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6/17/2017 10:51:44 PM EDT
My father has a Para Colonel LDA that he wants to convert to 45 Super.  It's a commander sized doublestack with a steel frame.

It has a full length guide rod and fully ramped barrel that is threaded.  If he installs a flat firing pin stop, 22 lb recoil spring, heavy firing pin spring, and uses a comp, do you think the gun will handle the added pressure from the 45 Super round or is it going to ruin the frame in short order?

I know Para's aren't the most durable design, but the Para 7-45 is on Rowland's approved list for their conversion.
6/20/2017 9:27:45 AM EDT
[#1]
I think it depends on what level of 45 Super.  The stuff you buy from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, etc is really just a 45 ACP +P+ and not that different from a warm 10mm, which means you probably wouldn't even have to use a comp at all, maybe just a little heavier spring weight.  I reload and have loaded some 45 Super up to equal the 460 Rowland...but at that point yes you need a comp.  I never went that high in a 1911 though (used a G21 + comped KKM bbl for serious 45 Super), however I did run SOME medium level 45 Super through an stock Ruger Lightweight Commander and it did fine, although recoil was heavier as you might expect, but if I had any interest in shooting more through that gun I would have put a stiffer spring in it for sure to slow the slide speed down a little.
6/20/2017 7:37:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote History
Quoted:
I think it depends on what level of 45 Super.  The stuff you buy from Buffalo Bore, Underwood, etc is really just a 45 ACP +P+ and not that different from a warm 10mm, which means you probably wouldn't even have to use a comp at all, maybe just a little heavier spring weight.  I reload and have loaded some 45 Super up to equal the 460 Rowland...but at that point yes you need a comp.  I never went that high in a 1911 though (used a G21 + comped KKM bbl for serious 45 Super), however I did run SOME medium level 45 Super through an stock Ruger Lightweight Commander and it did fine, although recoil was heavier as you might expect, but if I had any interest in shooting more through that gun I would have put a stiffer spring in it for sure to slow the slide speed down a little.
View Quote
I would reload 45 Super for him.  Nothing too crazy... a 230 gr @1100 fps or 255 hardcast @ 1025 fps.  I don't know that he should shoot Rowland level ammo through it, comp or not.

I am thinking about getting a G21 and setting it up for Super myself.  Are the glock mags still seeing wear as a result of Rowland level loads?  Did you have any problems with FTF's due to slide velocity, even with the comp on?  I've researched it extensively and for some, the conversion worked great and others not so much.  Some had to use 2 mags springs to get it to run right, even when running a comp.
6/25/2017 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#3]
In addition to needing a 23+lb recoil spring, matching upgraded firing pin spring, (Wolff sells them as a combo), a hand fitted FBFP Stop (easy to do yourself as well...) you also need to upgrade, the Main Spring of the gun as well. I don't know what the stock poundage is on a Para but I would say you need to go up 5-7lbs in main spring tension to help slow the slide speed down as well. Lastly but very importantly, you will need to increase the spring poundage of your magazine springs so they can keep up with the extra slide velocity. A .45Super is about 25% hotter when comparing factory loaded store shelf bought .45acp to Buffalo Bore or Underwood's "Outdoorsman" loaded pressures... and it can safely go up another 5-10% hotter than that, IF you hand load. So Be sure to get Wolff extra power +10% magazine springs for ALL associated mags running the Super. This is to keep up with the faster slide velocity and avoid overrunning the magazine; thus eliminating FTF's, FTB's, Stovepipes, and all other annoying related stoppages. As to the compensator... I never ran one because I didn't need it with the aforementioned beefier upgrades. I mostly didn't want the extra barrel length nor the noise produced with my pistol even on a "Woods Gun." My Springfield "Loaded" ran like a raped ape after my conversion upgrades... and the trial and error to get it "sunrise reliable." So, I speak from first hand experience. If you need any help just PM me and we'll get your dads Super gun running like a sewing machine. I'm happy to help anyone get into this extremely versatile caliber and promote it's use.

I've since converted the "Loaded" back to run .45acp to run along my sometimes carry SA Commander... I bought a dedicated "Woods Gun" in the form a new production Smith & Wesson Model 625 after a fruitless search for a Model 25... The new revolver has a 4" barrel, moon clip equipped cylinder, gold dot front sight, etc... I checked with Tim Sundle's and Smith & Wesson both before the purchase as to the question: "Will the 625 handle a steady and constant diet of .45Super." Smith's short answer was, "Yes, it will!" Tim, the owner of Buffalo Bore said that the 625 will handle ANY and ALL of .45 ACP, .45Auto-Rim, and .45Super that his company makes! He said that this "N" frame is a great .45Super host. And they were both right... as this out of the box pistol makes the recoil of a Buffalo Bore-255 grain Hard Cast 45Super; recoil the same as my Beefed-Up and converted "Loaded" was. However, the Smith is a hair more accurate, and moon clip reloads are just as fast as with the old "Loaded" Super was to load. I love the ease of moon clips so much I'm going to have my pocket carry Smith M-36's cylinder machined to accept them. They are amazingly fast to reload. I have 200+ rounds thru this pistol since Tuesday and I plan on running another 50 Super's and 150 .45acp+P's today. Pic of my new "Woods Rig..."





And to answer any question about the last pic... A big "hell no", was this pistol pointed at anything but a camera lens for said last pic...

6/26/2017 8:17:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Quoted:


I would reload 45 Super for him.  Nothing too crazy... a 230 gr @1100 fps or 255 hardcast @ 1025 fps.  I don't know that he should shoot Rowland level ammo through it, comp or not.

I am thinking about getting a G21 and setting it up for Super myself.  Are the glock mags still seeing wear as a result of Rowland level loads?  Did you have any problems with FTF's due to slide velocity, even with the comp on?  I've researched it extensively and for some, the conversion worked great and others not so much.  Some had to use 2 mags springs to get it to run right, even when running a comp.
View Quote
There have been a few who have modified their Glock mags by cutting down the front "lip" which is usually caused by excessive slide speed.    For the most part I ran a standard KKM barrel and their 4 port comp, but nope I never had any feeding issues and also never ran a double mag spring, even with loads running over 1000 ft-lbs.  But to be fair I never shot a lot of those loads, I ended up settling on milder loads that still hit hard (230gr @ 1200 or 250gr @ 1100 or so) and a good bit easier on the gun.
6/26/2017 11:49:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote History
Quoted:
In addition to needing a 23+lb recoil spring, matching upgraded firing pin spring, (Wolff sells them as a combo), a hand fitted FBFP Stop (easy to do yourself as well...) you also need to upgrade, the Main Spring of the gun as well. I don't know what the stock poundage is on a Para but I would say you need to go up 5-7lbs in main spring tension to help slow the slide speed down as well. Lastly but very importantly, you will need to increase the spring poundage of your magazine springs so they can keep up with the extra slide velocity. A .45Super is about 25% hotter when comparing factory loaded store shelf bought .45acp to Buffalo Bore or Underwood's "Outdoorsman" loaded pressures... and it can safely go up another 5-10% hotter than that, IF you hand load. So Be sure to get Wolff extra power +10% magazine springs for ALL associated mags running the Super. This is to keep up with the faster slide velocity and avoid overrunning the magazine; thus eliminating FTF's, FTB's, Stovepipes, and all other annoying related stoppages. As to the compensator... I never ran one because I didn't need it with the aforementioned beefier upgrades. I mostly didn't want the extra barrel length nor the noise produced with my pistol even on a "Woods Gun." My Springfield "Loaded" ran like a raped ape after my conversion upgrades... and the trial and error to get it "sunrise reliable." So, I speak from first hand experience. If you need any help just PM me and we'll get your dads Super gun running like a sewing machine. I'm happy to help anyone get into this extremely versatile caliber and promote it's use.

I've since converted the "Loaded" back to run .45acp to run along my sometimes carry SA Commander... I bought a dedicated "Woods Gun" in the form a new production Smith & Wesson Model 625 after a fruitless search for a Model 25... The new revolver has a 4" barrel, moon clip equipped cylinder, gold dot front sight, etc... I checked with Tim Sundle's and Smith & Wesson both before the purchase as to the question: "Will the 625 handle a steady and constant diet of .45Super." Smith's short answer was, "Yes, it will!" Tim, the owner of Buffalo Bore said that the 625 will handle ANY and ALL of .45 ACP, .45Auto-Rim, and .45Super that his company makes! He said that this "N" frame is a great .45Super host. And they were both right... as this out of the box pistol makes the recoil of a Buffalo Bore-255 grain Hard Cast 45Super; recoil the same as my Beefed-Up and converted "Loaded" was. However, the Smith is a hair more accurate, and moon clip reloads are just as fast as with the old "Loaded" Super was to load. I love the ease of moon clips so much I'm going to have my pocket carry Smith M-36's cylinder machined to accept them. They are amazingly fast to reload. I have 200+ rounds thru this pistol since Tuesday and I plan on running another 50 Super's and 150 .45acp+P's today. Pic of my new "Woods Rig..."

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/Azure%203_zps2c3vlu4x.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/Azura%20OWB%20holster%20with%20Smith%20625_zpsbpchefg0.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/SampW%20Model%20625%20Left%20Side_zpsbjfluuww.jpg

And to answer any question about the last pic... A big "hell no", was this pistol pointed at anything but a camera lens for said last pic...

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/SampW%20Model%20625%20Bore%20Pic_zps6iqvbwlq.jpg
View Quote
Now that is nice.  I wouldn't mind having a 625 myself.  I'd get a spare cylinder and have Clark ream it out to 460 Rowland.
6/26/2017 12:15:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:
In addition to needing a 23+lb recoil spring, matching upgraded firing pin spring, (Wolff sells them as a combo), a hand fitted FBFP Stop (easy to do yourself as well...) you also need to upgrade, the Main Spring of the gun as well. I don't know what the stock poundage is on a Para but I would say you need to go up 5-7lbs in main spring tension to help slow the slide speed down as well. Lastly but very importantly, you will need to increase the spring poundage of your magazine springs so they can keep up with the extra slide velocity. A .45Super is about 25% hotter when comparing factory loaded store shelf bought .45acp to Buffalo Bore or Underwood's "Outdoorsman" loaded pressures... and it can safely go up another 5-10% hotter than that, IF you hand load. So Be sure to get Wolff extra power +10% magazine springs for ALL associated mags running the Super. This is to keep up with the faster slide velocity and avoid overrunning the magazine; thus eliminating FTF's, FTB's, Stovepipes, and all other annoying related stoppages. As to the compensator... I never ran one because I didn't need it with the aforementioned beefier upgrades. I mostly didn't want the extra barrel length nor the noise produced with my pistol even on a "Woods Gun." My Springfield "Loaded" ran like a raped ape after my conversion upgrades... and the trial and error to get it "sunrise reliable." So, I speak from first hand experience. If you need any help just PM me and we'll get your dads Super gun running like a sewing machine. I'm happy to help anyone get into this extremely versatile caliber and promote it's use.

I've since converted the "Loaded" back to run .45acp to run along my sometimes carry SA Commander... I bought a dedicated "Woods Gun" in the form a new production Smith & Wesson Model 625 after a fruitless search for a Model 25... The new revolver has a 4" barrel, moon clip equipped cylinder, gold dot front sight, etc... I checked with Tim Sundle's and Smith & Wesson both before the purchase as to the question: "Will the 625 handle a steady and constant diet of .45Super." Smith's short answer was, "Yes, it will!" Tim, the owner of Buffalo Bore said that the 625 will handle ANY and ALL of .45 ACP, .45Auto-Rim, and .45Super that his company makes! He said that this "N" frame is a great .45Super host. And they were both right... as this out of the box pistol makes the recoil of a Buffalo Bore-255 grain Hard Cast 45Super; recoil the same as my Beefed-Up and converted "Loaded" was. However, the Smith is a hair more accurate, and moon clip reloads are just as fast as with the old "Loaded" Super was to load. I love the ease of moon clips so much I'm going to have my pocket carry Smith M-36's cylinder machined to accept them. They are amazingly fast to reload. I have 200+ rounds thru this pistol since Tuesday and I plan on running another 50 Super's and 150 .45acp+P's today. Pic of my new "Woods Rig..."

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/Azure%203_zps2c3vlu4x.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/Azura%20OWB%20holster%20with%20Smith%20625_zpsbpchefg0.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/SampW%20Model%20625%20Left%20Side_zpsbjfluuww.jpg

And to answer any question about the last pic... A big "hell no", was this pistol pointed at anything but a camera lens for said last pic...

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/jeremyreagan/Smith%20Model%20625/SampW%20Model%20625%20Bore%20Pic_zps6iqvbwlq.jpg
View Quote
Great advice.   Square firing pin stop and heavy main spring are the big ones.  I would be very hesitant to mod a commander sized Para to 45 Super though.  There is just not enough mass in the slide and Paras are too well known for very iffy metalurgy.

ETA-  nice 625 btw.  I have a 5" 625 Classic in 45 Long Colt for a woods gun.
6/26/2017 9:51:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:


Great advice.   Square firing pin stop and heavy main spring are the big ones.  I would be very hesitant to mod a commander sized Para to 45 Super though.  There is just not enough mass in the slide and Paras are too well known for very iffy metalurgy.

ETA-  nice 625 btw.  I have a 5" 625 Classic in 45 Long Colt for a woods gun.
View Quote
I would think a good comp would slow the slide down on 45 Super loads enough that it would be like shooting standard pressure ACP rounds through an non comped gun, especially with a flat firing pin stop installed.  I'm not talking about Rowland level loads, ie 230 gr @1500 fps, but a 230 @1100.  That's only 150 fps more than a +P round.

Before I put a comp on my G20SF, my 200 gr WFN loads would eject 20 ft away.  With a 3 port comp attached, they are thrown 4 to 5 ft.
6/27/2017 7:27:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:


I would think a good comp would slow the slide down on 45 Super loads enough that it would be like shooting standard pressure ACP rounds through an non comped gun, especially with a flat firing pin stop installed.  I'm not talking about Rowland level loads, ie 230 gr @1500 fps, but a 230 @1100.  That's only 150 fps more than a +P round.

Before I put a comp on my G20SF, my 200 gr WFN loads would eject 20 ft away.  With a 3 port comp attached, they are thrown 4 to 5 ft.
View Quote
You may be right, but then you end up with a gun nearly the same size of a 6" long slide which is better suited for shooting hot loads due to the greater slide mass and it will give greater velocities with equal loads, or  the same velocities with lighter loads.