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Posted: 12/10/2005 11:34:20 AM EDT
Would you trust your life on a 1911A1? Or is the 1911A1 considered to be "too fragile" because there's so many parts?
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 11:36:18 AM EDT
I carry one every day. I'm certainly not carrying it because it's pretty.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 11:46:55 AM EDT
Fragile. Yeah. That's the ticket.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 11:49:24 AM EDT
I'd trust my life to training, experience and skill with a 1911. The gun isn't going to do anything by itself. If you mean would I trust my life to a 1911 reliably performing the tasks I apply to it - then the answer is yes.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2005 12:01:10 PM EDT by ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted By Fglocker_Plz:
Would you trust your life on a 1911A1? Or is the 1911A1 considered to be "too fragile" because there's so many parts?



Interesting factoid: the 1911 was the main sidearm of the U.S. military from 1911 until 1985 (or thereabouts). It was replaced because it did not fire a NATO standard round more than anything else, and not because it was fragile.

Would I trust it to go bang when I squeeze the trigger? Yes, yes I would.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:03:22 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:06:59 PM EDT
Yes I do.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:50:19 PM EDT
Yes. The 1911 is a combat pistol. It is not fragile. Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd bet the 1911 has seen way more combat than most other pistol designs.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:51:56 PM EDT
You're kidding, right?

As an Army MP I carried a 1911 on a daily basis so I did trust my life to it. Although the M9 came into service in the mid 1980's, the 1911 was still in wide spread service until the early 1990's.


Originally Posted By Fglocker_Plz:
Would you trust your life on a 1911A1? Or is the 1911A1 considered to be "too fragile" because there's so many parts?

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 12:57:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2005 1:00:30 PM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Originally Posted By Fglocker_Plz:
Would you trust your life on a 1911A1? Or is the 1911A1 considered to be "too fragile" because there's so many parts?



Interesting factoid: the 1911 was the main sidearm of the U.S. military from 1911 until 1985 (or thereabouts). It was replaced because it did not fire a NATO standard round more than anything else, and not because it was fragile.

Would I trust it to go bang when I squeeze the trigger? Yes, yes I would.



To go off on a tangent here, why didn't they just go buy the 1911 chambered in 9mm then? (Yes, I know the politics about Berreta and Italy and bases.... or at least that "excuse" has been used.) That would have solved the issue of non standard.....

I carried a full sized 1911 in 38 Super for a few years when I first became legal. Went to a Glock 27 40 because I wanted to retire it, plus I couldn't hid the 1911 very well (father's old gun, made in 1947). I eventually did replace my old 38 Super w/ another 1911 (well, a hybrid..... LDA Para 9mm w/ a 38 Super barrel in it....18 rounds baby).

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 1:15:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 1:27:02 PM EDT
I would trust my life on almost any gun that was well built, reliable and fairly accurate and it was a gun that I could shoot well with...Yes, I would carry a 1911-A1.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 1:36:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
I carry one every day. I'm certainly not carrying it because it's pretty.




+1.

There's one on my hip right now.

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 1:38:09 PM EDT
My 1911A1 is a springfield. I would not use it for self defense due to the several MIM parts, lack of night sights and only 8 round capacity.

I'll stick with my Glock 19 on the clock and my Glock 26 the rest of the time.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 1:41:10 PM EDT
Every day since since 1991.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 3:15:30 PM EDT
Uncle Sam used it for general issue for over 70 years through 4 major wars, only going the the M9 because the 1911s were worn out (the newest were produced in WW2, and at that time were 40+ yrs old), and because NATO wanted a 9mm cartridge. Not because the 1911 had problems.

The 1911 is the sidearm of choice for FBI SWAT/HRT, USMC Det 1, USMC MeuSoc, FBI SWAT, and other top-notch orgs.

1911s have gotten a bad rap over the years for a variety of reasons, from being "too powerful", to being "innaccurate" (the GI sights could have been better for target shooting, but were plenty good enough to kill bad guys, just look at Alvin York's example), to being unrealiable (often due to using GI mags to feed JHPs, something they weren't designed to do - the aftermarket has solved that problem very well), to being "old-fashioned".

If you buy a good 1911, you probably won't have any problems. Just as anyone can put together a black rifle that looks like an AR15, anyone can put together a pistol that looks like a 1911 and bring it to market. There are many quality makers of both designs, and also poor ones.

SF

PS - I use one as my LEO duty gun every day.

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 3:29:51 PM EDT
To go off on a tangent here, why didn't they just go buy the 1911 chambered in 9mm then? (Yes, I know the politics about Berreta and Italy and bases.... or at least that "excuse" has been used.) That would have solved the issue of non standard.....

Colt engineered 9mm retrofit kits, which they proposed to US Gov't, but one of the essential problems is that you needed a new slide because you can't make 9mm work reliably with a .45 breechface. The fix required a totally new top end for the pistol, and also magazines.

The cost of this fix approached the cost of a new pistol, and you'd still be using frames that were between 40 and 70 years old, in varying states of serviceability. Many were simply worn out.

If you do a google search about the XM9 trials, you could probably find more info.

Beretta and Sig tied in the XM9 trials, with Beretta submitting a lower bid, thus they won. As to bases, who knows?

If you want to talk fragile, how about the locking block fractures, and also the slide separations with the M9s? This occurred with NATO ball, not just Seals shooting subgun ammo. I know a guy who had a small scar on his right cheek from a slide separation, and he was in the Army.

While I was in the Marines, I owned a 5 to 10 year old W. German stamped P226 with about 5k through it. It rattled just a much as my 50 yr old Remington Rand 1911.

FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 3:36:45 PM EDT
I'd trust a 1911 in a heart beat, any day any time (but not any maker... some are better than others...)
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 3:46:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BerlinVet:
no



ban him


I do, and there no other finer handgun than a 1911, Period



this thread should be lock now

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:10:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:47:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2005 8:56:54 PM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By a38337:
To go off on a tangent here, why didn't they just go buy the 1911 chambered in 9mm then? (Yes, I know the politics about Berreta and Italy and bases.... or at least that "excuse" has been used.) That would have solved the issue of non standard.....

Colt engineered 9mm retrofit kits, which they proposed to US Gov't, but one of the essential problems is that you needed a new slide because you can't make 9mm work reliably with a .45 breechface. The fix required a totally new top end for the pistol, and also magazines.

The cost of this fix approached the cost of a new pistol, and you'd still be using frames that were between 40 and 70 years old, in varying states of serviceability. Many were simply worn out.

If you do a google search about the XM9 trials, you could probably find more info.

Beretta and Sig tied in the XM9 trials, with Beretta submitting a lower bid, thus they won. As to bases, who knows?

If you want to talk fragile, how about the locking block fractures, and also the slide separations with the M9s? This occurred with NATO ball, not just Seals shooting subgun ammo. I know a guy who had a small scar on his right cheek from a slide separation, and he was in the Army.

While I was in the Marines, I owned a 5 to 10 year old W. German stamped P226 with about 5k through it. It rattled just a much as my 50 yr old Remington Rand 1911.

FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Ah, thank you....




Originally Posted By Fglocker_Plz:
Would you trust your life on a 1911A1? Or is the 1911A1 considered to be "too fragile" because there's so many parts?



John Moses Browning designed the 1911! Many of his designs for guns have been used since he came up with them! The Browning Auto 5 is one gun that "just" stopped production in the late 90's (if I recall). He designed the B.A.R. used in WWII (fired the 30-06 case). He designed the 50 BMG round and gun. His foot print is still felt in the firearms industry and will be for years to come.

Here's a link about him: Text on Browning
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:58:03 PM EDT
I'll take a well built 1911A1 ANY day, in fact, I carry one every day...

Link Posted: 12/10/2005 9:12:37 PM EDT
Do they make other pistols? When did this happn?

:)
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 4:31:18 AM EDT
Carry a stone dead stock series 70 Commander daily. It is kept "clean" and I use only Wilson magazines. You must know when internal parts are worn, if they require fitting when they are replaced, and above all other things you must practice religiously and seriously.

If you apply this to most commercially produced pistols you will, with a few exceptions be sucessful.

I choose the 1911 Browning design for it's reliability, simplicity and durability and it's choice of cartridge. Are there new pistols that are better? I certainly don't know because i have never been put in jepordy by an equipment failure, hence I do not fix what is not broke.

Somewhere as I write this an American military man is "outside the wire" with a 1911 Clone, perhaps modified, doing business, he is probably a SPECOPS person and allowed the latitude to use what works. I am retired from the Army now 6 months after 26 years and I do not believe you can argue with success.

The shorter answer to the question asked is, " yes I do".
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 4:34:13 AM EDT
damn straight! It's one I carry
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:08:31 AM EDT
Nope! Guns are icky, especially those old relic jam-o-matics you can't hit the side of a barn with!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:11:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By a38337:
FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Who was issuing 1911s in 94?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:17:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 6:18:44 AM EDT by CockedandLocked]
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:40:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By a38337:
FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Who was issuing 1911s in 94?

A good portion of the Army Reserve! My last unit didn't see M9's until 96 or better.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:48:34 AM EDT
Yes, I would trust my life and the life of my loved ones with a 1911A1. I do it all the time.

Fragile? I've used my series 80 Colt (with the plastic MSH) to pound tent stakes in the ground. Try that with combat tupperware!
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:49:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By a38337:
FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Who was issuing 1911s in 94?

A good portion of the Army Reserve! My last unit didn't see M9's until 96 or better.



I didn't know any Marine units outside of the MEU (MAU) SOC FR Platoon was still using them at that point. Even at boot camp in the 80s I fam fired on the M9. I never touched a 1911 in the military until I shot a MEU-SOC 45 when a friends Platoon was co-using the range with my Battery in 02.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:51:28 AM EDT
Who was issuing 1911s in 94?

PMO

We got M9's later that year

SF


Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:57:00 AM EDT
I do, but I know the ones I carry are 100% reliable (when kept maintained). There are other pistols that I find are acceptable though but I've carried the 1911 more most because I'm better with it in many regards.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:03:24 AM EDT
Roger
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:03:47 AM EDT
Yes
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:09:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JLH3:
Do they make other pistols? When did this happn?

:)



You mean there is another caliber besides .45 ACP and .45 LC? I have trusted my life to a 70 Series Govt Model since 1983. My wife wants me to get a Glock .45 for increased mag capacity. Nothing against Glocks, I am just too darn comfortable with my Govt Model.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:15:42 AM EDT
A good 1911 all the way. It has two graces a 45 cal 230 gr hunk of lead. If you run out of ammo you can use it as a battle hammer.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:33:01 AM EDT

My 1911A1 is a springfield. I would not use it for self defense due to the several MIM parts, lack of night sights and only 8 round capacity.

I'll stick with my Glock 19 on the clock and my Glock 26 the rest of the time.




Let me get this straight - you WON'T bet your life on MIM parts, but you WILL rely on injection-molded plastic parts and parts stamped out of low carbon sheet steel??

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:09:45 AM EDT
Why yes I would, it's not the most popular pistol in the US for nothing. I would trust my life with one of my 60+ year old GI ones as well as my newest Defender.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Why yes I would, it's not the most popular pistol in the US for nothing.


Amazing what a low price will do huh?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:26:10 AM EDT
Every day.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 10:27:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By a38337:
FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Who was issuing 1911s in 94?



The recon element of 15th MEU.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 10:31:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p-dog:

My 1911A1 is a springfield. I would not use it for self defense due to the several MIM parts, lack of night sights and only 8 round capacity.

I'll stick with my Glock 19 on the clock and my Glock 26 the rest of the time.




Let me get this straight - you WON'T bet your life on MIM parts, but you WILL rely on injection-molded plastic parts and parts stamped out of low carbon sheet steel??




Yep, Glock has 20+ years of proven preformance. MIM 1911 parts do not. My Glock 19 has 40K rounds through it with less malfunctions than my 1911 that has only 1800 rounds through it.

Would you carry a pistol you knew was less reliable than other options just becuase its a .45acp or 1911A1?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:28:07 AM EDT
yes I would, do and will continue - and it worked when needed
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:29:04 AM EDT

Would You Trust Your Life On A .45ACP 1911A1?


Yes and I will continue to.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:42:20 PM EDT
Whats MIM?

John
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:24:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rcav8r:
Whats MIM?

John



Read the tacked thread at the top of this forum. Or just picture those pot metal cap guns you had as a kid.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:43:18 PM EDT
Yes, but sometimes I do wish for higher capacity like a Glock 21.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:02:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Why yes I would, it's not the most popular pistol in the US for nothing.


Amazing what a low price will do huh?



Low price? What was that stuck in there for? Almost none of mine are what you would call "low priced" by any means, and even IF they are low priced, the ability to change out parts to better ones is unsurpassed in the handgun world. There is no gun out there, new or old, that has the selection of parts for it, bar none. Not Sig, not Glock not anything.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:10:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By a38337:
FWIW, the Marines were never in favor of XM9, and continued to use the 1911 as long as possible. In 1994 when I arrived at K-Bay, I was issued a 1911 for my duty pistol, although I had used a M9 when I was in Va in 90.

SF



Who was issuing 1911s in 94?



The recon element of 15th MEU.



Yah, that kind of goes along with the statement "I didn't know any Marine units outside of the MEU (MAU) SOC FR Platoon was still using them at that point." And it would only be the FR Platoon, (DAP) platoon for the east coast MEUs, since the Radio Recon, STA platoon and Bat Recon are all recon elements.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 2:23:24 PM EDT
Where's that quote, about having no apologies for a 1911......something about the 1911 being designed for combat, and an age of gunfighting.....

Should use that quote as my Sig line.....anyone?!

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