any frequency so I am not qualified to speak of them.” I personally don't like the melted Kimber look, I don't like the extended this and checkered that and I don't like custom guns built so tight that mud, dirt, rust, and other crap may mess with their function. I won't call Kimbers and their ilk crap, overpriced, pimp guns for Bubbas with cash, ect, ect. I will simply say it is not what I look for in 1911s. BTW I love the great names given to some of the "high end" 1911's, Night Hawk, Operator, Tactical Response, Talon, Reaper of Death......some fishing lures are made for fishermen. |
Most firearms owners shoot their firearms very little. Many, many, many owners posts I have shot 50,100,200,500 rounds and it's still working fine. That's fine for the average shooter as they rarely go 1000 rounds on a single firearm in a year if that. It's not a drop in the bucket to many others. I as many others here often shoot 500 rounds per range session. I have 1911's with 10s of thousands of rounds through them. I have yet to meet the RIA owner with a HIGH round count, Hench the hesitancy to proclaim it the wonder 1911 of the century. The RIA is an ok firearm for what it is. However it'll never be more than what it is. A value priced base 1911 made in the philiphines from castings. |
| I broke down & bought a RIA several months ago. I worked just fine out ofthe box. Now, & a few hundered dollars in part's & some time at the work bench, it's a realy good pistol. I don't necessaceraly believe that higher cost makes a product better. Although ther are many things that this applies to, the RIA is not one of them. While we are talking about lower priced 1911's, my Taurus PT1911 has somewhere over 5000 trouble free rounds through it. I also bought a slightly used High Standard 1911 a while back. I only have a few hundered rounds through it, but it seems to be ok. |
I love mine! Check out here: forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=17 |
| I love my RIA Tactical. Couldn't say the same for the SA Mil-spec I had. Thing was a piece of crap. My Tactical is my hunting & truck gun. I have no problems using it to protect myself or others. RIA are great guns at a great price. They weren't meant for precision shooting & if you check they were set up to shoot ball ammo reliably & not JHP, but myself & otheres have had great luck shooting JHP also. The GI model is great for learning to modify guns. |
Sorry my friend. I have to disagree with that comment - with respect to my experience. I have: Kimb1911 Full Size Colt 1991 Compact RIA 1911 The RIA out of the box is a better shooter than the bottom 2 guns. It is not as good as the Kimber - BUt -- RIA cost me $300 Kimber coat me $1100 As for the weapons- I carry the 1991 compact but the gun I prefer by the bed at night to protect me, my wife, and my family is the RIA. Everyone has an opinion. You just have to understand it is a $300 gun - not a $600- $1500 gun 
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Must not have shot one or own one. When I was in the Marines the 1911s that our Armorers had for us were worn out beat the hell out of weapons. I took it on my hip many a time......................... Today - I trust "my" RIA as much as I do those guns. |
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I have shot 100-200 rounds per week through my RIA 1911 since I acquired it in a trade about a year ago. I have yet to have a FTE or a FTF while using ball ammo. That puts my round count in the 4500-5500 range. Not to mention the rounds my buddy put down pipe. I like it and can hit what I am pointing at. |
Your post along with many others feeds into the misconception of what you are really getting. Granted you added the disclaimer of your "experience", but buying a pistol is not the purchase of a piece of metal that throws lead. It is far more involved than that. First, you are buying shootability. When you say "it's a better shooter", what does that mean? More reliable? More accurate? Both? If it does, you're still missing the picture. Shootability also applies to the feel of the trigger and the solidness/comfort of the shooting experience. Even if you account for this, (which most don't) your view is still myopic if it stops here. There is much more involved. In addition, you are buying the reputation, which differs significantly from the name. Reputation = liklihood you are going to be satisfied with the product. It's like insurance, you may have "wasted" money on a policy you never had use for (in hindsight), but you never know until it's too late. The more solid the company's product is and the more consistently it remains so, the more the reputation is enhanced. The more reputation is enhanced, the more the sellers jack up the price (hence the silly "over"-price adjustment of the Taurus). Of course, reputation is a speculation. The greatest outfits make lemons and the worst ones churn out a shooter sometimes. What happens when you have a lemon? How is the warranty? is it more than a year? Is it lifetime? Limited lifetime? Transferrable? Unconditional? You sure as hell better factor this in to the overall cost of the pistol as well. And what about customer service? Buy ten SA USGI pistols and see that 3 have to go back for service. Buy ten Taurus PT1911s and see 1 or 2 need to. Difference? Taurus customer service is so God awful you are better off selling the pistol honestly, and taking the reduced price to buy another than tangle with customer service. Not so with SA, even if they make more mistakes. Hassle free customer service falls in the plan as well. Finally there is the pistol itself. There is the quality of the steel (cast v forged) the quality of the parts, (MIM, tool steel, plastic, garbage) the fit and finish, and finally the features. All of these take up a significant amount of the price tag as well. So, if RIA is the better pistol IYO because it outshoots your Colt I see where you are coming from, but I can't say I see you getting the big picture. It's one pistol of many. Moreover, if Kimber decided to slash the $1100 price tag decided to slash material quality, devalue the warranty, use 3rd world labor, and get sloppy with respect to fit and finish it would have a pistol on par with your $300 wonder, but does that really make it a better buy? Shootability is the big component but it by no means is the whole enchilada. People get so cheap sometimes (not directing this at you in particualar) that they lose sight of what's really going on. |
Nice to have reps from the gun companies on the net to get the feel from the users of their products. Also nice to know that the you are a shooter. I have an RIA GI model, and I like it. It was the best father's day gift I ever got. I will probably upgrade some things to make it like your Tactical model. I think few people know about the Tactical model, and that is one hell of a gun for the money. You guys should advertise more. I have not needed it yet, but I have heard your customer service is great, and service to me is most important. A lot of higher priced gun companies have crappy service. |
Nice to hear from you, Ray. I'll tell you, the temperature of this thread has been rather mild when compared to the earlier days. Back then it was a real storm between fans who thought spending more was a waste of $, and detractors who considered RIA a complete piece of shit. These days, it may be fair to say that the heat of the subject has cooled down in part due to some of your statements. Niche Market: I think most of us agree here. If you accept a RIA for what it is and what it is not, then you have a competitive product against other makes in its class. QC: I have been hearing less chatter about the issues RIAs had in years past and if you are keeping on the ball with QC, you following will continue to grow with those in the market for your type of product. It will also serve as a lesson for SOME who seem to need a refresher course in QC. Customer Service: Gotta disagree with you there on Second to none, even without having ever accessed RIA customer service. When you are giving away $60 dollar grips away over a mild inconvenience I have suffered, assign me a personal CSR who fields all calls, and will take 30 min out of his day to sort through a parts bin while I can talk with him over the phone just to ensure we have a subjective color match that I want... well, then we'll talk about "second to none". But that's no big slight against your outfit. If you take good care of the customer AND have better QC, there is no reason why you won't rival if not usurp other favorites in the "bargain" spectrum of 1911s. Don't be a stranger on the board. |
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LV3GUNNER, I hope you read my earlier post about the banged up, but functioning Armscor 1911s in Haiti. One was missing grips until we found a flip plop in a trash heap, cut out two pieces and attached them to the weapon with 60mph tape. I wish I had photos. I also have no experience with your customer service dept., because I have not needed it. I think if I was starting to get chummy with your customer service dept. would start looking at different 1911s. I have run about 2k worth of ball through my RIA with no problem. I think it should be noted that Armscor of PI began banging out firearms shortly after WWII. I have seen police in PI and Thailand carrying Armscor 1911s (as well as in Haiti, Paraguay and Ecuador) and from what I understand they supply arms to police through the region. They are new to the US market, but not new to producing firearms |
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| Well I have to wade in here. On a whim I picked up a Rock Island Tactical. Took it to the range and put 400 rounds through it and was amazed at the accuracy, one ragged hole at 15 yards. I had no malfunctions of any kind. That got me hooked on 1911's again. Bought a Les Baer Premier II and headed to the range. In the first 400 rounds it doubled twice, tripled once and failed to extract several times. I found the factory shock buff shredded, took it out and replaced the recoil spring with an 18.5 lb. Wolff. Next range session I put 1,000 rounds through the Baer. No more full auto but had two failures to extract. I now have an equal number of rounds through the RIA without a single malfunction of any kind. The Les Baer is a beautiful precision instrument and I'll not part with it but is only slightly more accurate than my RIA. The Les Baer will certainly hold up longer but for the occasional shooter is the Baer worth four times as much as a RIA? |
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I bought a tricked out RIA I love it, and it is flawless, I got it for $375. It has Novac sights, a full length guide rod, an pachmyer grip, and a beaver tail, ambi safety, and a checkered mainspring housing, and a skeleton trigger. It shots like a a 1000$ 1911. and I don't cry if I drop it. |
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A couple of people here brought up castings as a reason for RIA's being cheap. I think we will be seeing a lot more companies using castings. The Nighthawk Vickers Tactical uses a Caspian Cast frame. here's the LINK If you read it, it might change how you look at castings. As far as the RIA 1911 is concerned. If you buy it, like it, and it shoots the way you want it to, then who cares what it cost you, or how much it should be worth. You like it and it works. That's what is important. If it will save your A$$ for $400. Then it is $400 well spent. |
You've got to disagree...without having any experience? That's some fuzzy logic. Go read the posts on the RIA page on M1911.org, they seem to take pretty good care of their customers, even on used purchases, owner induced problems and even GUNSMITH - REFINISHER induced problems. As far as basing your experience on "time spent", you're talking about your $1000+ semi-custom jobs, as compared to the obviously lower cost (and margin) products RIA is selling - how much time would they realistically need(or for that matter, how much time could they possibly spend based on their product line) to spend with a customer? |
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I was skeptical, but now I'm a Convert! I have always owned Springfield or Colt 1911s (with exception of a Dan Wesson Razorback because I had to have a 10MM again!) I bought a used RIA USGI in DuraCoat OD off the E.E. for less than $300 (much less in fact). I had the original tiny but correct USGI sights replaced with a set of Trujicons and have to tell you it is a great shooing pistol. Tight in all the right places, and with a lighter smoother trigger better than any of my Springfields! Yes it is made from a cast frame and slide. As I understand ALL of Springfields M-1A receivers are cast too, but I don't see threads about how they are "All shot out pieces of junk" after a thousand rounds or less. I've shot it a lot (not tens of thousands of rounds - (yet!)) but it always goes bang and puts the hole to the target exactly where it is supposed to. For the money spent, I feel I got a great value & shooter and I wouldn't hesitate to keep it next to my bed at night to protect my family. Hearing from the Rep about the company standing behind the product is just icing on the cake! BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Stop using reason! There's no place for that here. |
I don't have an RIA 1911 so I can't speak as to their quality but here is a nice Ford Pinto. !  I could take $5000 and my NIB 1980 Colt Government Model and have the best 1911 'smith in the world work on it and the usual naysayers here would trash it. Buy what you want and do what you want. I prefer Colt 1911s and new ones can be had for under $700. It's YOUR money and YOUR gun. Enjoy what makes you happy and ignore what doesn't. ETA: I can't spell worth a damn !
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Apples and oranges. I'm not a Baer fan, but once they "break in" (I'm not a big fan of the idea of having to "break in" a gun over $1k) they shoot very accurately and very reliably. Sort of like comparing a Subaru GL-10 with a BMW M5. Yeah the Subaru may have 100,000+ miles on it and only ever needed the oil/filters changed and the M5 may be finnicky as hell about...well...everything. Is the BMW a better car? Most would say "yes". But what make 1911's and BHP's (and high end cars...not like have or ever WILL have experience with them  ) different from say, Glocks (or Subarus) is pride of ownership. Don't get me wrong, I like my Glocks but I love my 1911's.I see the RIA's as definitely having a place. They're a great budget/first/WECSOG/truck/beater pistol. Would I buy one? Not at this point, but if I were a "poor student" again and was looking for my first 1911, I'd consider one. If I decided to start really doing some heavy duty 1911 tinkering, I'd consider one as a base. |
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My next two 1911 purchases will be a RIA and a Wilson Combat CQB. I have a Kimber now and it will probably get sold. I've shot the RIA and the CQB and I consider bothto be the best deal going in ther price range. As for the Kimber, it's either priced too high or the RIA is too damn cheap. |