Posted: 1/28/2011 6:51:29 PM EDT
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When I left the shooting community 5 years ago, Kimber was all the rage for 1911s, now looking here there is not much love.
What happened? (I did a search and the archives don't go back very far). |
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I think Kimbers have been hit or miss for years. My buddy and I went to gunsite when he had a Kimber Pro Carry II and it was nothing but FTF/FTE. I've owned a Custom II that was excellent. I think they make good stuff, the attention to detail is just not there.
I would blame the guy's who put them together . . . 
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Understand Kimber's history. In the 90s they were a leading cause why colt was in serious trouble. For years they offered the bells and whistles colt wouldn't at a better price to boot. Part of the hate came from them being a great source and fierce competitor for 1911s. I think some people take the loss badly. Either way, in my book, you can cut quality to keep costs down, or raise costs to keep quality up, but slash quality and raise costs (not to mention have a shitty rollmark and terrible liability safety) and your company is dead to me.
Add Para to the list for the same cost-raising/quality-cutting reasons (on a far greater scale). |
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In the late '90s I purchased a Classic Custom Target. That pistol has been an awesome and reliable addition to my collection. I have used that pistol at numerous weekend shooting classes as well as at Front Sight. I can recall no instance of having a failure (FTF, FTE) using Wilson 47D magazines. The only mod I have made are Wilson's 'Thin Grips'. All else remains stock. I probably have 3000+ rounds through that gun, and I will never sell it. I think some of the angst for Kimber came during the Series II/external extractor period. It would be interesting comparing mine to a current production to see what, if any, differences there are. m ETA: I run mine neither wet or dry. Generally, I use Enos' GunSlick. Usually, I'm running 230gr jacketed ball through it. |
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Quoted: When I left the shooting community 5 years ago, Kimber was all the rage for 1911s, now looking here there is not much love. What happened? If you had the experiences some of us had you would hate Kimbers too. I had a one that was such a flaming POS that I couldn't wait to get it out of my house and as far away from me as possible. What's worse, is that the company, their dealers and their insufferable fanboys ultimately blame the end-user: "You're limp wristing it." "You haven't run enough FMJ through it." "You're not using the right magazines." "You need to find ammo that 'it likes'" (as if it's some type of precious finicky pet). "You didn't polish your feed ramp." "You're not running it wet enough." "You're running it too wet." "You need a good gun smith." "Just get a dremmel tool." "You need to change your springs." ... blah blah blah blah. The fact is that when you buy one you're rolling the dice. If you happen to get a lemon (which obviously is quite often), you'll get a "f**k you, it's your problem" type of attitude. After I - thank you God - got rid of that overpriced paperweight I bought a G21. Twice the gun, half the money and NEVER EVER ONCE (i.e. not even one single time) had a malfunction. |
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I was a big Kimber fan (mine are from the late 90's) until they came out with the external extractor and firing pin safety. Right about that time their quality went down as well. Lots of MIM parts breaking, guns not running right, crappy magazines, etc.
Lately it seems like their quality has gotten better and they went back to an internal extractor. The shorter models seem to have the most issues based on what I have seen at training classes. Their prices seem a little steep on some models as well. |
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Quoted: My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. |
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Quoted: Quoted: My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. |
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Quoted: OK,just so that I have an idea what you consider civil and respectful, do you consider the comment in red above to be respectful and civil to the OP?Quoted: Quoted: My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. |
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Quoted: Quoted: OK,just so that I have an idea what you consider civil and respectful, do you consider the comment in red above to be respectful and civil to the OP?Quoted: Quoted: My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. Nothing in my post was uncivil or disrespectful in any manner. If you're looking for an account lock you're doing a good job. |
| All I can tell you is my own limited experience with Kimber. I've owned 2 Ultra Carry IIs and 1 5" Eclipse. The first UC was bought 2 years ago, the second earlier this month. The Eclipse was bought in December of last year. All 3 of them have been 100% reliable from round number one with any ball or HP ammo. I did pop an 80 series firing pin into each one since I found out it works better than a 70 series when disabling the Swartz system. Even with the slide off it moves in and out of the channel with zero friction without touching the safety plunger. |
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No kimber hate her, but I won't be buying any soon either. I don't want firing pin safties on my 1911s and I don't care for the stylistic choices that kimber has made with most of their guns. When my sister in law wanted to purchase her first handgun, she shot some of my 1911s and loved them. Later, a series 1 kimber became available to her and I strongly recomended that she get it. I've seen complaints about new guns from virtually every maker, and heard both good and bad customer service reports about kimber. They haven't worked to keep a sterling reputation when it comes to fixing problem guns, unlike springfield armory or ruger, so you'll hear more about the bad ones. They are more objectively known for usually making a good gun, and doing so in america with american parts. If you don't like firing pin safeties either, they do make one or two models without them. Nearly all 1911s in this price range are going to have some shortcomings, real or percieved.
Just because a gun is "what's hot" right now, or isnt hot right now, are somewhat unimportant. These machines can last several lifetimes if not abused, so just because Kimber may not be on the cutting edge doesn't mean they stopped making products worth having. I've got a dan wesson VBob. It's one of the "hot" guns right now because it boasts value that borders on the quality of guns that are hundreds more, but in 5 years they could become a company with spotty CS, QC, and so many different models, that they become too hard to decipher. |
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I personally had one slamfire, there was a problem with both the sear and half cock notch. But outside of that selling them as a Gold Dealer just kind of did it in for me. The CS was a joke, I mean I was told over the phone to tell customers to shoot 500rds through one then if it still isnt working send it in. I mean those first "Custom Shop" dinky ones with the stainless slides and coated frames, we had some of them that would jam every round. How are you supposed to look a guy in the eyes that spent a 1000 bucks in your shop to shoot 10 boxes of ammo out of it before you bitch. Then they ruined the reputation of MIM by importing parts from India Im told that failed. Recently, they blatantly rip off other shops models. Oh and the rollmarks are ghey. 
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I had a Kimber Ultra Carry II and I sold it within months of owning it.
It ran ok but had some failures to go into battery, but I blame that on the fact that I was trying to run 300+ rounds through it in under an hour in an indoor range so it got pretty filthy. But what really made me mad was the fact that it started to rust in several places, the beavertail safety, trigger, and hammer. I wore it against my side while working and the sweat caused the sides of all those parts that were up against me to rust. I thought maybe I just hadn't cleaned it or oiled it correctly. So I cleaned it and oiled it up very well, and within another week, the same rust came back but worse. I really wish I had taken pictures. The thing about it was that I have a basic MilSpec Springer that I wear the same way and for two years it's never rusted. Now I understand the finishes are different but for a gun Kimber charges $700+ for, I expect better quality. All things aside, while I was disappointed with that one Kimber I don't think all Kimbers are crap. I will be considering a railed model when I go 1911 shopping again in the future. |
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I have a Kimber from 1998, and it's been 100% reliable. But, I wouldn't buy a new one.
As mentioned before, quality control has gone to crap lately, and their customer service is lacking, at best. They will constantly blame the issues on something else. And, since most of the old-timers who knew how to work on 1911's have retired, their idea of warranty work is to slap a new slide assy on a pistol. If that doesn't work the first time and it comes back for warranty again, they replace the pistol and hope that one works. I heard yesterday that their "Custom Shop" has turned into a joke. The guy in charge of it was a forklift operator for Kimber last year. That's why there's all the Kimber hate out there. With quality control and customer service like that, they may as well change their name to Taurus. |
| My TLE II went back to them 4x for FTF'S and FTE'S I told CS that I was LE and I worked for a Kimber Gold Dealer......DId not make a difference still ran like SH@#!.... when it came back. Got rid of it and bought a Springfield that runs great....Now when people come in and want to pick up a Kimber I am glad to tell them my personal experience with the company........I have not sold one in years!!!! |
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INCONSITENCY My Kimber that was made in the late 90's is a CDP Compact. It is perfect in every way. No failures of any kind ever. Fast Forward a few years later...my Kimber Eclipse Prop II (1st year of issue) - horrible pistol....numerous failures to fire, failures to feed, failures to eject, etc. When I dealt with "Dennis" in charge of the Custom Shop...I heard every excuse in the book.... "you have to break it in for 800 rounds" "you are limp wristing it" "change the springs" "you need to run it wet" "It is Leap Year" "try a different mag" Only after a great contact of mine put me in touch with the military guru at Kimber....did they determine the barrel was drilled off center...and rebuilt the pistol. Never trusted that gun and traded it. Kimber is too much of a dice roll for me to buy. I am happy with the CDP that I have....but would never buy a new one. |
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When I left the shooting community 5 years ago, Kimber was all the rage for 1911s, now looking here there is not much love. What happened? If you had the experiences some of us had you would hate Kimbers too. I had a one that was such a flaming POS that I couldn't wait to get it out of my house and as far away from me as possible. What's worse, is that the company, their dealers and their insufferable fanboys ultimately blame the end-user: "You're limp wristing it." "You haven't run enough FMJ through it." "You're not using the right magazines." "You need to find ammo that 'it likes'" (as if it's some type of precious finicky pet). "You didn't polish your feed ramp." "You're not running it wet enough." "You're running it too wet." "You need a good gun smith." "Just get a dremmel tool." "You need to change your springs." ... blah blah blah blah. The fact is that when you buy one you're rolling the dice. If you happen to get a lemon (which obviously is quite often), you'll get a "f**k you, it's your problem" type of attitude. After I - thank you God - got rid of that overpriced paperweight I bought a G21. Twice the gun, half the money and NEVER EVER ONCE (i.e. not even one single time) had a malfunction. +1 on all of this. I've been through a half dozen 1911's, including a Kimber. I now have one, an original Colt Series 70 that I think I can depend on. My G21 doesn't care about anything on this list either. |
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OK,just so that I have an idea what you consider civil and respectful, do you consider the comment in red above to be respectful and civil to the OP?
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My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. Nothing in my post was uncivil or disrespectful in any manner. If you're looking for an account lock you're doing a good job. Really? |
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Ok before things get out of hand, the the question has been answered pretty well. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with me.
There's always one or 2 who think Brand X is the best since sliced bread, and others who think it the Devil's company. Sounds like a customer service and QC control issue. I wasn't trying to bash Kimber or extol their virtues, I really wanted to know what happened (Perhaps I was outta the loop longer than I thought) Now I know (I need that NBC "more you know" star.) |
| I have a Kimber Classic I purchased in 1998 and it's been flawless, but my Eclispe Pro Target's rear sight came loose after 50 rounds. Had to stake the adjustment screw to keep it from walking loose again. I wouldn't say my Kimber 1911's are any more maintenance-intensive than my Glocks, but they do have tighter tolerances (slide to frame fit for sure) and do need some more break in (maybe 100 extra rounds) when new to burnish over all the friction surfaces. It's not like owning a 1911 from any manufacturer should require you to be a 1911 armorer and trouble-shoot pistol-based feeding issues or loose parts out of the box. If someone is using OEM Kimber or aftermarket Wilson mags, quality factory ammo and their new Kimber pistol doesn't shoot reliably without any FTF or FTE after 50~100 rounds, it's Kimber's issue, not the owners, and they should fix it. |
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OK,just so that I have an idea what you consider civil and respectful, do you consider the comment in red above to be respectful and civil to the OP?
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My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. Nothing in my post was uncivil or disrespectful in any manner. If you're looking for an account lock you're doing a good job. Really? +1 Very heavy handed treatment for just disagreeing with the mods opinion. 
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[ Really? +1 Very heavy handed treatment for just disagreeing with the mods opinion. Either get on topic or take it to the pit/GD, since beating this in the dirt doesn't solve anything other than adding another padlock icon to the thread list. And disagree or not, you (general, as in "we all") should be damned grateful for what we have here regarding this style of form and moderation. That poster would have been banned for saying "crap" (and I wouldn't be surprised if he was banned for saying "sanctimonious" ) on most if not ALL1911-centered boards out there, which have a zero tolerance policy for negative feedback of ANY 1911, use of language not approved for Barney & friends, or the slightest disagreement with the mods. |
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OK,just so that I have an idea what you consider civil and respectful, do you consider the comment in red above to be respectful and civil to the OP?
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My Kimber Custom II and Warrior have both functioned fine from day one, just like the majority of Kimbers sold. If you don't know how to keep a 1911 running or are unwilling to learn you're most likely better off without one. This is sanctimonious crap. The only thing needed to keep a properly built 1911 running is more loaded mags. It does not take some mystical hoodoo, holding your mouth a certain way, or sacrificing virgins to pagan gods. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am mine. All I ask is that you keep it civil and remember that you're not posting in GD. If you can't post respectfully in this forum you won't be posting at all. Nothing in my post was uncivil or disrespectful in any manner. If you're looking for an account lock you're doing a good job. Really? +1 Very heavy handed treatment for just disagreeing with the mods opinion. +2 the mod is good at giving his opinion and threatening when others give there's . |
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6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner. This isn't GD, posting your opinions is encouraged, being purposely disrespectful while adding nothing to the discussion is not. Those of you that have a problem the rules here with it feel free to IM me otherwise feel free not post here. |