Posted: 7/26/2005 5:26:34 PM EDT
| I am sure this has been asked 10,000 times but this is the first time I have ran into this problem with my own 1911 so I need to ask. When I was at the range today me and my son were shooting my SA loaded service model and had multiple failure to feed issues. We never had an extraction problem though. Most of the malfunctions consisted of the slide locked back and a round sort of floating out of the mag but not seated all the way in the chamber. Once I think the slide came forward some but did not go all the way forward with the round still kind of floating but not all the way in the chamber. It was not like a jam where the bullet is halfway in the mag and half way up the feed ramp. The bullet is all the way out of the mag. All the parts on the pistol are factory and I was using three types of mags 1 Factory seven rdrs 2 Shooting Stars 8rd 3 mitchel 8rd. Any input would be greatly apriciated. |
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I've seen mags, ammo and the slide stop cause the slide to lock open with ammo in the mag. I would try different ammo and a different mag to start. Most people swear by Wilson mags, although I'm not one of them, you might try a Wilson mag with another brand of generic ball ammo. If that doesn't do it, the problem could be with the slide stop. Hopefully others will chime in. Scott |
I would try a different mag also. |
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It does not sound like a mag issue if the rounds were all the way out of the mag. Were the rounds completely horizontal and the gun almost closed? Or, were the rounds slightly tipped nose up and the rim just slightly out of the mag? If it's the first, you have a failure to return to battery. If the second, you have a failure to feed. Both can have one or several causes. The second is easier for the inexperienced to fix. If you get a chance, take a picture of the malfunction. If the slide was locked back with the slide lock up, and the round out of the mag sitting on top of it, then I can see it being a mag problem, but this kind of malfunction is rare. IF that's the case, throw the mag/mags away, and do what the guys above said. Failure to feed (caused by too much extractor tension):  Failure to return to battery (in this case caused by barrel hood too wide for slide): 
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Did the problem occur with both of you or only one of you? It is possible to have your weak hand thumb resting below the the slide stop and inadvertantly exert upward pressure on it causing premature slide lock. I purchased some parts as spares to keep in my range bag. I also function tested them to make sure they would work. The Ed Brown slide stop I bought occasionaly locks the slide back with rounds in the mag. I haven't spent any time figuring out why. It may need a little shaping or material removed. |
It did happen with both of us and the round was all the way out of the mag and the slide was locked back I believe every time but one. What do I do if the barrel hood is to wide for the slide? |
Thought the same thing except that the slide is locking open. Try some other mags and if that doesn't eliminate the problem then send it back to Springfield and let them fix it. They have a lifetime warrenty and may even send a call tag via UPS if you ask. 1911's can be tricky at times, I've played with them for about 5 years and I'm still learning everyday. Good luck! Scott |
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GenghisKhan, let me ask some very specific questions before I go to bed, since this sounds completely strange. If you can't answer a question for sure, don't sweat it. I'm just very curious about all of this, as it makes little sense. Malfunctions like you describe are rare. Rarely does a failure to feed or failure to return to battery also have slide lock. -You said the slide was locked back all but one time. This is the most important question. Was the slide stop locked up into the slide stop notch in the slide, or was the slide simply in the rearward position being held back by the cartridge? -How did you clear these malfunctions, and what happened? -What ammo were you using? -Has this ever happened before, and was this the first time you shot this gun? -Did it look like either of the above pictures with the slide almost all the way forward? -When malfunctions occurred, was tehre any pattern as to how many rounds were left in the mag? Did this only occur when you were on the last round? Anyway, it's hard to diagnose the real reason without seeing the malfunction. I doubt your barrel hood is too wide. You can see how far forward the slide is in a failure to return to battery, or failure of the barrel to lock. It sounds like I mistook what you said in the original post, and that the slide was locked all the way back. |
To the best of my memory my slide was locked back. I cleared the malfunction by droping the mag and then the other bullet fell out winshester white box yes it happened twice in about 500rds once it looked almost all they way forward no pattern except it did happen mostly with the last round in the mag. I think the slide was locked back but worked the slide with the new mag so I can not remember if I dropped the slide release. thanks for the help. |
I posted before but I guess I pressed the wrong button instead of submit. 1. I thought the stop was locked but I did not look at the slide stop because the slide looked like it was locked all the way back and the bullet was free in the pistol. 2. I dropped the mag and dumped the bullet out of the slide at the same time. 3. Winchester white box. 4. on one the slide was almost all the way forward. 5. Most of the time when it happened it was on the last round and more often with the mitchel mags than the shooting stars and more often with the shooting stars than with the 7rd factory mags. Thanks for the help. |
| Did the slide seem sorta "stuck" then come back and pop the round out? I had some PMC do EXACTLY the same thing. Ended up being the rounds out of spec and to wide for the chamber. These were the PMC plated stuff and I think after coating them with copper they were out of spec. If you have a tight chamber and out of spec ammo this can happen. I went with some S&B and have never had a problem since. BTW this was a SA SS Milspec. Try some different ammo first, if the problem still occurs you could have a tight chamber or other problem. Send it back if under warrenty, if you mess with it you could void the warrenty. |
Okay, last questions, I hope. When you pulled out the mag, did it just drop out when you hit the release, or did you have to pull it out? How old are your mags, if you bought them new? If you bought them used, do you know their history? Also, how long have you had the gun? If you have had it awhile, are these malfunctions new, or has it always ocurred? You mentioned the mags you used. Did it happen with just one mag, some, or all? Have you replaced the slide stop recently? I know it's a lot of questions, but what you're describing is so excedingly rare, I have to ask these things. I've only seen it happen once, and talking to a couple smiths about this, they never have. Between the three of us, we've worked on hundreds, if not a thousand or more 1911s for reliability issues. You might want to go out with the gun, the same ammo, and all the mags, and pay close attention to what happens. Every time you get a malfunction, document the condition of the gun, like whether the slide stop is in the up position, how many rounds are left in the mag, and which mag you're using. Color code the mags or number them with a marker to keep them straight. Or, simply take it to a good smith and have them figure it out, if you know one. For the slide to lock back (locked back with the slide stop up, not just a failure to go forward with the slide stop in it's regular non locked postion), the slide lock has to be tripped by either the mag follower, or the nose of a bullet. This will happen on an empty mag with the follower all the way up, or with a way out of spec slide stop that has an overly large intercept lug. One scenario that would explain a round out of the mag and the slide locked back is this (and it's what happened to the one gun that I've seen this in): The mag has a very weak spring. On the last round, during recoil, the round actually bounces out during the recoil cycle. The slide's recoil spring tunnel hits the frame at the barrel lug bed, and causes a round to skip forward out of the mag. At this point, the slide moves forward on a now empty mag, and the mag follower is all the way up. The slide stop is being pushed up, and locks the slide back, with a round forward and out of the mag. With a very weak mag srping, it's possible for this to happen on the second to the last round. If that happened, everything happens the same way as in the above paragraph, but the last remaining round also moves forward enough to trip the slide stop. Anyway, see if you can answer those new questions. If not, take it out for a range session, and if you have one, take a digital camera with you. If it's happening how you say it is, then the guys above were very right in saying you need new mags, or at least some new mag srpings. The mag springs have to be REALLY weak for all this to happen, but like I said, I've seen it once before. Good luck! |
1. Yes the mag droped out just like it is supposed to. 2. All the mags are fairly new. SA factory, shooting star, mitchel 3. It is the factory slide stop on a SA bi-tone service with an alloy frame and full leangth guide rod. Every thing in the pistol is factory and it has probably 500-700 round though it. 4. This has happened two or three times in 500 rounds then it did it 4 or 5 times within 120rds. I am going to try some new mag springs and some Novak or wilson mags when I get the chance. |
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Man I wish I could see that gun. If you're mags are fairly new, then I cannot imagine it's weak mag srpings. For the scenario I described above to occur, the springs have to be extremely weak, as in almost no tension at all. The gun I saw like this had mag springs so weak, you could take a mag with 2 or 3 rounds in it and shake rounds out of it. There is probably something we're missing here. If you get a chance, and you want to discuss this any further, feel free to IM me you're number. I can call you this afternoon. |
| Thanks for the help. I wish I had a digital camera and more time this week to go to the range. I am going to load some mags and shke them to see if the ammo comes out. Next time I go to the range I will try to pay closer attn. I probably missed something and it is a common problem. |