Posted: 7/7/2005 2:36:49 AM EDT
| What is current groupthink about the quality and/or failings of the RIA pistols? I have a friend who is testifying soon against some thugs with friends, and he doesn't have a great deal of money-- and being a Vietnam vet, he has a lot of faith in the 1911 platform. What would one need at a minimum to get it up to throwing ball at close ranges? |
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Dump the stock mags that come with the pistol and buy some decent units (47 D's would be a nice touch). As for the rest of the pistol, if he is used to some of the older service pistols that uncle Sam had (read real loose), he just needs to break the pistol in for a couple hundred rounds and it's good to go. |
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To answer the groupthink question: Generally considered a good gun for the money. Some reliability issues. I own a compact, it doesn't like hollowpoints, it tends to lock open with rounds still in the mag. It runs ball really well, I think it locked open on me once in 3-400 rounds of ball. Many people suggest switching to higher quality mags like the other poster said. IIRC, I was having feeding issues until I polished the feedramp. No feeding issues since. J |
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Not much to worry about, then-- he'll be running straight ball, and I can shine up the ramp a bit for him. And I have quite a few GI mags-- I can throw him a few, then take him to my range and update his training some. He's going to need something fairly fast-- those apes are scary. Pardon my ignorance-- I haven't had to buy any mags for my Gold Cup in quite a while-- what are 47 D's? Guess I need to spend some more time in here-- Thanks for the info, guys. You've helped out quite a bit. |
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I can't speal for the group, but as long as (forgive me, guys) glocks are available at a decent prices ($350 used) I wouldn't dream of buying a RIA. They have more issues than the guests on the jerry springer show. If he wants a 1911, get a SA GI model, at an absolute minimum. If he wants a cheap gun to stake his life on, get a glock. (And the above statement if coming from a guy who owns no glocks, but 3 1911s, one of which is carried daily) The RIA is NOT a good choice for out-of-the-box self-defense, period. |
He will not use a Glock, and he trained on a 1911. What are the issues with the pistol?? Give me some options here-- |
Issues? Crappy parts. (all of 'em) Feed/function issues Out-of-spec pin holes Seriously, man, if he wants a 1911, unless he can find a used norinco, the SA GI model is the bare-bones minimum anyone should consider as a self-defense gun, especially if they're going to expect it to run out of the box. He may buy a RIA and have it run perfect - it does happen - but if it doesn't run, or if it breaks, he has an expensive paperweight. If I was young, dirt poor, and wanted a 1911 to play with, and already had a reliable carry gun........I still wouldn't buy a RIA. YMMV, of course. Honestly, if he refused to buy a glock (I can't tell you how dirty I feel pushing glocks in the 1911 forum....) I'd steer him towards a .38 snubbie. They're reliable, they're cheap, and with the best ammo, they're more effective than .45 ball.  edit: and remember, this is coming from someone who carries a 1911 every day, and wouldn't want anything else. |
I avoided posting on this thread when I first saw it this morning because I didn't want to be accused of being a Gucci 1911 snob. (ok, ok....I AM a Gucci 1911 snob, and I know it.....I just didn't want some newbie with 3 posts calling me on it )RIA makes some nice guns. They also make about an equal number of worthless piles of scrap metal excrement. I agree with the previous posters. "Cheap" doesn't just mean inexpensive. If your buddy believes his life is in danger, he really needs something that will go bang EVERY time, and for less than $250 he can get a really nice snubbie .38. For a C note more, he can get into a used SA 1911 if he looks around. I've been pretty vocal in my distaste for Glocks, but arowneragain is correct in his assessment.....(and it hurts my soul to recommend it too) They make a very reliable and relatively inexpensive weapon. (this coming from a lifelong 1911 owner. I've owned several of the lesser brands, and I currently own high end brands. I know the difference between the 2.) |
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My RIA Govt. has been flawless with FMJ for 1200+ rounds. The 8 round Novak magazine it came with also seems to be quality as well. However, I feel the pistol is reliable only with FMJ out of the 8-rounders, or with HP out of 7-rounders or a downloaded 8-rdr. It will reliably strip a HP round at slidelock using only the release. When slingshotting the slide, the HP will catch on the feedramp. The HP used was WWB only, I have tried no other, only because I just shoot ball. With that said, If it were me, I would take him out and get some hands on time with a Glock or a revolver to see what he likes. Is this for carry or HD? If HD, then a shotty would be my reccommendation. |
Mine has been 100% (ball ammo only). That being said, I bought the gun because I had a little extra cash and just wanted something that I could keep in my truck when I'm out on the ranch. This pistol was never purchased for duty or defensive purposes (I have my TLE for that). I'm of the philosophy that something is better than nothing and I'd rather have something if I come across a feral hog, or mountain lion. |
| I have a Kimber Government Model and I have a Rock Island Armory Government Model. The Kimber is obviously made to a higher quality level and it is more accurate. But both have had more than a thousand rounds through them (the Kimber, way more than a thousand) and have had absolutely no problems. The RIA does not rattle and is on a par with the cheap Springfields. The RIA is as accurate as a GI .45. Mine will also feed hollow points with no problem but it was a copy of the 1911A1 and that means hardball. |
| I handled a couple at a gun store. They are the worst I have seen in fit and finish. (Had awful tool marks, slide to frame Grand Canyon gaps, pitiful sights that look like they were hammered in, shitty trigger pull, grips looked like they were cut with a hacksaw and bastard-filed to shape...) About the best thing they had going for them were the Novak (made in Italy) magazines. I would NEVER trust my life to one. |
| I'm a dyed in the wool 1911 man. I have owned a number of 1911's, mainly Springfields, and one Dan Wesson. I bought a Rock Island milspec 1911 a year ago mainly out of curiosity. As soon as I got home from the shop that day I bought it, I loaded all my magazines and proceeded to see if I could make the pistol malfunction. I fired it as fast as I could with ball, wadcutters , hollowpoints, and some reloads I got from a friend that I considered inferior. Loads that sometime would not chamber in one of my more expensive 1911's. To make this short I fired 300 rounds in less than 45 minutes. Not one malfunction. I did not shoot for accuracy. I just sat down in front of my target and fired as fast as I could, fired, reload, fired. For any price how could you ask for more than that? This RIA is the only one I have had my hands on and it could be a fluke, but I don't thinkl so. By the way I am new to this forum, and I'm glad to be here, but I'm sure no newbie to 1911's, AR's or firearms in general. |
| SA GI model, I bought mine for $399 OTD. A bit of haggling can get one for that if you shop around. Mine has about 1100 rounds through it and has not hiccupped a single time. It runs perfectly out of the box. Mine shoots to POI with 230gr ball, which is what it was intended for. I havent fired a huge assortment of JHPs only Win silvertips I had around and a bunch of handloaded LSWCs it eats em fine. Buy the gun and 3 Wilson combat #47D mags and be into it for about $475 total. |
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I also was goingto avoid posting on this thread. Every so often someone asks about the RIAs, and though many will talk about what crap they are, others swear they are good because theirs works fine. I hope I don't sound like an arrogant jerk here, but I'm going to throw in my two cents worth, since it bothers me that people will buy an inferior $350 1911 to defend their life when a little more money will get them a decent gun. First, here's a little background on where I get my opinion. I've worked on hundreds of 1911s over the past 15 years, doing everything from simple reliability work to full house custom guns. My close friend has a full service gunsmithing shop in Phoenix, and this is where I cut my teeth, working on my guns, my friend's guns, and doing some his customer's guns. I've seen every brand of 1911 imaginaeable come into his shop over the last 12 years. Since I'm there so often, I get to see literally dozens of 1911s that are broke every week or two. Now, getting back to RIAs. I think they are a great value for the money if you want a pistol for fun. For defense, they are crap. I've seen good exapmples and bad ones. For the most part, they are finished fairly well, and usually will function fine with ball ammo. arowneragain has made some very good points with their problems. Personally, the 30 or more RIAs I've seen, including the ones I've owned, have some common issues. The biggest problem with them is inferior metal. The extractors are always soft. This may mean nothing if the gun is new, and/or gets little use. The ejectors are also soft, as well as the pin. Most I've sen that got any use develeoped looses ejectors. I could go on and on regarding out of spec pin locations, loosely fit triggers, crapper hammers and sears, extremely soft springs, etc., but the extractor thing is the biggest deal to me. I know someone will say "mine works fine, and I just replaced the extractor with a brand x $30 extractor". If you'rs works, I'm happy for you. If you drive a Hyundai and it has been reliable for you, it's still an low qulaity car, but I'm happy for you. I;m not trying to bash these guns. They are great for the money. They just don't have the long term level of qulity I want to bet my life on. Again, someone out there has an RIA that has seen many reliable rounds. If you do, consider it a testament to the design, and not the quality of the gun. No 1911, or any other handgun manufacturer, turns out nothing but reliable out of the box guns. I've seen lemons from Sig, Glock, HK (though very few, and never with a P7), Kimber, Colt, Springfield, and on and on. For an inexpensive 1911, the best bet, as many others have said, is a Springfiled Mil-Spec. If, and I mean if, the gun is not 100% out of the box, or has point of impact issues, send it back. Springfield covers their stuff. Try that with an RIA. In answer to your original question, if you just want a 191 that will throw ball, and do it everytime, an RIA, even a bad one, can probably do that with a few tweaks. If you can find a used one locally, inspect it, and make sure it hand cycles dummy rounds easily. Invest in a good mag or two as Dano523 said, and maybe replace the extractor. By this point though, you can probably get a Springfield used also. Let us know how it turns out. 
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RIA is not what I would recommend as a defensive 1911. I'd look for a good used Colt 1991, Somewhere in the area of 400 bucks. They might not be pretty on the outside but the things are properly built and use quality parts with the exception of SOME MIM extractors which were changed back after problems arose. Or buy a good S&W or Colt revolver, jeez, good ones can be found for under 300 bucks all day long. Get a couple of speedloaders for it, buy some good defensive ammo and you are ready to roll. As good a deal as the SA GI and milspecs are, you need to either burn a lot of ammo thru them or do some polishing of internal parts because EVERY one I have bought have been unreliable until I ran a case thru them or I did some polishing on them. The higher end ones are better but you are paying for it also, and you said he did not have a lot of money. I am not saying SAs GIs and milspecs are not good, because for the money they are, and they DO have a good return/repair policy, but for defensive use, a gun in the shop don't mean shit to the badguys. I can fault Colt for selling some flawed looking guns that should not have gotten out of the factory, but they DID work without a lot of shooting or tinkering. |
Just curious about when you had issues with a GI ? Recent production? Mine as well as the few folks I know that own them have had zero issues with them. Not doubting your experience but wondering if it was a couple years ago or newer. |
I had problems first of all with the disconnector, it had a burr and would slow the slide down so much it would cause problems. Second, the frame to slide fit is too damn tight, no movement true, but it was not absolutely straight either so it would bind a bit. The spring [recoil] lost its temper after maybe 100 150 rounds, 12 pounds which is way to light for hardball, that is target load power. Extractor was a POS and not set properly.I bought this about 1 1/2 years ago or so. On my Milspec SS they sent it with the wrong color recoil plug [not a big deal]Had another extractor problem where their plating had a blob in the rim groove and dinged the brass and caused problems. Was not fitted properly either. This one WAS a bit looser, so it broke in better, springs are still so so in my book. Ended up replacing the FP stop as it had a crack in it. [SA needs better QC inspection on cast parts] Champion, last straw, Wrong ejector, absolutely shitty extractor/FP stop/eratic operation. For range shooting I have fun, I'd never trust it with my life tho. ] The thing that is a bit funny is that the the SA GI was very accurate. Finally broke down a bought a SS lightweight Colt defender, From new it has gone BANG! every flippin time, great grips,good sights once you lose the crappy front site insert Colt uses.  Everything the Champion should have been the Colt was from the box. Parts are of a different order in quality, and don't have that cast/mim porous look, tho K does a good job at avoiding that. My biggest beef with the Colt is that the rear of the slide to frame fit is a BIT off but I'll trade that for 100% reliability any day of the week.
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