Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/15/2006 8:47:42 PM EDT
in some of my pistols and I'm sure in many other peoples, there is always a little copper fouling between the rifling grooves. Is this a big deal. I know some who advocate using ammonia solvents and getting it all out and others who say that it won't hurt a thing. (Shuemann thinks this way too, to leave the bore alone). What do you all do about normal copper fouling in your pistols?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:59:46 AM EDT
Im torn also between bore cleaning, I dont clean the bore except after every 500-700 rounds because honestly, thats when i notice it getting dirty.

As long as your not chugging away chemicals down your bore, i think once in awhile, you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:16:59 AM EDT
Take brass bore brush, get wet with Hoppes #9

Run brush back and forth completly through barrel 10 or so times, re-wetting brush as necessary

Let sit while you clean rest of firearm

When rest of firearm is cleaned, re-wet brush with Hoppes, and again, 10 or so times, back and forth, hit the bore

Soak a couple patches in Hoppes..first patch through should be very dirty, 2nd patch through should be somewhat dirty, 3rd patch through should be "ok" at best

Bore should be totally soaked still; let it sit there for a while more..say 20-30 minutes

Then, run clean dry patches through it. The first one or two should come out with some green on them...that's the copper.

There you go, a pretty damn clean barrel.



Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:21:37 AM EDT
You are wasting your time. Never, EVER clean the bore of copper fouling in your 1911.

Now I know you will ignore this good advice; but here is why you are wasting your time: (I posted this 1st on GlockTalk.com)

First off, yes I clean the ramp & chamber but NEVER ever touch the bore. Only thing that touches the rifling is bullets.

I can't claim this as an original idea. Rather, the barrel manufacturer for the 1911 barrels I use (.40 and .355"/9mm/.38 variants) suggested NEVER cleaning the bore. He was right. Here is the link to his advice:

http://www.schuemann.com/

Go to left side menu and click on "barrel cleaning".

Of course - he is only the guy who manufactures top match 1911 barrels from raw materials - what does he know?!?!

Either way you choose, leave it alone or waste time cleaning, its not a big deal. NOTE: I believe that you MUST clean barrels which shoot high power rifle rounds like 5.56mm, 7.65 etc) and if you shoot soft lead in some handgun barrels, then you may have to clean that lead out. I shoot only TMJs and jacketed bullets, so I never clean the bore. Do my guns perform? My GSSF team won 4 out of 5 team entries last year and I shot my way into B class in USPSA - all without a single barrel cleaning.


Feel free to put whatever sort of corrosive or hard bristle brush and grit-coated rod down your 1911 barrel, but for me, I see NO benefit at all to it & many potential problems.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:34:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CBR900:
You are wasting your time. Never, EVER clean the bore of copper fouling in your 1911.

Now I know you will ignore this good advice; but here is why you are wasting your time: (I posted this 1st on GlockTalk.com)

First off, yes I clean the ramp & chamber but NEVER ever touch the bore. Only thing that touches the rifling is bullets.

I can't claim this as an original idea. Rather, the barrel manufacturer for the 1911 barrels I use (.40 and .355"/9mm/.38 variants) suggested NEVER cleaning the bore. He was right. Here is the link to his advice:

http://www.schuemann.com/

Go to left side menu and click on "barrel cleaning".

Of course - he is only the guy who manufactures top match 1911 barrels from raw materials - what does he know?!?!

Either way you choose, leave it alone or waste time cleaning, its not a big deal. NOTE: I believe that you MUST clean barrels which shoot high power rifle rounds like 5.56mm, 7.65 etc) and if you shoot soft lead in some handgun barrels, then you may have to clean that lead out. I shoot only TMJs and jacketed bullets, so I never clean the bore. Do my guns perform? My GSSF team won 4 out of 5 team entries last year and I shot my way into B class in USPSA - all without a single barrel cleaning.


Feel free to put whatever sort of corrosive or hard bristle brush and grit-coated rod down your 1911 barrel, but for me, I see NO benefit at all to it & many potential problems.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson



thanks for that description, I read the sam thing on Shuemann's website, that is the reason behind this question. Thanks for the other replies alson. Much obliged.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:38:10 PM EDT
Well, if you DON'T clean the barrel, there are other problems that weren't mentioned.

For one, carbon fouling collects moisture like a sponge. Unless your barrel is stainless steel, it WILL eventually pit, rust, and become worthless. This obviously doesn't apply if the weapon in question is a showpiece stored in a controlled environment with almost 0 humidity, but if it's for a carry piece or something that's used outdoors in competition? A wet day will really throw things off.

If you shoot nothing but copper jacketed rounds, no big deal other than bore diameter will eventually change as the copper collects everywhere.

Lead will do that exact same thing, except much quicker and more extreme. It will collect and collect until it turns into a musket. If you shoot any lead, you NEED to scrub that sucker out after every session. With lead it will happen a lot sooner than anything else, but you get the idea.

Will not cleaning it hurt? It might depending on conditions, what ammo is used, environment, and what the barrel is made of.


Will cleaning it hurt? No. Unequivical no.


YMMV, but there's one guy saying don't clean, and we have hundreds of years of evidence to the contrary, saying we DO need to clean...

But, hey, it's your barrel

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:49:16 PM EDT
most i do is every 500 I rund a oil soaked bronze brush down the bore and patch for cleaning.

Some of the worst care takers of firearms I have seen are USPSA shooters, but the guns still function.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:43:26 AM EDT
Copper fouling is more difficult to remove than lead. I use a RCBS/Outtter's electronic cleaner. Plug one end with a cork, pour in the chemicals, hook up the wires; come back in an hour and you're done, no muss, no fuss. Metal on the grooves and lands will definitely affect the accuracy.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:34:39 AM EDT
i did the no clean thing with my AK shooting lots of wolf... and after about 3k rounds through the thing i take my bore light and look down the barrel...... smoothbore. took me a few hours with a brass brush and lots of hoppes #9 to get my rifleing back. but even with all that crud in the barrel it still shot pretty straight.

barnes CR-10 does a good job of removeing copper fouling and remington bore cleaner i like for those days i like to clean indoors.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 7:15:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
Well, if you DON'T clean the barrel, there are other problems that weren't mentioned.

For one, carbon fouling collects moisture like a sponge. Unless your barrel is stainless steel, it WILL eventually pit, rust, and become worthless. This obviously doesn't apply if the weapon in question is a showpiece stored in a controlled environment with almost 0 humidity, but if it's for a carry piece or something that's used outdoors in competition? A wet day will really throw things off.

If you shoot nothing but copper jacketed rounds, no big deal other than bore diameter will eventually change as the copper collects everywhere.

Lead will do that exact same thing, except much quicker and more extreme. It will collect and collect until it turns into a musket. If you shoot any lead, you NEED to scrub that sucker out after every session. With lead it will happen a lot sooner than anything else, but you get the idea.

Will not cleaning it hurt? It might depending on conditions, what ammo is used, environment, and what the barrel is made of.


Will cleaning it hurt? No. Unequivical no.


YMMV, but there's one guy saying don't clean, and we have hundreds of years of evidence to the contrary, saying we DO need to clean...

But, hey, it's your barrel




Never saw anyone hurt a barrel by shooting it, only by cleaning it. I shoot 500+ rounds of lead SWC through my .45 before I clean it. I get lead streaks, but never turned into a musket. Shoot a couple of jacketed rounds through, and good to go again. I think the bore cleaner companies invented the idea of cleaning after each range session.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:43:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TARFU:
Never saw anyone hurt a barrel by shooting it, only by cleaning it. I shoot 500+ rounds of lead SWC through my .45 before I clean it. I get lead streaks, but never turned into a musket. Shoot a couple of jacketed rounds through, and good to go again. I think the bore cleaner companies invented the idea of cleaning after each range session.



You've never shot a real flintlock, or used any corrosive ammo, I take it...those need cleaning.

Cleaning badly with a steel rod from the muzzle will ruin anything, it's about proper cleaning...I've never seen or heard of a barrel getting worse by cleaning from the breech. I've heard of and seen ruined muzzle crowns, but that's it, and a muzzle can pretty easily be re-crowned.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:02:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By TARFU:
Never saw anyone hurt a barrel by shooting it, only by cleaning it. I shoot 500+ rounds of lead SWC through my .45 before I clean it. I get lead streaks, but never turned into a musket. Shoot a couple of jacketed rounds through, and good to go again. I think the bore cleaner companies invented the idea of cleaning after each range session.



You've never shot a real flintlock, or used any corrosive ammo, I take it...those need cleaning.

Cleaning badly with a steel rod from the muzzle will ruin anything, it's about proper cleaning...I've never seen or heard of a barrel getting worse by cleaning from the breech. I've heard of and seen ruined muzzle crowns, but that's it, and a muzzle can pretty easily be re-crowned.




i have a black powder revolver that i once did not clean tell the next day, ill never make that mistake again.
Top Top