Posted: 10/10/2014 3:36:35 PM EDT
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I purchased my Mil-spec about seven years ago brand new and it has always been a bit inaccurate and finicky. Frankly I’m a little let down, so I came to you guys to hear what you have to say.
I’m an experienced shooter both in and out of the military. I’m typically very confident in my skills and during most pistol and rifle qual in the Marine Corps I can usually place within the top 5 shooters in a company, both in rifle and pistol. However, this 1911 has been the vain of my existence! I grew up shooting 1911’s and never had to much trouble with hitting a target from what I can remember, but fell off the 1911 bandwagon for some years until I bought this one. Anyway… I’ve had a bad problem with this gun printing high and left and having what I think are large groups. So I decided to figure out once and for all if it was me or the gun. Took it to the range today and shot it from the rest at 25 yards and this was the best group I managed. (I feel like this is a bit unacceptable from the rest at 25 yards, if I am wrong please let me know) 
After doing that I decided to maybe work on my grip some to see if I couldn’t iron things out a bit. I was shooting at 15yards and the group was 6-7in, located in the upper left. I was feeling a little down and was thinking that maybe I just wasn’t good with the 1911 when I saw a guy next to me shooting a Springfield armory GI 1911. I asked him if he wouldn’t mind shooting my gun and handed him a magazine. He didn’t group to well with it (he was a bit all over the target). To my delight he told me to try his. Well I’m glad that he did!!! I felt like I was shooting some national match piece of equipment. The trigger was lighter the recoil felt softer and I put a group of seven rounds in the center with a 2.5-3 inch group at 15 yards using the weaver (which is what I would like mine to do). I was really impressed with the difference between the two and now I’m wondering if my mil-spec is a lemon or something. (Sorry for being long winded) Anyway, any thought would be helpful. Not sure if I should call Springfield and ask what they can do or perhaps send it into the custom shop and get the 1911-A1 defensive package done. |
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What does the crown look like? Even if the barrel was pretty loose it should still be more accurate than what a normal person could throw down.
No offense, but generally speaking pistols, even cheap, loose ones, are more accurate than the trigger puller. Could possibly be something messed up with the crown if accuracy is horrid and you can shoot other 1911s well. Left and right can be corrected by drifting the rear sight. However, make certain you are not pulling the gun. Right handed shooters generally pull the gun to the left which is why I am saying to make certain it is the gun first. |
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I was thinking the exact same thing and part of the reason I went to the range was to figure out how much to drift the rear sight, but after shooting a lower grade 1911 much better I'm now starting to think its the gun.
Edit: The crown is sound with no damage at all. Checked the bushing to barrel play and it fells as if there's a "slight" amount of lateral play. Not sure how much is normal. |
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Better sights may help you quite a bit! But on 1911s with GI sights this is something not easy or cheap to accomplish.
A 4" 10 shot group at 25 is about the best I have seen professional nationally respected instructors lay down consistently. You are really not far off from that and these guys do this stuff for a living |
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Quoted:
I was thinking the exact same thing and part of the reason I went to the range was to figure out how much to drift the rear sight, but after shooting a lower grade 1911 much better I'm now starting to think its the gun. Id give the crown a hard look for damage. If the groups are erratic it could be a damaged crown, however it could also be a shooter issue. Its very hard to say unfortunately 
On the recoil side of things. New springs may do you justice. Im currently using a 15# spring. The heavier springs will make recoil feel lighter, but flips the gun more IMHO. Lighter springs make the gun flip less, but I feel that I am absorbing more recoil in my arms than with the heavier ones. Do you dry fire much? This could also help a lot. |
| Yes, dry fire a lot and before I start shooting I will typically dry fire for a few min. The trigger has a clean break but is over 5-6lbs (no trigger gauge to tell for sure). I wonder if a lighter trigger would help, if this is a case of me over squeezing the gun, thus pulling it up and left. However, its still doing it on the bag and i didnt have any problems with a similar gun. |
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Yes, dry fire a lot and before I start shooting I will typically dry fire for a few min. The trigger has a clean break but is over 5-6lbs (no trigger gauge to tell for sure). I wonder if a lighter trigger would help, if this is a case of me over squeezing the gun, thus pulling it up and left. However, its still doing it on the bag and i didnt have any problems with a similar gun. You can bend the middle leaf spring out a little and it should remove a pound or so. How does the barrel feel when pressing down on the barrel hood? Also check bushing fit. Im sure on that type of 1911 you will have play. Im just curious how much play. I will say I cannot shoot 1911s well with GI sights and Im young with good eye sight. Springer will take care of you if there is a problem. If you believe it to be a gun issue give them a call and they'll look it over for you and it wont cost you a dime One thing I have learned over the years is to really grip down on the gun. This cuts down recoil, and even when I flinch, it doesn't get thrown as far as it would with a looser grip. This is one thing that I believe doesn't get talked about enough. Hopefully a wiser 1911 guru will come along and offer more insight. |
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Thanks chase45, very helpful input.
Took another look at the barrel bushing with the hood depressed. No real play between the barrel and bushing. However, seems like considerable amount between the bushing and the slide. Enough to make a bit of a sound and be clearly visible with the naked eye. (not the most helpful description I know) What are the tolerances I might be able to mike it. |
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I'd say if there is no play between the barrel and bushing with the slide forward and locked, you are GTG on the barrel.
My MilSpec, of recent manufacture is silly accurate, with a very tight lock-up, I've changed the trigger and rear sight to a NM wide notch, but the barrel, bushing and front sight are stock. |
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Quoted:
Thanks chase45, very helpful input. Took another look at the barrel bushing with the hood depressed. No real play between the barrel and bushing. However, seems like considerable amount between the bushing and the slide. Enough to make a bit of a sound and be clearly visible with the naked eye. (not the most helpful description I know) What are the tolerances I might be able to mike it. Ill be honest buddy I do not know how much play is acceptable for bushing to slide play. This could honestly be your issue. I have seen pistols with decent amount of play in the lock up associated with the barrel hood test, and they could shoot pretty well. The bushing on my TRP is not super tight, but it is not loose either and that gun shoot pretty well. It does have a small amount of play when pressing down on the hood. My Pros bushing is locked in there solid, even after many many K its still very tight in the slide. But Ill be honest I don't shoot the Pro much better than the TRP. 
Again give that crown a good hard look as I believe that would wreak more havoc on accuracy than a loose bushing to slide fit would. |
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I'd say if there is no play between the barrel and bushing with the slide forward and locked, you are GTG on the barrel. My MilSpec, of recent manufacture is silly accurate, with a very tight lock-up, I've changed the trigger and rear sight to a NM wide notch, but the barrel, bushing and front sight are stock. How accurate is it? Maybe I'm being over critical of a 500 dollar 1911 and the one I shot earlier today was just a lucky one. I think a 5-6 inch group center mass from the standing at 25yards, maybe with a flyer or something not counted, is what I expect. Having seen most other off the shelf pistols do this pretty easily. |
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I don't think mine is quite as bad as yours, but I've had a similar experience. Mine was shooting really low too. So I put a taller rear sight on it and it brought my POI up to the top of the post. Which I like. But with the original sight it was shooting very low at 15 yards.
Anyways.... I find mine to be acceptable, but I know when I got a Kimber Custom II, I personally could shoot circles around my springy. It might just be me, because of the different set up. Like a Custom II has the nice fatter, longer trigger, a beavertail grip safety, and maybe a bit better sights, although they're still just black. But for me it was night and day. I've since shot my milspec and found it's acceptable, but I've always wondered if it's the gun or me that makes it less accurate than other pistols in my hands. I replaced the bushing also on mine. I think it helped a tad. (Got it from amherst depot) Some say getting an EGW bushing is a good thing. I think you can mic your barrel and order an appropriate size. Somebody else can confirm that knows more. But the stock bushing was not only loose on the barrel, but pretty loose in the frame too. When I got the Kimber I was amazed at the difference in how tight it was to rotate in the frame. I thought that might be a clue. The upside is my milspec has only choked once out of all the rounds and it wasn't me firing it. I think the guy limpwristed it and got a stovepipe. I never had it happen though and it's dead nuts reliable. That counts for something for me. Last time I shot it at 7 yards: 
With my Kimber it was easy to make them all go in one whole at 7 yards, this one, not so much. OH, one more thing, I think this gun favors the lighter bullets. The barrel might just not like 230 grainers. Which kind of sucks as they are the most common. I'll probably try to find more 185's. Or 200's. |
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How accurate is it? Maybe I'm being over critical of a 500 dollar 1911 and the one I shot earlier today was just a lucky one. I think a 5-6 inch group center mass from the standing at 25yards, maybe with a flyer or something not counted, is what I expect. Having seen most other off the shelf pistols do this pretty easily. Quoted:
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I'd say if there is no play between the barrel and bushing with the slide forward and locked, you are GTG on the barrel. My MilSpec, of recent manufacture is silly accurate, with a very tight lock-up, I've changed the trigger and rear sight to a NM wide notch, but the barrel, bushing and front sight are stock. How accurate is it? Maybe I'm being over critical of a 500 dollar 1911 and the one I shot earlier today was just a lucky one. I think a 5-6 inch group center mass from the standing at 25yards, maybe with a flyer or something not counted, is what I expect. Having seen most other off the shelf pistols do this pretty easily. I don't shoot 25 yards all that often, but I hit what I'm aiming at at that distance. 7 - 10 yards, I can put all shots into a hole the size of a racquetball. This is what adding $200 and a little time in the garage will do to the MilSpec. 
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| Called SA, they said they will take it in free of charge and the custom shop will take it to the range and see how it's doing. If all turns out fine then I know it's me and I'll have them do the 1911-A1 defense package while it is there. The lighter trigger should help if it is me. |
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Called SA, they said they will take it in free of charge and the custom shop will take it to the range and see how it's doing. If all turns out fine then I know it's me and I'll have them do the 1911-A1 defense package while it is there. The lighter trigger should help if it is me. Let us know man! Im curious as to what the issue is. Could very well be that loose bushing |
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Personally, I doubt it's the trigger. 5-6 is pretty darn light. I can shoot my frickin hipower with a nearly 9 lb trigger and still have adequate accuracy. I myself have always blamed the mil spec. LOL. I think there is just something about that one, or maybe that era (mine was bought around the same time as yours) that left something a bit to be desired. Some say maybe the two piece barrels.
In all seriousness, for me I think it's a combo between the no frills set up of a more GI type gun that makes it a bit more challenging for me to be accurate with, and the fact that it's just kind of loose. Or something mechanical. Hopefully they can tweak it a bit. |
| mine was the same way. called springfield and they immediately sent me a shipping label. when I got it back, they had refit a "match" barrel and bushing. they also polished the feedramp. all free of charge. they also did something with slide to frame fit because the pistol was considerably tighter when I got it back which I didnt expect or ask for. I actually believe it is the RO barrel they put in. problem solved, its a great pistol now |
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FWIW, the mil-spec uses the two-piece bbl instead of the better one-piece ones on their better models. Regardless of that issue, the bushing/bbl fit should be pretty darn snug. This isn't true for all of the Mil-Spec pistols, as mine is a one piece barrel. I've had 3 Mil-Spec's with one piece barrels, as well. All were NM marked frames (finished and slightly fit in the US), so maybe some of the complete Brazilian made and assembled pistols left with them, but none of the ones I had. |
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Barrel fit happens at both ends.
Bushing needs to be fairly tight and the toggle/hood at the rear needs to be fitted correctly. Years ago I bought a Colt 1911 a1 and had trigger and sight work done on it but it was pretty sloppy. I was pretty much using it for IPSIC type stuff so It really was fine but I never had a whole lot of confidence in it . On a whim I bought a Ed Brown "drop in" competition barrel for it . As it turned out if you read the fine print it says these will drop in on most guns and mine was not one of those guns . Over the course of several phone calls to Ed Browns tech guys and some scary heavy file work on the barrel I got it to fit and it has been great for many years and lots of rounds downrange. When I bear down and do my part it is still a tack driver. Not sure if these units are still avalible . EDIT/ I checked - Brownells $179+shipping My experience is likely not a good example as doing proper 1911 work is not a simple thing . Anything that will tend to make it more accurate will also tend to kill your reliability . its a fine line to walk and experience helps. My overall point is your gun sounds like it needs the help of a good 1911 smith. Could be it only needs some adjusting and a tighten up , maybe it needs some new parts. Compare this to selling it off and grabbing up some other 1911 model more in line for accuracy work |
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Barrel fit happens at both ends. Bushing needs to be fairly tight and the toggle/hood at the rear needs to be fitted correctly. Years ago I bought a Colt 1911 a1 and had trigger and sight work done on it but it was pretty sloppy. I was pretty much using it for IPSIC type stuff so It really was fine but I never had a whole lot of confidence in it . On a whim I bought a Ed Brown "drop in" competition barrel for it . As it turned out if you read the fine print it says these will drop in on most guns and mine was not one of those guns . Over the course of several phone calls to Ed Browns tech guys and some scary heavy file work on the barrel I got it to fit and it has been great for many years and lots of rounds downrange. When I bear down and do my part it is still a tack driver. Not sure if these units are still avalible . EDIT/ I checked - Brownells $179+shipping My experience is likely not a good example as doing proper 1911 work is not a simple thing . Anything that will tend to make it more accurate will also tend to kill your reliability . its a fine line to walk and experience helps. My overall point is your gun sounds like it needs the help of a good 1911 smith. Could be it only needs some adjusting and a tighten up , maybe it needs some new parts. Compare this to selling it off and grabbing up some other 1911 model more in line for accuracy work or just send it to SA for free and they will take care of it. |