Posted: 4/1/2007 11:25:59 AM EDT
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Hello gents, Looking for a hi-cap 1911. Shot the Glck 21 and the XD 45 but I'm still in love with the good old 1911. So . . can anyone offer advise on a hi-cap 1911 ? ? I know that P-O makes them ,but had a bad experience with P-O in the past. Not saying I would not give them a try, but what else is out there ? ? Thanks ! |
What's your definition of Hi-Cap? (More than 10+1?) |
I have an Entreprise Hi-cap frame, with a compensated colt slide and barrel. Shoots real nice, but I prefer a single stack myself. But that's a personal preference. Entreprise uses P-14 parts in their frames. |
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So does anyone have any first hand experience with those that are listed STI and SVI modular hi cap guns are EXTREMELY popular in USPSA/IPSC competition, where they are subjected to very high round counts. They perform very well, which is why they are the guns of choice in Limited, Limited 10, and Open divisions. Paras were commonly seen for a few years, but not so much any more. For about a year, I owned a P14-45 and put about 5k rounds through it. Sold it due to issues I had with it. My SVI .40 has over 40k rounds through it. No issues, still very tight and accurate. |
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I had a P14 LDA and I shot the hell out of it. I wouldn't buy a new Para today however. Moreover, I fail to see the logic in a Hi cap pistol for Joe Citizen these days regarding CCW. 1. They are concealability suicide, given the thickness of the weapon and their weight loaded plus spare mags is rather encumbersome. A stacked mag is significantly more concealable, easier to handle, and easier to shoot (IMO) 2. If Joe Citizen needs something more effective for self-defense than a rifle would be a better choice. If you are one of those uber-preparred types who insists on the worst case scenario for carry, then you are probably better off carrying 2 stacked guns that accept the same mag (i.e. Colt CCO + Colt Defender + 2 spare mags) than you are carrying a staggered pistol plus a bunch of mags. That way you have insurance against gun failure and SHTF you can hand the BUG to someone for coverage. |
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STI and Infinity (strayer voigt), these two brands are the only hi caps out there in my opinion. Both funtion 100% and conceal fine if you know what you're doing. For ccw dont use the extended mags or the extended mag wells. The double stack guns are not that much wider than the single stacks, just depends on which modle you buy. 14 rds. 45acp 22 rds 9mm. these mags fit flush by the way 
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Para and Springfield are pretty close to identical. Of the two I'd go for Springfield because it will probably hold up better. PO has had a rash of QC problems, so many tend to avoid them. There's a decent aftermarket for them. STI/SV are 99.5% identical too. STI is more of a production gun, where SV is more comparable to semi-custom. Sometimes they can be finicky out of the box, especially the STIs, but after some minor tweaks, they will shoot all day long and hold up for far more rounds than most folks are ever likely to see. Magazines are their weak point -- they are expensive and must be set up correctly. Caspian's hi-cap frame is a Johnny-come-lately. Mags are currently available only from Caspian as far as I know. |
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I'd go with the Springfield! www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=11 |
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pulpsmack, the grip curcumference on a STI "High cap" is about the same size as a wood gripped 1911. "By using a grip section made of lightweight polymer rather than steel, STI is able to keep weight of the standard Eagle at 34.5 ounces, which is over a quarter-pound lighter than Colt's all-steel Government Model. " "While the grip on the STI gun is the same width or thickness as the grip of the 1911 Colt, it is a bit deeper and that makes its diameter slightly greater. " article take with salt |
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As far as high-caps, Ive always heard the 1911s were unreliable and mags were VERY expensive. Out of curiosity, why do you need more than 7+1 or 8+1? BTW, Chip McCormick makes a single stack 1911 mag that is 10+1. They were decent. My personal feeling is, if you cant take care of it with 3 rounds, you're pretty much SOL. |
Dont listen to these guys that dont like Paras, they probably have zero first-hand experience with them.  P-14 Limited I've put at least a thousand rounds down range over the last year with it, from Speer Gold Dots to Winchester White Box to truncated cone and semi wadcutter reloads. Not one FTF, FTE, Stovepipe, or any other malfunction whatsoever. More accurate than I am and the double stack feels perfect in my large hands. If you have big hands, you will love the feel of a double stack. I highly reccomend it, the new P-14s are supposedly even better than this one. ETA: Whoops, wrong reload jargon. 
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For the same reason one would choose a Glock 21, HK USP45 or an XD45 Given any thought to multiple targets? |
Or you could do a search for "Para" and read what people who have had Paras say. Mine was a PITA. |
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I put at least 5k through my P14. Broken parts: barrel bushing firing pin extractor barrel link magazine baseplates Fixed them and sold it. In the 9 yrs I've had the SVI, I've put at least 40k through it, much of which was loaded to 180 PF (very hard on guns). No broken parts, excellent reliability. Go to an IPSC match and see how many M and GM shooters (the ones who shoot the most and have been in the sport the longest) are using Paras. Not many. There is only 1 top level shooter who uses Paras, and that's because he's paid to. |
I can only go back 30 days here, but every thing I've seen on arfcom is happening on high round count guns. On M1911.org, its the same thing. High round counts. |
Owned one, shot almost a dozen of them, some custom factory, some built by big name smiths. All had shitty factory parts and were picky as hell about running. Im glad you like yours. You got lucky. Im not betting a case of beer on one, let alone my life. |
5000 rounds is not a high round count. |
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Just an example for logic's sake: Manufacturer "P" makes pistols do not survive "high round counts". Manufacturers "ST" and "SV" pistols do survive "high round counts", and continue to work quite well . . . so well they are the overwhelming choice of high round count shooters at the top of their sport. I know which one I'd avoid.  |
so the chip mccormick 10rders work? I have always been skeptical of the really high cap mags, but they look like they might be fun for the range. which brand of single stack really high cap mags works most reliably? what is the biggest magazine that works? |
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Both the McCormick and Wilson are often used in USPSA L10 division where they both work very well. The Wilsons occasionally break the spot weld that holds the "tab" on the front of the mag (this keeps you from over inserting it into the pistol). Send the broken mag to Wilson and they replace it no questions asked. |
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Kimber also makes 10rd .45 mag are they any good? I am assuming that the 15rd magazines from mec-gar, promag, triple K, and national magazine are crap? any 15/20 round magazines that run well enough for competition? thanks for the info, I have been looking at a 1911, and I always like to have some really high cap mags for range fun. |
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If you talking about single stack mags, I've never seen anyone use more than a 10 round mag, so can't comment on them. Kimber makes a 10 round staggered mag for their double stack pistol. Wilson offers a similar one for their KZ45. If you are going to carry a full size 1911 with a double stack mag, an STI Eagle would be better than either the Para or Kimber. Way better. In every way. YMMV, but my experiences with promag, triple k, and usa were not good. Mec-gar can make great mags, have never used anyting they make for 1911s, so I can't comment on that. In USPSA/IDPA, some shooters get by with para's mags, but if they want them to run, you have to upgrade the spring, follower, and basepad. The para tubes are very rough, and benefit from internal polishing (compare a stock para mag to a stock STI or SVI mag, you'll see the differenence). Using a HD spring is very important, to overcome the friction of all those cartridges rubbing against one another, and against the mag tube. ISMI and Wolff offer upgraded springs (I prefer ISMI). The standard para baseplates are thin and break easily. Their +2 baseplates are better, but you need to upgrade the spring if you use a Para +2, or a Grams, Arredondo, or Dawson +4, etc. basepad. Kimber also makes 10rd .45 mag are they any good? I am assuming that the 15rd magazines from mec-gar, promag, triple K, and national magazine are crap? any 15/20 round magazines that run well enough for competition? thanks for the info, I have been looking at a 1911, and I always like to have some really high cap mags for range fun. |
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In USPSA/IDPA, some shooters get by with para's mags, but if they want them to run, you have to upgrade the spring, follower, and basepad I do this to my STI mags, just so I can 20 reloadable of 40. That and the Dawson Tooless Basepads are the Cats Azz. You wount find any magazine over 10 rounds of 45 in a single stack being used in USPSA compention. In USPSA we don't limit magazine capacity only length. Single stack magazines are ltd to 170mm in all divsions excpet Single Stack. In Single Stack you have 8 rounds max Major cal and 10 rounds max minor with magazine and gun fitting in what is an IDPA box. |
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Top High Cap 1911-type pistols...FACTORY GUNS: SV Infinity STI International Entreprise Arms Caspain Arms Springfield Armory/Kimber Para Ordnance I've owned or own pistol from all of these manufacturers and can say this. They all work well with SV & STI being head and shoulders above the rest. SV in particular is the best factory gun built. Period. Much better than many custom shop guns (especially from "custom-production shops" like Wilson, Baer and Brown). There's nothing wrong with a Para for the recreational shooter. For a serious competition pistol, it'll work, given you understand that you'll be changing most every part in there....as we ALL do it to all our guns ('cept maybe STI & SV guns). As for mags. The best replacement parts, are from Grams Engineering. No one comes close and if they do, it's usually 'cause they snagged Beven's design or made it close. When I shot an Entreprise full time, I ran Para tubes and full Grams guts and basepads and it NEVER jammed. Understand though it's a system for 100% reliability. You can have the best gun but with crappy maintenance, mags or ammo, it's going to fail. Single stack mags. The best by far are from Wilson. His 8 & 10 rounders are the best. Period. Nothing else to say about that. Rich |
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"P-14 Limited I've put at least a thousand rounds down range over the last year with it, from Speer Gold Dots to Winchester White Box to truncated cone and semi wadcutter reloads. Not one FTF, FTE, Stovepipe, or any other malfunction whatsoever. More accurate than I am and the double stack feels perfect in my large hands. If you have big hands, you will love the feel of a double stack." DITTO on all points. I have the same model. 1,000 rounds through no malfos. It is currently being customized with 20 LPI front strap, new trigger and action job.Factory trigger was decent, but could be better and the gun was "slippery" thus the 20 LPI. Should be ready in early May  . I am a serious recreational shooter. Shoot about 2,500 rounds through (3) 45 ACP 1911's.
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Well, I have a P14 and a P12 and they have been reliable, but the steel is soft and I have a lot more wear than I should. I don't dislike them, per se, but they aren't guns I will keep for the rest of my life. I have broken the slide stops on both of them (replaced with tool steel) and the extractors on both (ditto), and the amount of wear on the hammers of both (!!) is a little concerning. I have about 20,000 rounds through the P14 and about 10k through the P12. They will feed almost anything, I like the P14 a lot ... but I don't think that I will get another PO. The mags aren't that bad, also -- very durable and about $35 at a cop shop here in Houston. EDIT: I think that the bushing on the P12 broke almost immediately. I had forgotten about that. And the grip on the right side of the P14 cracked almost immediately. Para fixed both. EDIT again: Anyone have personal experience with a KZ-45? |