Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 1/7/2006 6:35:53 AM EDT
Getting into 1911, bought the $399 GI 1911-A1, read up on the forum and most said its a great starter gun, shot 90rnd the first time out and everything is peachy....

Then the 2nd time out, on the very last round (now at 150 rnds), it FTEject, the casing just sits there at the ejector port, with the ejector claw grabbing on to it, straight.

My first thought was: broken ejector. I came home to touble shoot, then I discovered its only jamming on the last round. Using 4 snap caps, the first three will cycle and eject, but the last one jams the slide in 3/4 open position, I'll have to take the mag out and push the jammed round down and out the mag well.

Hope I can resolve this so I can use the gun for a class qualification new month.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:43:41 AM EDT
Between the first and second trip you didnt buy mags w/ rounded followers did you . I had a similar FTE , but the case wasnt held in place straight and inplace in that case a new mil spev extractor fixed it up .
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:47:52 AM EDT
For some funny reason, Springer has put a weak magazine springs in thier mags. Replace the magazine spring with Wolff's 11 pounder. The mags are made by Metalform which is a good mag body and follower. I still don't know why the put the weak springs in them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:57:07 AM EDT
....you have tried different mags......yes?......if not...it sounds like possible spring pressure problem.........there are a few other things to look at but start there
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:19:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 3:32:48 PM EDT by wwp512]
thanks for the suggestions, I got out a brand new mag and it cycled all rounds through it the first time around, but then it started to jam 9 out of 10 times.

here's a picture of it, somehow that last round is not "kicked" out fast enough...?

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:35:28 PM EDT
btt...

it shouldn't be the extractor, correct? since it is only jamming on the last round.

and it may not be the mag, since I've tried it with a new magazine...

I guess I'll try to dissasemble the slide/ extractor to clean it...

Is it common with SA GI after only 150 rounds??

thanks
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:39:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 3:41:42 PM EDT by Rocklock]
I had a gun do that on a fired case .....and it was the extractor . But are you saying they jam nose high like the pic. ? On a fresh round trying to feed ?

ETA theres more extratctor claw than whats vis. right ?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:27:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocklock:
I had a gun do that on a fired case .....and it was the extractor . But are you saying they jam nose high like the pic. ? On a fresh round trying to feed ?

ETA theres more extratctor claw than whats vis. right ?



thanks for helping,

the pic is taken after I manually cycle the slides with dummie rounds in the gun. All but the last round will get jammed as in the pic, nose high. When I was at the range there's no bullet in the case, so the empty shell would sit straight in the gun, grabbed by the extractor.

more extractor claw?? I'm not sure what you mean? from that pic I think it is showing as much of the extractor as I think is "normal", I do wonder how come there's so much room from the claw to the breech, I though it should be about the thickness of the rim.. My GI looked like theres about 6mm space or so.. (maybe I'm wrong though )
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:39:12 PM EDT
Your etractor is fine...for now. What is happening is because it is a G.I. it has a very short ejector and the ejection port is not open enough to let the extractor do its job and kick these spent rounds out. So as the gun is cycling the spent round is bouncing around trying to get out. Thus, giving you the brass marks inside the port and deformed bass at the mouth of the spent round. This is why most modern guns come with a more open/flared ejection port and and a simi-extended ejector. It is failing to feed on the last round because all the other rounds bounced around causing the last round to come out of alignment, so when it goes to feed it is offset.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:20:04 AM EDT
..........pull the bbl out.....take a piece of 600 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.....roll it up to fit the breech and do a little throat polishing....take time and only take a little at a time.....look for burrsaround the breech area and polish down if any exist...also it won`t hurt to polish that area....it may take a few trial and repeat till you get it to cycle good....just don`t take too much!....i agree that a extended ejector would help but suspect that gun has a partial extended.....make sure they didn`t forget to polish the ramp...if so....do that to.....what type mags did you use...if i may ask??
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:36:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 9:41:35 AM EDT by wwp512]
I'm a newbie so the last 2 posts have already gone over my head, but I'm soaking all this good stuff up! thanks

just to get my terminology correct: breech-chamber-throat-barrel-muzzle, are those the names (and the order) of the path a cartridge? Then the breech-face is on the firing pin/ extractor side.

first JCG4s comment: I see the marks on the ejection port and read about the GI port is high, so I understand the brass marks inside the port ( the pic nicely demonstates that!) But what do you mean by "Your ejector is fine... for now? How many rounds can it last? It only has 150 so far.. I guess I'm confuse on ejector and extractor

2nd, BlackandGreen: breech and throat polishing, is that the frame or the barrel? I'm guessing "ramp" is on the frame and "throat" is at the breech, both are the semi-circle surface? Can I use a dremel with a bullet shaped felt tip and a little metal polishing compound?

and the megazine I use the one that came with the SA GI A-1 gun..

Again, thanks for putting up with the newbies...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:50:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wwp512:
I'm a newbie so the last 2 posts have already gone over my head, but I'm soaking all this good stuff up! thanks

just to get my terminology correct: breech-chamber-throat-barrel-muzzle, are those the names (and the order) of the path a cartridge? Then the breech-face is on the firing pin/ extractor side.

first JCG4s comment: I see the marks on the ejection port and read about the GI port is high, so I understand the brass marks inside the port ( the pic nicely demonstates that!) But what do you mean by "Your ejector is fine... for now? How many rounds can it last? It only has 150 so far.. I guess I'm confuse on ejector and extractor

2nd, BlackandGreen: breech and throat polishing, is that the frame or the barrel? I'm guessing "ramp" is on the frame and "throat" is at the breech, both are the semi-circle surface? Can I use a dremel with a bullet shaped felt tip and a little metal polishing compound?

and the megazine I use the one that came with the SA GI A-1 gun..

Again, thanks for putting up with the newbies...



What I mean: The Extractor is the claw type piece of steel that hooks on to the rear of the round aiding in its extraction. This is a picture of the Ejector:
Note there is no extension forward that would aid ejecting rounds out. (Just go to Brownell's.com and do a search for 1911 Ejectors and another search for Extractors to get a better view)

The Breach face is the area towards the rear of the slide where the Firing pin hole is located. The ass end of the bullet fits simi-flush against this area. If this area has some burrs it can cause problems with overall function. It does not however, need to be polished just cleaned up a bit. Using a stone file or some Very fine sand paper and a little lube will clean any rough marks.

To do a real quick spot check on your Extractor:
Remove the slide from the frame and dissasimble (removing the barrel, bushing, recoil guide and spring). Then take a round or (Safer) a snap cap and place it against the breach face and the extractor. Turn the slide upside down and right side up. If the round holds there is sufficient tension. As far as what I ment by your Extractor is "fine..." The Extractor is doing it's job however it is working against the other problems causing to work more. Thus, over time it may become out of tune. This is especially true with Springfield Armory guns because they use Metal Injected Molded (MIM) Extractors. Sometimes this process of manufacturing can leave the part softer than say a part forged or milled from solid steel.

I also have a 1911-A1 G.I. and did post a RangeReport in this forum and in the Springfield form. Please check it out as it may help. Let me know if you have any other questions and welcome to the fun and rewarding times shooting a 1911.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 2:59:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 3:04:05 PM EDT by wwp512]
Thank you JCG4s, for taking the time out to do some educational post, I'll surely pass that curtesy to the next newbie along the way.

I now understand and see the ejector, and extractor, I have a few other handguns and see that you're right, the ejectors on those guns sticks out but not the GI.

I have stripped the slide and cleaned the extractor, I noticed there's no spring associated with this extractor, I guess it is tensioned by design?(or did I popped a spring and not know it??)

You said "..overtime it may become out of tune".. By that you mean wore out? rotated? loss the flexibility?

The good news is that after I typed the my last post, I cleaned it as per above and no jams!!, tried 50 rounds at the range and everything is working good. ( the bad thing is I don't know EXACTLY what cause the jams) [ofcourse the good thing is I "fixed" it and now I'm not freaking out on it]

Nevertheless, if you have the time to answer my above questions, it will be much appreciated.

and I will read your rangereport, right now, the wife and kids are waiting for their steaks on the grill....
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:04:48 PM EDT
I don't suppose since the gun is brand new you might consider sending it back to springfield to correct the problem? Also a note on the lowered and flared ejection port. The standard GI ones worked fine and ejected over your head. The lowered and flared ones eject more to the side and if you are in combat you might eject a hot case into the collar of the buddy next to you. Not fatal but it will definitly distract him from focusing downrange for a moment! Also the lowered and flared ports help greatly with reloading as they are not as harsh on spent brass...Hog
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:22:38 PM EDT
Hey Guys,

I have had sporadic failure to return to full battery on the last magazine round only with two different Springer GI models. According to many, weak magazine springs may be the primary culprit. When this happens, it just takes a slight push forward on the slide to get the gun into battery. A gunsmith on the 1911 forums said that the 1911 is notorious for this type of FTRB and that it is caused by the last round in the mag actually being moved forward a little bit (during recoil from the previous round) and thus not feeding in the same controlled way that the other rounds feed. He said the 1911 is pretty much a controlled feed just like a Mauser claw design would be on a rifle. The weaker the mag spring, the more the round moves forward below the feed lips as there is less force to pin it.

However, I am perplexed by your reported problem. If I understand you right, the last round is feeding fine and firing but the case is simply not ejecting? I don't see why polishing the feed system would have anything to do with an ejection and/or extraction issue?

KK
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:29:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wwp512:
Thank you JCG4s, for taking the time out to do some educational post, I'll surely pass that curtesy to the next newbie along the way.

I now understand and see the ejector, and extractor, I have a few other handguns and see that you're right, the ejectors on those guns sticks out but not the GI.

I have stripped the slide and cleaned the extractor, I noticed there's no spring associated with this extractor, I guess it is tensioned by design?(or did I popped a spring and not know it??)

You said "..overtime it may become out of tune".. By that you mean wore out? rotated? loss the flexibility?

The good news is that after I typed the my last post, I cleaned it as per above and no jams!!, tried 50 rounds at the range and everything is working good. ( the bad thing is I don't know EXACTLY what cause the jams) [ofcourse the good thing is I "fixed" it and now I'm not freaking out on it]

Nevertheless, if you have the time to answer my above questions, it will be much appreciated.

and I will read your rangereport, right now, the wife and kids are waiting for their steaks on the grill....



Glad I could help. There is no spring for the Extractor. The Extractor is tuned by giving it a proper bend so that there is sufficient tension to extract the empty case. So "Out of Tune" meaning lose of proper tension.

I have had similar problems with my G.I. when I took it out on Fri, but it only happened twice and the rest of the session went fine. I am going to change the recoil spring to 18.5lb. This is what is in my Kimber and a I like it. If I still have problems then the gun will go back to Springfield. If you are still having problems then I recomend sending your gun back to Springfield Armory. If you think about it you really can't lose; either they fix the gun or give a new one and in the process you will learn more than when you started about the 1911.

Please keep us posted on the outcome and take it easy.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:36:17 AM EDT
...........in answer to polishing the feed system.......anything that can cause resistance will affect the dismissal of a spent round...........example...fire 150-200 rounds no problem.....suddenly last round (or whichever)....last round in this case.....stovepipes.........so to speak....thats because clearance in the chamber is so close that after so many rounds...the dirt/residue buildup is sufficient as to cause a expanded cartridge case to hang up resulting in a improper expell of spent case.....and it is always a good idea to polish the feed ramp....regardless.........if this gun were mine....i would; install extended ejector...polish the areas as dicussed (no dremel....hand polish).....buy chip mcormick shooting star mags (at least)......and break in before any competition..........
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:12:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 9:38:32 AM EDT by wwp512]
I took the advice of buying the SA/ GI-- something cheap to get me started in 1911, and I'm not regretting it a bit. The minor jams and problems to me is acceptable "you get what you paid" mentality. [on the other hand, if I decide to buy a $1000+ 1911, it better be near perfect!]

so after reading the posts above, my next question is:

to make the GI shoot more reliable, I should:

1. hand polish all the areas discussed

2. install extended ejector

3. "shooting star" magazine, or someone else mentioned stronger mag spring (opinion?)

Anything else I need to (or will run into later) upgrade?? NOTE if I need to spend >$100 I might as well save it for the next 1911...{which will be a whole other topic and discussions}

thanks

p.s. another newbie question.. is my SA GI a "commander 1911".. I've noticed not ALL 1911 are created equal.. need to know this so I can order the right part from MidwayUSA...

p.s.s. the factory mags are 7 rounders, do I need to stay with that? I've seen mags for 7, 8, 10...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:15:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wwp512:
I took the advice of buying the SA/ GI-- something cheap to get me started in 1911, and I'm not regretting it a bit. The minor jams and problems to me is acceptable "you get what you paid" mentality. [on the other hand, if I decide to buy a $1000+ 1911, it better be near perfect!]

so after reading the posts above, my next question is:

to make the GI shoot more reliable, I should:

1. hand polish all the areas discussed

2. install extended ejector

3. "shooting star" magazine, or someone else mentioned stronger mag spring (opinion?)
Wilson Combat mags are always a good choice (7 or 8 rounders)
Anything else I need to (or will run into later) upgrade?? NOTE if I need to spend >$100 I might as well save it for the next 1911...{which will be a whole other topic and discussions}

thanks

p.s. another newbie question.. is my SA GI a "commander 1911".. I've noticed not ALL 1911 are created equal.. need to know this so I can order the right part from MidwayUSA...
You have a Government Model 5" barrel
p.s.s. the factory mags are 7 rounders, do I need to stay with that? I've seen mags for 7, 8, 10...



I would just keep shooting and change things based on personal preference or if something breaks. Remember, while the production of 1911's have been standardized some parts (even the ones that say "Drop In") may not fit right every time. Keep your gun reliable and safe; if parts break send it back to S/A and have them fix it, if you are still having problems before changing any parts send it to S/A so you can take full advantage of their warranty. If anything they will perform a reliability job which would include polishing the areas you mentioned to get your gun to work right and most of all, keeping you happy.

Time along with plenty of shooting/practice will ultimately help you decide between modifications to your exsisting gun and buying a new one a couple levels up. Remeber your warranty is there for the life of the gun. If you send it back under warranty and S/A fixes the problem and you are happy with the results overall, then this too, will also help in deciding who to buy your next 1911 from.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:42:44 AM EDT
..........the bbl length is 5"........not a commander.....approx 1" shorter...commander....far as the mags...the important feature is the follower...chip mccormick shooting stars are like colt factory...if the sa mag has a solid type follower.....the piece on top....i would buy at least one mag...shooting star..about 13 dollars....and experiment.....you can go with eight rounders should be no prob....matter of fact....get a 8 rounder and cycle 7 rounds through it...see if your problem goes away ???...get midway on the screen and order up a mag or two....it `s usually good to play with different bullet types too....just for your own info...but that gun should pretty much run any type...if it`s running good....don`t forget..it needs some break in time too....have fun.............
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:25:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 6:31:20 AM EDT by wwp512]
thanks again, you two I'll keep those suggestions in mind.

I'm done analysing my GI and I'm just gonna shoot it for now.
Top Top