Posted: 9/4/2012 6:04:03 AM EDT
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Okay, I am so torn as of right now as to what to do with my Delta Elite.
Little background. The gun is a NIB blued Delta Elite, 10mm, from 1987. I also already have a customized Springfield Armory Range Officer that I love to shoot (in 45ACP). So, here are my 3 choices that I have been thinking about. 1.) Leave the D.E. as is, NIB, and shoot the crap out of my R.O. 2.) Shoot the D.E. in stock form, and shoot the crap out of my R.O. 3.) Replace the recoil spring with a single-spring set-up (swap out the plastic duel recoil spring) and add the flat-bottom firing pin stop & different mainspring (have read these 3 mods are highly popular and greatly reduce recoil), shoot it with those simple mods, and shoot the R.O. 4.) Give the D.E. to a local shop to do some PRACTICAL mods to (sights, checker front-strap, possibly new safety, tune trigger, new VZ grips, blend & instal a beaver-tail safety, maybe a S&A magwell) and shoot the D.E. I honestly love the blacked-out look of the D.E., and think as set of Hennie "Ledge" style sights and some new grips would put the gun over the top as far as cool-ness goes. Plus the fact that it is 10mm is just simply cool in itself. The only thing that is steering me away from 2, 3 & 4 is the fact that the gun is in fact NIB. If the gun were slightly used, or LNIB but already shot, then I would already have the gun in the shop or already be shooting it. What do you guys think? and please explain why you think I should do said choice. ETA: Added pic of said gun... 
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People buy NIB guns every day with the intention of shooting the hell out of them. The only difference is that yours is a heck of a lot older than most. I'd say as long as you didn't pay a big premium for the NIB condition, do whatever you want to it. I paid $975 cash for it. It's not that I don't mind modding & shooting it, I am just afraid that any collect-ability and value it has will be destroyed once I hand it over to be worked on. |
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People buy NIB guns every day with the intention of shooting the hell out of them. The only difference is that yours is a heck of a lot older than most. I'd say as long as you didn't pay a big premium for the NIB condition, do whatever you want to it. I paid $975 cash for it. It's not that I don't mind modding & shooting it, I am just afraid that any collect-ability and value it has will be destroyed once I hand it over to be worked on. Well, look at it this way. Somebody had that thing in his safe since I graduated high school a quarter century ago and I'd bet the value of it probably has barely kept pace with inflation, if that, since you can buy a brand new one for about the same price. Somebody wasted a third of his life waiting for that thing to become valuable, and just managed to break even. He could have been shooting and enjoying that gun the whole time, and those opportunites are gone, never to return. And keep this in mind: he held onto it probably thinking that Colt, at the time, had made all the Deltas they were ever going to make. Now that they've resumed production, this means a hit to the collector's value of Delta Elites still out there. At the risk of setting off douchebag detectors everywhere, YOLO. 
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OP you have nothing special, I would modify. That. Let me know when you replace the OEM grip safety. I like them. If I were to mod it, I would keep the stock parts, sorry bud 
And I also ran across THIS on gun-broker. Very similar to what I wanna do, just some plain, tasteful mods to make the gun even better looking as well as perform better. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP you have nothing special, I would modify. That. Let me know when you replace the OEM grip safety. I like them. If I were to mod it, I would keep the stock parts, sorry bud And I also ran across THIS on gun-broker. Very similar to what I wanna do, just some plain, tasteful mods to make the gun even better looking as well as perform better. No worries! I do the very same thing  |
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Here is bassically what I want to do to the gun. With the exception of the ambi-thumb-safety (though I would replace the stock one), and the Ledge style sights over the "no-snag" sights, this is what I would re-create
http://www.bren-ten.com/agtman/id4.html 
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Quoted: Here is bassically what I want to do to the gun. With the exception of the ambi-thumb-safety (though I would replace the stock one), and the Ledge style sights over the "no-snag" sights, this is what I would re-create http://www.bren-ten.com/agtman/id4.html http://www.bren-ten.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/agtman-delta01.jpg  |
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The Colt pictured below (8 3/8" Python) never had a round through it (unless it was a factory proof round or something) when i bought it in '09 –– and mine is actually much older than '87 . Proof that my former owner was even dumber than yours ! I paid about a $200 premium for mine being NIB over one that may have been shot to shit, but thats a drop in the bucket for a nice Python anyway
It was a real pleasure to pop the cherry on a 35+ year old Python at the range the next day ! I have shot it somewhat regularly ever since . Would i modify it?–– hell no, but its hard to improve upon perfection. So basically, yes, i would definitely shoot that Delta if it were mine –––– the mods are up to you –––– personally i'd rather trick out a Springfield than a Colt, then you know that you are not tampering with anything that might have more value someday- but Springer doesnt make 10 mils. But it sounds like the value of these things has not been going up a huge amount anyway, so cut away since your slide is already dovertailed , none of your proposed mods appear to be irreversible anyway ! (the collector value, or lack therof , is only important if you truly feel you may want to sell out someday anyway ) 
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The Colt pictured below (8 3/8" Python) never had a round through it (unless it was a factory proof round or something) when i bought it in '09 –– and mine is actually much older than '87 . Proof that my former owner was even dumber than yours ! I paid about a $200 premium for mine being NIB over one that may have been shot to shit, but thats a drop in the bucket for a nice Python anyway It was a real pleasure to pop the cherry on a 35+ year old Python at the range the next day ! I have shot it somewhat regularly ever since . Would i modify it?–– hell no, but its hard to improve upon perfection. So basically, yes, i would definitely shoot that Delta if it were mine –––– the mods are up to you –––– personally i'd rather trick out a Springfield than a Colt, then you know that you are not tampering with anything that might have more value someday- but Springer doesnt make 10 mils. But it sounds like the value of these things has not been going up a huge amount anyway, so cut away since your slide is already dovertailed , none of your proposed mods appear to be irreversible anyway ! (the collector value, or lack therof , is only important if you truly feel you may want to sell out someday anyway ) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb285/streetstar707/Guns/046.jpg Very nice. No offense, but I don't think your Python and my D.E. are in the same league LOL Some of the mods are irreversible, the checkering the front-strap, and adding the beaver-tail would. Plus if I decided to blend a S&A mag-well to the frame. Though, if someone were to buy this gun from me second hand, the mods would make it much more of a pleasure to shoot. I guess I am due for a trip to the local 1911smith now. |
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The Colt pictured below (8 3/8" Python) never had a round through it (unless it was a factory proof round or something) when i bought it in '09 –– and mine is actually much older than '87 . Proof that my former owner was even dumber than yours ! I paid about a $200 premium for mine being NIB over one that may have been shot to shit, but thats a drop in the bucket for a nice Python anyway It was a real pleasure to pop the cherry on a 35+ year old Python at the range the next day ! I have shot it somewhat regularly ever since . Would i modify it?–– hell no, but its hard to improve upon perfection. So basically, yes, i would definitely shoot that Delta if it were mine –––– the mods are up to you –––– personally i'd rather trick out a Springfield than a Colt, then you know that you are not tampering with anything that might have more value someday- but Springer doesnt make 10 mils. But it sounds like the value of these things has not been going up a huge amount anyway, so cut away since your slide is already dovertailed , none of your proposed mods appear to be irreversible anyway ! (the collector value, or lack therof , is only important if you truly feel you may want to sell out someday anyway ) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb285/streetstar707/Guns/046.jpg Very nice. No offense, but I don't think your Python and my D.E. are in the same league LOL . Not exactly –– completely different mission statements for either one of those handguns, for sure ––––- but........ there are a lot of Colt purists out there who would say "don't touch a Colt! " etc , etc. whether its a Delta , a King Cobra, a Gold Cup or anything else. (much less a then $2000 Python) ––- i'll parrot what Ken Mays said by saying that the value of these things all too often just barely keeps up with inflation –– so we may as well enjoy them –– they were never meant to sit around in gun safes collecting dust , your gun was meant to be carried and shot... often . And if anybody asks –– at least you can say –– "at least i'm not as idiotic as the guy from ARFCOM who immediately erased $500 in value from a vintage Python by shooting it !" 
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The Colt pictured below (8 3/8" Python) never had a round through it (unless it was a factory proof round or something) when i bought it in '09 –– and mine is actually much older than '87 . Proof that my former owner was even dumber than yours ! I paid about a $200 premium for mine being NIB over one that may have been shot to shit, but thats a drop in the bucket for a nice Python anyway It was a real pleasure to pop the cherry on a 35+ year old Python at the range the next day ! I have shot it somewhat regularly ever since . Would i modify it?–– hell no, but its hard to improve upon perfection. So basically, yes, i would definitely shoot that Delta if it were mine –––– the mods are up to you –––– personally i'd rather trick out a Springfield than a Colt, then you know that you are not tampering with anything that might have more value someday- but Springer doesnt make 10 mils. But it sounds like the value of these things has not been going up a huge amount anyway, so cut away since your slide is already dovertailed , none of your proposed mods appear to be irreversible anyway ! (the collector value, or lack therof , is only important if you truly feel you may want to sell out someday anyway ) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb285/streetstar707/Guns/046.jpg Very nice. No offense, but I don't think your Python and my D.E. are in the same league LOL . Not exactly –– completely different mission statements for either one of those handguns, for sure ––––- but........ there are a lot of Colt purists out there who would say "don't touch a Colt! " etc , etc. whether its a Delta , a King Cobra, a Gold Cup or anything else. (much less a then $2000 Python) ––- i'll parrot what Ken Mays said by saying that the value of these things all too often just barely keeps up with inflation –– so we may as well enjoy them –– they were never meant to sit around in gun safes collecting dust , your gun was meant to be carried and shot... often . And if anybody asks –– at least you can say –– "at least i'm not as idiotic as the guy from ARFCOM who immediately erased $500 in value from a vintage Python by shooting it !"
LOL, I hear ya. I mean, if I were to sell it, I could probably get a couple hundred more than I paid if I looked for the right buyer. However, it's not every day you get the chance to buy a NIB unmolested & un-buba-ed Delta Elite like this. One of my good friends did bring up a good point when I talked to him today. He said I should proably run a couple mags through it to make sure everything is okay before I drop it off at the shop. |
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One of my good friends did bring up a good point when I talked to him today. He said I should proably run a couple mags through it to make sure everything is okay before I drop it off at the shop. It's always a good idea to shake it down thoroughly before you start dumping money into it. I'd say a minimum of 500 rounds through it, and more if you can swing it. |
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One of my good friends did bring up a good point when I talked to him today. He said I should proably run a couple mags through it to make sure everything is okay before I drop it off at the shop. It's always a good idea to shake it down thoroughly before you start dumping money into it. I'd say a minimum of 500 rounds through it, and more if you can swing it. Looks like I'll have to get some ammo then. BTW, I came across THIS tonight. Looks like a Delta Elite that was mag-na-ported. Not a bad idea in my book, hep with recoil and don't ad any compensator to the end of the gun. Mag-na-port claims a ported 10mm 1911 will shoot like a 45ACP 1911. |
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Best way to make a functioning gun nonfunctional is to just port it. After porting your going to have to play with spring rates to get back to 100%. If it were me I would download 10mm brass or just get a 40 barrel fitted and use a reduced rate recoil spring. While I do agree that downloading 10mm to 40 S&W specs is the easiest way to reduce recoil and increase shoot-ability, but when full power 10mm loads are used, they will be a handful. I wouldn't mind playing with spring weights to get it to work will if that meant shooting full power 10mm loads and having the recoil feel less. HOWEVER, since I don't plan on shooting full blown 10mm loads, as this is going to be a range toy, I think downloaded ammo may be the way to go. Another thought that hit me last night was, to sell the D.E. and buy a Dan Wesson RX-10 with the money. Still a 10mm 1911, already has a Beavertail & proper sights for what I want, and I wouldn't make all those Colt purests get all butt-hurt. Something like this: 
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I gotta admit, i have never had a chance to shoot a 10mm 1911 ––––- I do have a 10mm full size Glock though ––- it weighs less than a 1911 but it shoots very nice –– not soft necessarilly, but recoil is not an issue with that gun and it is very accurate for a service grade pistol ––––
questin is: Is the design geometry of the 1911 just not that conducive to harder kicking rounds? I hear more people complain about the 10mm round through the 1911 by far, than through a Glock or a CZ-75 (EAA Witness) |
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Okay guys, i have done some thinking and here is what I have decided. I will keep this Delta Elite, and I will do 6 phases on it.
- Phase 1: Replace dual recoil spring with Wolf 22lb recoil spring, Replace F.P.S. with a flat-bottom unit, GI Style recoil spring plug & guide, Tripp Cobra II Mags - Phase 2: Shoot the gun, run some rounds through it - Phase 3: Checker Front Strap, New Grip Safety, New Thumb Safety, New Grips, Polish Trigger Internals - Phase 4: Shoot the gun some more - Phase 5: Re-cut slide for Novak style sights, New Sights, Possibly Serrate top of slide - Phase 6: Shoot the gun some more My goal with this gun is to make it a practical shooter, and make the gun how Colt should have originally made it back then. I decided not to go with the Dan Wesson, as I am a huge fan of deep-blued 1911's, and I would rather have the Colt over the Dan Wesson. |
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Another thought that hit me last night was, to sell the D.E. and buy a Dan Wesson RX-10 with the money. Still a 10mm 1911, already has a Beavertail & proper sights for what I want, and I wouldn't make all those Colt purests get all butt-hurt. Something like this: http://guns.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/495/media/images/CZ_Dan_Wesson_Razorback_RZ-10.jpg That was the route I took. The DW had a ramped barrel, which was an important factor for me, as well as all the ergonomic enhancements the Delta lacked. Then I installed a .40 barrel to shoot USPSA Single Stack. 
The main thing to decide is whether you just want a 10mm, or whether you specifically want a Colt DE. |
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Another thought that hit me last night was, to sell the D.E. and buy a Dan Wesson RX-10 with the money. Still a 10mm 1911, already has a Beavertail & proper sights for what I want, and I wouldn't make all those Colt purests get all butt-hurt. Something like this: http://guns.findthebest.com/sites/default/files/495/media/images/CZ_Dan_Wesson_Razorback_RZ-10.jpg That was the route I took. The DW had a ramped barrel, which was an important factor for me, as well as all the ergonomic enhancements the Delta lacked. Then I installed a .40 barrel to shoot USPSA Single Stack. http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/dw-9.jpg The main thing to decide is whether you just want a 10mm, or whether you specifically want a Colt DE. Simple answer, yes, I want both. I always wanted a 10mm, and always loved the blued Delta Elite. BTW, Nice looking Dan Wesson |
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Who cares about the Colt lovers. It is your gun and what is done to it must make you happy. If your not going to be happy, then don't do it. Me I would of had that gun in milling vise 10 posts ago. My thoughts exactly at this point. It is my gun, I will do as I please. Plus the fact that I really am not butchering it, I am making it better. That, and the fact that I am letting a reputable smith do the work, as I know damn well I am not qualified to do the mods myself. |