Posted: 7/19/2005 7:57:20 AM EDT
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Is it possible to swap out a .45 slide/barrel/upper assembly, and drop-in replace it with a .38 Super slide/barrel assembly? I've been toying with turning one of my .45 1911's into a .38 Super 1911...but I don't know if the only differences would be in the slide group, or what. I don't even know if you can buy a complete slide/barrel assembly in .38 Super...Brownell's doesn't seem to carry a product like that, hrm. Anyway, assuming such a drop-in assembly existed that headspaced the 'new' way (off the case mouth, and not off the rim), could it actually be dropped-in without any alterations to the frame of the weapon? Thanks! |
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The whole slide and barrel assembly, extractor, firing pin, etc...yah, I know all that needs to be swapped out, like on the Kimber .22 conversion...the whole upper half. It's the frame, and specifically, ejector that I'm wondering about...will a standard .45 frame work with a .38 Super upper half, especially with regards to feeding and magazines...I've read some anecdotial evidence that a standard .45 ejector may or may not work; some people have had luck while others have had to swap it out.. You get the idea  Hell, I can't even find a place offhand that sells complete upper half .38 Super conversions, so I don't know if it can be done... |
Yah...it's not for a race/match/etc gun, just a general Government model plinker. More to scratch an itch than for any practical purpose  I was mainly trying to decide if it'd be cheaper to just go out and buy a used .38 Super somewhere, than spend the time, money, and aggrivation of fitting a new slide, barrel, extractor, pin, and pin stop together (and that's assuming the slide came with sights installed..) |
| I see to remember a thread about just that on this site. www.brianenos.com/forums/It was a while ago (2 years) You might find it or something close. lots of 38 super and such there |
| I'm no expert but is .38 super that much more common than .45 ACP? seems like if you wanted to plink on the cheap, either pick up some cheaper FMJ .45ACP, or get a 9mm or .22LR conversion. Then again, I may be wrong, but I've never associated oddball calibers with being cheaper. |
It's not horribly expensive...it is, however, at least an equal, if not superior, round to .45ACP, from what I've read it kicks less while being hotter. It can be loaded out to mimic, if not beat, .357 Magnum loadings (and I mean OLD .357 mag, full house, loads...you know, the stuff you can't buy anymore)...all while fitting into a Colt Gov't Model frame. That, to me, is appealing From what I gather, IPSC and other competitons love the .38 Super because you can also load it down to next to nothing, get almost 0 recoil, and still have a flat-shooting zip of a round. As you can tell, I've been reading up on the pros and cons of .38 Super lately The older/original .38 Supers headspaced the round on the rim of the case...leading the gun to pattern rather than group. The new way of headspacing, within the last decade or so, is to headspace by the case mouth instead. This really improves accuracy. The original load was developed to punch through steel car doors, which the .45 ACP couldn't do in the teens and twenties of the 20th century. (hey, we're in a whole new century here; I gotta be specific.) The .38 Super was poised to become the next big thing in law enforcment technology...and then the .357 Magnum was introduced. As the .357 Mag was a revolver cartridge and the .38 Super was an automatic cartridge...and pretty much most all cops carried wheelguns...well, you can see why the Super never really took off. Lotsa FBI and other 'special' law types (i.e. not your average street cop) carried the .38 Super, even if it's implementation was flawed at the time by the headspacing issue. In short: I want one
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I'm no .38 super guru by anyone's standard. But I think a big reason IPSC guys like it is that they can load it up to make major and still have 28 rounds in the magazine. It is much less common than .45 ACP, and the brass for it is a little on the high side. I know the competitors that I shoot with are always very diligent about retrieving every case, because they say it's about $.10 a case. I think the feed ramp on stock .38 guns is different than the .45 ACP and I think the ejector is installed closer to the centerline of the frame. For carry, I think the 10mm is superior. But I'd still like to have a .38 super, preferably a 1950-60 era Colt. |
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By the time you get a new slide, barrel, firing pin, extractor, recoil spring, etc., you will have spent almost the price of a used .38 Super. In the frame you will need a new ejector for sure. The .38 Super/9 mm ejector is considerably wider, and a .45 ACP ejector will rarely work. You will obviously need a new mag too. Look at it like this: -Slide, $142 for an Essex from Borwnells, $210 for a Caspian -Barrel, $185 for Kart EZ Fit non ramped .38 Super barrel from Brownells (I'm not sure how this one headspaces, but an e-mail to Brownells will get you an answer) -Ejector, ejector pin, firing pin, extractor, new springs, a mag, around $90 - $100. You will need to be able to : -fit the slide to the frame if necessary, since even non oversized ones don't always match up -do minor fitting on the barrel, which comes with good instructions -fit the ejector to the frame |
Ah, makes sense. Sounds like a pretty cool round and I've never given it much notice before. Thanks for the info! 
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Yah, this is about what I thought, but it's very nice having confirmation of it...I'd wind up going the Caspian route (I've heard some non-pleasing things about Essex cast parts, and from all indications, the slide is a cast part), and everything else is about what I was expecting. Thanks for the confirmation....I'll back burner this until I get all my documentation in order (I'm mid-move from NY to MN), and once I get my paperwork here settled, I'll just go and buy a Super from one of the local guys. |
| I have an entire 38super top end that is built and ready to go. However it is forh |
| Also, I would recommend the ramped barrell, as this is a high pressure round, and support is good!! When my supers run, they are awesome. Have an old gold cup single stack IPSC gun with a comp and aimpoint. Moved to an STI when everything went to hi-cap. It has a C-more which I don't like as much. It is a great sight, but it takes more practice to bring the gun up and have the dot on the screen. Wifeypoo gets agrivated the night before matches, when we are supposed to be having "couples time", and I'm drawing and dryfiring!! Oh well, sometimes you have to set your priorities! |