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Posted: 3/15/2006 8:33:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:41:15 PM EDT
All I can say is "Damn glad I don't own a Llama."
Thanks for the heads up.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:45:44 PM EDT
Wow Thanks for the reassurance of the shoddy craftsmanship.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:02:46 PM EDT
Whoa!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:06:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:06:59 AM EDT
They are on par with the High Points. 250$ for a 1911-frame.

I did get rid of mine after ~500rds. Mine was more accurate than his, but wasn't consistient.

They are out of business now though. So no worries.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:14:55 AM EDT
Come on now; pictures of the view down that barrel are a must!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:15:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:54:25 AM EDT
My first "1911" was a Llama MiniMax. That POS drive me nuts. Parts were not milspec, so I was stuck with it just like it was. Got rid of it in a hurry. And for some reason it didn't turn me off on 1911's.

My next two 1911's were Charles Daly's. One full-size and one Officer's. Both are still with me and have been flawless. I've never understood why some people lump Daly's in with Llama's. There's NO comparison in fit, finish, and functionality IMO...
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:42:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:54:24 AM EDT
Roger that Duke. Couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:01:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 11:05:05 AM EDT by _DR]
The Llama .45 I bought years ago would get about three shots off before stovepiping.
Traded it in and have never bought a Llama since.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:04:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
The Llama .45 I bought years ago would get about three shots before stovepiping.
Traded it in and have never bought a Llama since.



Ditto. When mine would actually eject a case beyond the slide it would hit me right between the eyes. It got to be so I was flinching not from recoil, but for fear of getting hit by cases. The gun was more effective against the shooter than any targets!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:05:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 11:05:58 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:

Ditto. When mine would actually eject a case beyond the slide it would hit me right between the eyes.




Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:00:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 6:02:02 PM EDT by mjw]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Ditto. When mine would actually eject a case beyond the slide it would hit me right between the eyes. It got to be so I was flinching not from recoil, but for fear of getting hit by cases. The gun was more effective against the shooter than any targets!



I experienced this same thing with a friend's Llama. First time it happened, I was all "wtf?!?!?!" This was with one of the older models that had the vent rib on the slide. I don't know if any of the newer ones do that or not. Very distracting stuff.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:07:21 PM EDT
There is nothing better than a good 1911, and nothing worse than a bad one.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:10:38 PM EDT
" In machinists terms your barrel and chamber are shaped like Gonzo the Muppet's nose, and a bullet will never fly straight out of there."






Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:14:47 PM EDT
I gotta laugh when I see a positive Llama story. Most of these posters like to tell you how they have had one for 5,10, 15 years, without any problems.
I suspect 15 trouble-free years equates to mebbe $30 worth of ammo......harles well mebbe the guys that like theirs, like to dine on 'reduced price' $1 a pound butt-roast as well.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:26:59 PM EDT
I and a buddy both bought llama minimax pistols. The serials were consecutive. His was a total lump of crap and mine worked like it should. It was not all that accurate but went bang every time I pulled the trigger. I lost it in a card game.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjw:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Ditto. When mine would actually eject a case beyond the slide it would hit me right between the eyes. It got to be so I was flinching not from recoil, but for fear of getting hit by cases. The gun was more effective against the shooter than any targets!



I experienced this same thing with a friend's Llama. First time it happened, I was all "wtf?!?!?!" This was with one of the older models that had the vent rib on the slide. I don't know if any of the newer ones do that or not. Very distracting stuff.



LOL, same here.

Shoot it sideways and you don't have that problem though.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:27:40 PM EDT
A lama spit on me when I was a kid. I'll never own one of those bastards. Send them all to the glue factory, sez me.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:59:04 PM EDT
I friend of mine briefly owned a Llama, and I'll say that I believe every word of your story. Worst jamomatic POS that I've ever seen, and sadly I think it was still a little bit better than your customers pistol! He sold it pretty quickly after figuring out that it wasn't worth a damn.

BTW: I'm glad to hear that you're treating your customer right on this, it would suck to have to shell out a bunch of $ for gunsmithing on a gun that probably wasn't worth it in the first place, and even afterwards still won't run well.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:04:53 AM EDT
My friends llama, had the back sight that slid to the left and right. One of the funniest things i've ever seen.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 7:57:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 8:07:20 AM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:36:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By Dan-357:
BTW: I'm glad to hear that you're treating your customer right on this, it would suck to have to shell out a bunch of $ for gunsmithing on a gun that probably wasn't worth it in the first place, and even afterwards still won't run well.



In all honesty when I first saw the gun I took it as a challenge. The first time I saw it, I knew that I had the ability to significantly improve what was there and I was curious to see just how bad it was once I tore it down to the bare frame. If you give me a Kimber CDP and ask me to do a trigger job, there's not going to be much improvement because it was grade A from the factory and I'm just trying to get it to A+ status. This thing was a grade F in every way, and I wanted to see how far I could take it.

The night I worked on the gun I kept interrupting my business partners who were also working at the shop. I would run up to them and say "Look at this! Have you ever seen this before? The sear is crooked!" Or I would say "You know, I've never felt the need to take a hand file to a 1911 type disconnect before just to knock off casting flash..."

So even though I didn't really make any money doing it, working on it was really interesting. If it wasn't for the catastrophic barrel problem I think I could have made it a passable beater gun, like a toolbox gun or glovebox gun. It would have gone from a grade F to a grade C. But the barrel problem is something I just cannot fix, nobody can, so that torpedoed any chance it had to be a decent firearm.



So accuracy issues aside, how reliable was it after you were done?
How many rounds did you test fire it with and how many failures?

Just curious. I have heard of smiths even removing material from the ejection port to enhance reliability on these Llamas
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:59:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:02:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 9:10:27 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
I'll test fire it Sunday. Want me to take pics?



Would be pretty cool if you did!

Just don't hold the Camera where your face would be or the brass might break the lense
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:21:36 AM EDT
I keep waiting for the punchline... is this truely a true story?

HOLY SHIT!!!

And I thought the davis P380 I bought years ago as a throw away was bad...
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:42:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 10:03:33 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By pistolwretch:

Charles Daly's and RIA's...... well mebbe the guys that like theirs, like to dine on 'reduced price' $1 a pound butt-roast as well.



Spare me the BS.

I dunno about RIA, but Charles Daly 1911's are decent pistols FOR THE MONEY. I have two of them and BOTH perform BETTER than two Springfields that I've had. I've put almost 2,000 rounds through them over the last several years. And evidently Patrick Sweeney in this "Book of the 1911" likes crap as well because he's smithed, shot, competed with, and tested EVERY brand of 1911 over the years and he puts Daly 1911's up against most of the non-custom guns out there. He keeps one handy in the safe. And he's not the first big name shooter and/or writer who's been impressed with the cheap 1911 that shoots like an expensive one. I don't care where a gun is made. HOW IT WORKS is what matters. And Daly 1911's are fine damn pistols. You can go back to your Kobe beef now...
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:29:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/17/2006 12:42:00 PM EDT by pistolwretch]
I'm sure Mr. Sweeney knows his stuff. I mean, he wrote a book did he not?hisEnjoy your Phillipino guns..........just don't carry one if you are watching my six, ok?
handy
Better than in his holster!
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 12:55:14 PM EDT
With your condescending attitude why would we want to watch your six?



From the brisket and rib eating owner of a RIA working on it's second thousand rounds without a hiccup.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:58:40 PM EDT
A Llama is a RETARDED horse
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 9:16:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By htuman:
A Llama is a RETARDED horse hr


Here, however, it's Spanish for "flame"...and, they have now flamed out.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:46:14 AM EDT

Just FYI, Llama and Bersa are the same company. It seems Llama is their "low end" line.

There is no excuse for a firearm that does not function correctly right out of the box.

This is where some will defend Bersa saying they make quality weapons, and perhaps they are better than their Llama division, but I question the integrity of any manufacturer that puts out products as shoddy as the "Llama" line of pistols. The fact that the Bersas do function better proves they are capable of better QA, they just choose to cut the corners and hope people will buy their junk.

Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:40:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:19:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 3:33:26 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
You could say the same thing about Century Arms guns, but most of them can be salvaged into guns that work at least decently. They just mass produce stuff with no attention to detail.

Maybe that's the way to go, they've certainly made more money doing that than I have with my little gunsmithing store. Sheesh...



Agreed. And the Century angry beavers do occasionally put out a good weapon, as well as a bunch of junk. I have had and gotten rid of some of Century's junk that didn't work and was not worth fixing(CETMEs), but also own and keep a century L1A1 that works flawlessly. They are very hit or miss and it's a lot like playing the state lottery. Occasionally you get lucky.

As far as getting rich on poor quality firearms, likely you have too much integrity and pride to do that or you would not be posting about attempting to fix a debilitated Llama!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 12:44:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 12:45:48 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 3:16:10 PM EDT
Llamas are SWEET!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:19:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnRippert:
With your condescending attitude why would we want to watch your six?



From the brisket and rib eating owner of a RIA working on it's second thousand rounds without a hiccup.



passing the 3k mark on mine.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:57:52 PM EDT
I made the mistake of buying a Llama as my first pistol. Its the worst piece of crap i've ever seen, been using it as a paper weight for a couple years now. It's had about 1500 rounds and never got off a whole magazine without a couple of failures. Would get rid of it, but wouldn't want to make anyone else go through life having to say they bought a Llama.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 2:31:57 PM EDT
I've always been impressed with the Llama's uncanny design which makes it point like a hairdrier...

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 2:39:06 PM EDT
Duke - I have spotted a smiliar problem that you and I face in our other professions. Honesty.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 4:01:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lithgow303:
I've always been impressed with the Llama's uncanny design which makes it point like a hairdrier...




It's dimensionally the same as a 1911 (at least the one I had).
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:19:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pistolwretch:
I'm sure Mr. Sweeney knows his stuff. I mean, he wrote a book did he not?
Anybody carrying one of his guns?..........................................mebbe I run in the wrong circles, but I've never seen or even heard of one.
Enjoy your Phillipino guns..........just don't carry one if you are watching my six, ok?


Edited to add:
Mr. Sweeney keeps one 'handy' in the safe?
Better than in his holster!




Two questions:

1) WHO ARE YOU again? I've been reading Mr. Sweeney's gunsmithing books and articles for years now. He's been a smith for many years and a competitor in rifle and pistol competitions as well. So WHO ARE YOU again?

2) WHO ARE YOU that I'd wanna "watch your six". Don't worry about me "watching your six" Rambo. I've got better things to do.


Oh wait... I've got another question for you... WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH CHARLES DALY PISTOLS? If it's heresay then forget it. I have REAL experience with both the Charles Daly brand and the Llama brand. The first is still ticking strong, the latter was junk. I really could give a crap if you don't care for Phillipine-made guns. Mine go bang EVERY time I pull the trigger and they hit the center-of-mass target EVERY time as well. I fail to see how your "superior" pistols or your smug attitude would be capable defending someone's "six" better than mine.
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