Posted: 11/14/2005 6:34:01 PM EDT
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Hi guys, Long time AR shooter/poster and here I am on the 1911 board. First off, let me say, I've got a 1991A1 Commander that I shoot regularly. I enjoy the pistol but I want a full size. I've got the top end of a Remmington-Rand (barrel, slide, mainspring, etc) and I am thinking of building it up using either an Essex or Sarco frame and the Sarco internals kit. All this will be is a bare bones 1911A1...no rail, no laser/optical/tactical hooha AM I NUTS??? I've built 2 AR's and have done a little 'smithing but nothing serious. Is this even an option for someone with limitted experience? It seems like it'd be a cost effective way to go about it, ...or is it? Since I've never dipped a toe in the pool of the 1911, I'm asking YOU GUYS for advice. 1) Is this within the relm of possibility? 2) Are the above mentioned frame and parts choices viable? 3) Is there a better way to go about this? 4) Is this a cost effective plan of attack? Thanks for the input ka BTW, can anyone recommend a board other than M1911.org. They didn't seem to have a whole lot to offer to a builder. thx. |
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Well, before the slew of posts recommending buying a SA milspec and "tinkering" let me say that I built a 1911 from parts and a Caspian frame and slide and it is my first and right now only 1911 (but not for long). It was not as difficult or mysterious as some "'smiths" would like us to believe. You'll need some tools and Jerry Kuhnhausen's books, but you should do fine. Buying a SA and building off of it will probably save you some $$, my build cost about $800.00, and I don't have many "premium" parts, but they are all from good companies, ie Wilson, Nowlin, SA, STI and CMC. You'll need the following for sure: Kuhnhausen Vol 1 Kuhnhausen Vol 2 Plunger staking tool There are more, if you're doing a beavertail safety for instance. This should help too: 1911 Govt schematic Everything used in my build was purchased at Midway. Here's a pic of my build, I put 'er all together myself and even did the parkerizing:  Check out these websites too: Roderus Blindhogg Good luck with the build, post pics when you finish it. Good 'smithin' |
I wouldn't say that you sounded snobish  just opinionated like a Jarhead should  , and nice build.+1 on the Hobbsmiester  Semper Fi Steve |
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My neighbor just buitl a 1911. Only he is an Agent for the FBI. The armours school was taught by Springfield. He wound up learning how to build and maintaine 1911 HRT pistols that the Hostage Rescue Teams use. Took him a full week to put it together. Then it went off to Ted Yost for a milled top slide with groves cut into it. Novac rear sight and a fiber optic front site. It is so tight ,I can't believe it. But, that's how they get them to hold 2" groups @50 yards! They used a Kart barrel & all Wilson GOOD parts to assemble it. Everything hand fitted. Barrel & bushing wasn't too bad and they say that's 95% of the accuracy. The hardest was peening the rails on the frame oversize & hand fitting the slide . So, take a bare frame & slide, throw away all the small parts. Get a Kart barrel and the best parts Wilson offers and you too can buils a $4,000 1911! |
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Allright, I'm seeing a pattern here. It is looking more and more like there is a Springfield or A/O bare bones 1911 in my future. I'm not looking to build a MEU-SOC clone or a HRT pistol. All I want is a representitive Mil Spec 1911. I should have jumped on the Sistema bandwagon back when they where available for under 300.00 ... but I didn't. Thanks for the info guys. ka |
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+1 on buying a Mil-Spec Springfield 1911, "loaded" or not, and do as much of your own work as you are comfortable with. But there's an old saying you need to remember , "There's No Such Thing as Drop-In Parts". Sure, some fit better than others, and don't skip on quality. But even some of the best parts need hand-tuning and that's where the "art" comes in. Start with a quality base gun, find a good smith and pay for his expertise. Even a base-level Springfield GI.45 Repro can serve as a good base for a customized project. |
Why is it that the AR platform goes together like my 6 year old's Lego's but a 1911 needs to be hand fitted? Wasn't it Ely Whitney (the Cotton Gin Guy) that invented interchangable gun parts? I mean, really, how did the US military swap parts in the field during a field strip or at the depot level? Seems like too many variables to me. ka |
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Well, I've built one AR and I've built one 1911 (so far). No offense to anyone, but ARs are easier. They are designed to be like a lego set. Put notch A into slot B, tighten to spec... and so on. 1911s require a little more finesse in the fitting area. I think most of it comes down to accuracy, and where accuracy is derived in the system. An ARs accuracy is largely determined by the barrel extension and the barrel. Since most builders buy these two as a unit, already put together, the rest is just installing the components around it to make the rifle function. A 1911s barrel moves when the gun is fired, which means that lock-up is very important to accuracy, and all the tolerances must be as close as you can make them to squeeze every drop of accuracy out of the gun. There are drop-in parts, and a gun built entirely with drop-in parts would function, but accuracy would be lacking. If you start with the loosest fit possible, to ensure easy fitting, and then stack those tolerances over (arguably, with the barrel hood)4 points of contact for the barrel, plus the frame and slide, and not even mentioning the link, etc.. you get a loose fitting gun that will work, but not shoot very accurately. I think the ability to put together a "lego" set and have a tackdriver is the appeal of the AR. You don't have to be a "gunsmith" so-to-speak, just have some tools and some mechanical ability. With a 1911, if you want accuracy you have to do a lot more than turn a few wrenches. Hours of hand fitting, most of which requires 2-3 file strokes, put the whole gun together and test, then pull it back apart to make 2 more file strokes and try it again. It's still not "gunsmithing" in the sense that you need a Bridgeport Mill and 20 years experience, but it's significantly more involved than the average AR build. Guys with big mills and experience are the ones building the $3,000 1911s that are amazingly accurate, and most of us can't do that, but my build will shoot 2-3/4" groups @ 25 yards with no rattle at all, and it just took some files and a whole lot of time. |