[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Kimber or Springfield (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/29/2010 5:02:23 PM EDT
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So what would you choose, and why?
Kimber Eclipse Custom II or Springfield Armory Lightweight operator This will be my first 1911 
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If the Kimber did not have the Swartz I would get that one. +1 I bought one anyways, accurate as can be, and no hiccups so far, but I cant keep it as my bed-side gun because that swartz is always in the back of my mind. Don't do what I did, get a gun you can trust. |
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If the Kimber did not have the Swartz I would get that one. +1 I bought one anyways, accurate as can be, and no hiccups so far, but I cant keep it as my bed-side gun because that swartz is always in the back of my mind. Don't do what I did, get a gun you can trust. How many people have actually had an issue with the swartz safety failing or causing an issue? edit: spelling |
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I don't like it. I've seen it fail less than perfect grip the hammer will fall but the gun will not go boom. This might be the reason Colt choose to stop using it.
I've got no problems with 80 series, but I'll take a box stock 1911 fcm first 80 series second. I will not purchase Swartz. |
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If the Kimber did not have the Swartz I would get that one. +1 I bought one anyways, accurate as can be, and no hiccups so far, but I cant keep it as my bed-side gun because that swartz is always in the back of my mind. Don't do what I did, get a gun you can trust. How many people have actually had an issue with the swartz safety failing or causing an issue? edit: spelling Compared to the 1000 or so pistols that Kimber cranks out each week, its probably a percentage of 1%. There isnt a mass produced product on the planet that doesnt hit a few foul balls. Its just the nature of the beast. Its just like MIM. Every time someone asks about MIM related issues, the same 5 or 6 problems get posted and compared to 100s of 1000s of guns produced, its minuscule. |
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Quoted: +1Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If the Kimber did not have the Swartz I would get that one. +1 I bought one anyways, accurate as can be, and no hiccups so far, but I cant keep it as my bed-side gun because that swartz is always in the back of my mind. Don't do what I did, get a gun you can trust. How many people have actually had an issue with the swartz safety failing or causing an issue? edit: spelling Compared to the 1000 or so pistols that Kimber cranks out each week, its probably a percentage of 1%. There isnt a mass produced product on the planet that doesnt hit a few foul balls. Its just the nature of the beast. Its just like MIM. Every time someone asks about MIM related issues, the same 5 or 6 problems get posted and compared to 100s of 1000s of guns produced, its minuscule. If the Schwartz safety was even close to being the problem everyone thinks it is, then sales would suffer and companies would do something about it. Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. Will it break and get you killed when you reach for it in the middle of the night? Its possible, but so is a wheel assembly falling off a jumbo jet, coming through the roof of your house and landing in your bed. Get a gun you can trust? Let me know when you find that one! |
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It depends on what you want. The Kimber will be heavier because it is all steel where as the Operator frame is aluminum. The Operator has a rail and the Kimber doesn't. What is the purpose of the gun?
I have a Custome II. No issues with it in 4+ years. A few thousand rounds of .45 through it and several thousand more rounds through a conversion kit with it. It gets carried daily and shot on the regular. The only change that I have made is the sights because I wanted tritium. Soon it will have some VZ grips 
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I tend to sway heavily to the Springfield side of the equation. They've got some awesome customer service if you ever need them (had to send an XD slide in, no problems with my 1911's). Kimber's customer service has had widely varying reviews from excellent to astonishingly bad. Another fly in the ointment is Springfield's Lifetime warranty compared to Kimber's 1 year. Springfield stands behind theirs, Kimber may or may not give 2 shits about you after that one year period.
That said, I'm not a fan of the aluminum framed guns. If you'd say MC Operator, it'd get my vote in a heartbeat. I'm just about split on this one. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Do you want an American made 1911 pistol? Do you want a Brazillian made knockoff of a 1911, masquerading as possibly American made. I would pick the Kimber. The couple I have owned have had no issues. Kimber is a knockoff of a Colt 1911 as Well. Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you want an American made 1911 pistol? Do you want a Brazillian made knockoff of a 1911, masquerading as possibly American made. I would pick the Kimber. The couple I have owned have had no issues. Kimber is a knockoff of a Colt 1911 as Well. Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? I'll take the on that is reliable. And Kimber ain't it. |
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Quoted: Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Believe it or not, blind ethnocentrism does NOT help this country in the long run. Cling to your one problem with where they might be manufactured all you want, by purchasing Colt, you're just helping them along by not forcing them to compete. |
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Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Believe it or not, blind ethnocentrism does NOT help this country in the long run. Cling to your one problem with where they might be manufactured all you want, by purchasing Colt, you're just helping them along by not forcing them to compete. 
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exactly, look what happened to US automotive industry... notice the improvements in American cars since the bailouts? Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Believe it or not, blind ethnocentrism does NOT help this country in the long run. Cling to your one problem with where they might be manufactured all you want, by purchasing Colt, you're just helping them along by not forcing them to compete. |
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Do you want an American made 1911 pistol? Do you want a Brazillian made knockoff of a 1911, masquerading as possibly American made. I would pick the Kimber. The couple I have owned have had no issues. Kimber is a knockoff of a Colt 1911 as Well. Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Are you sure the Kimber is entirely made in the US with US produced parts? My guess is no. |
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Do you want an American made 1911 pistol? Do you want a Brazillian made knockoff of a 1911, masquerading as possibly American made. I would pick the Kimber. The couple I have owned have had no issues.  ...I love my TLE,My Custom II works like it's suppose to. |
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I had a Kimber once, it was the biggest piece of shit that I have ever owned to top it all off, The piss poor customer service was was worse than the pistol I heard this more than once, and that's why I went with Springfield. I don't regret it for a second. |
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Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Believe it or not, blind ethnocentrism does NOT help this country in the long run. Cling to your one problem with where they might be manufactured all you want, by purchasing Colt, you're just helping them along by not forcing them to compete. Say what you want, but history is against you. I like both pistols, I think the large parts of the Kimber (frame, slide, barrel) are nicer than Springfield, but Springfield does a better job with the little stuff, and their frame/slide/barrel are definitely not bad. When it's my money, I spend it where the best customer service and warranty is. Buy Springfield. If you are looking to make a custom piece and you are only planning to keep the frame, slide, and barrel and therefore the warranty is a moot point, buy Kimber. |
| Here is a little clue for most of you. Do a little reasearch on who the current "Kimber" really is, and who they used to and still do make 1911 componets for. It works a little like this, "Kimber" is to this former manufacturing company that now carries the "kimber" name, as "Stag Arms" is to Continental Machine and Tool. Only 1 is in the AR world of Manufacturing, and one is in the world of 1911 Manufacturing. I would even go as far as to say that most of you that own High End 1911's actually own pistols with "Kimber" produced frames and slides. Most f these companies are tied together in one way or another, but very few of them are actually set up as full out CNC manufacturing centers that can turn raw stock and forgings into useable Weapons Parts. "Kimber" is one of those manufacturing capable entities, and has a HUGE presence in the 1911 world, either my manufacturing assemblies for other makers, or turning out their house brand. Im sure google can take most of you to the truth from here. |
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If the Schwartz safety was even close to being the problem everyone thinks it is, then sales would suffer and companies would do something about it.
Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. Will it break and get you killed when you reach for it in the middle of the night? Its possible, but so is a wheel assembly falling off a jumbo jet, coming through the roof of your house and landing in your bed. Get a gun you can trust? Let me know when you find that one! You don't have a clue what you are talking about. |
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Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Not looking to start a fight...but what do you mean? Honestly. I don't notice anything via the trigger, just the grip safety. |
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Quoted: If the Schwartz safety was even close to being the problem everyone thinks it is, then sales would suffer and companies would do something about it. Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. Will it break and get you killed when you reach for it in the middle of the night? Its possible, but so is a wheel assembly falling off a jumbo jet, coming through the roof of your house and landing in your bed. Get a gun you can trust? Let me know when you find that one! You don't have a clue what you are talking about. I always love statements like these. No rebuttal. No constructive information. Just complete brilliance on a level that is so far beyond me that I'd rather just be the stupid person that I am.  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. Will it break and get you killed when you reach for it in the middle of the night? You don't have a clue what you are talking about. I always love statements like these. No rebuttal. No constructive information. Just complete brilliance on a level that is so far beyond me that I'd rather just be the stupid person that I am. He's commenting on the fact that you've confused the Swartz with the Series 80 Colt FPS. The Swartz works off the grip safety and has NO interaction with trigger-pull. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does it affect trigger pull? Yes it does although most people dont notice it, don't know any better or don't care. Will it break and get you killed when you reach for it in the middle of the night? You don't have a clue what you are talking about. I always love statements like these. No rebuttal. No constructive information. Just complete brilliance on a level that is so far beyond me that I'd rather just be the stupid person that I am. He's commenting on the fact that you've confused the Swartz with the Series 80 Colt FPS. The Swartz works off the grip safety and has NO interaction with trigger-pull. See, now explaining it makes sense to me. I didn't know that. |
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Here is a little clue for most of you. Do a little reasearch on who the current "Kimber" really is, and who they used to and still do make 1911 componets for. It works a little like this, "Kimber" is to this former manufacturing company that now carries the "kimber" name, as "Stag Arms" is to Continental Machine and Tool. Only 1 is in the AR world of Manufacturing, and one is in the world of 1911 Manufacturing. I would even go as far as to say that most of you that own High End 1911's actually own pistols with "Kimber" produced frames and slides. Most f these companies are tied together in one way or another, but very few of them are actually set up as full out CNC manufacturing centers that can turn raw stock and forgings into useable Weapons Parts. "Kimber" is one of those manufacturing capable entities, and has a HUGE presence in the 1911 world, either my manufacturing assemblies for other makers, or turning out their house brand. Im sure google can take most of you to the truth from here. That used to be the case with Jerico Precision/Kimber. They built parts for Wilson until they pissed Bill off. Not so much anymore. Remsport does most of this now. Having owned several examples of KImber (including a Clack marked one), get the Springfield. ETA: For those who aren't familiar with Kimber's history and believe they've been making 1911's for over 25 years since they put out a 25 yr. anniversary model, here is the actual history. The Ultimate 1911 (Full article on post #11 and another article on post #13) The Government Model industry was shaken to its core by the introduction last year of Kimber's 1911. Priced at a mere $625... ...How Kimber, a name associated with high grade hunting rifles, came to be in the 1911 business requires a little history lesson. The story begins in Yonkers, N.Y., with a company called Jerico Precision which was founded in 1978 as a manufacturer of hand tools and a subcontractor for various defense industries. The name Jerico comes from founders Jerry Roman and the late Richard Brown, an acronym for "Jerry and Richard's Company." ...Jerico needed two things: a market and somebody who knew about 1911's. The help they found turned out to be businessman Leslie Edelman, owner of a major firearms and accessory wholesale company called Nationwide Sports, and Chip McCormick who knows something about 1911s. At the time, Edelman was a minority shareholder of Kimber Of America and his plan was to connect Jerico's manufacturing capability with Kimber's established dealer network. The project began in the winter of 1994 and the prototypes of the "Kimber" pistol were shown at the 1995 SHOT Show. Controversy swirled around the sample at the show, which were in fact made by Caspian Arms with the serial number and manufacturer's identity hidden under the grip panels. Then in late 1996 Edelman purchased Jerico and changed the name to Kimber Manufacturing. In April, 1997, Edelman closed Kimber's riflemaking facility in Oregon and moved the entire operation to Yonkers. That's the history of how the Kimber 1911 came to be... ~ American Handgunner Sept/Oct 1997 Kimber has always used MIM parts. For the first guns, the parts were made in Spain with molds owned by Kimber. When they got the MIM machines in Yonkers, the molds came over here. Initially, even the bushings were MIM. This changed about 6 months into production with the delivery of two machines to make stainless steel bushings. The Series II safety was introduced in 2001. No other parts on the gun were changed at that time. MIM then, MIM now. When purchased by Kimber, Jerico was also making slides for Wilson Combat (and Kimber continued to make them for about 7 years.) Kimber and Wilson had an advertisement battle in 1997 as a result of Kimber advertising a gun worth $1500 for $615. Here is a blurb from American Handgunner in 1997 on the dueling ads: |
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Yeah, a knockoff made in the USA. So I will rephrase the answer. Do you want a Colt 1911 knock off that is made in the USA(Kimber), Do you want a Colt 1911 knockoff that is made in Brazil and pretending to be USA made(Springfield)? Believe it or not, blind ethnocentrism does NOT help this country in the long run. Cling to your one problem with where they might be manufactured all you want, by purchasing Colt, you're just helping them along by not forcing them to compete. What an excellent rebuttal. Your logic is irrefutable and your rhetoric striking. We all bow to your superior debate skills. WIZZO_ARAKM14 is correct. Blindly buying American is pretty dumb. You buy all union, too? Fact is, Springfield makes a quality product for a reasonable price and stands behind every single thing that has their name stamped into it, no matter how old and no matter how many folks have owned it. I don't say that because I heard. I say it because I've sent back a couple of their products that previous owners screwed up through abuse and negligence. Springfield fixed them both for free. My Kimber was another story. It simply refused to feed more than two or three mags before it would start to choke, no matter what was done to it and Kimber didn't care because I wasn't the original owner. Sure, any company can put out a lemon, and sure, there are exceptions to every rule but my experience appears to be about par for both companies based on what I hear from other customers. To put it another way: Hi-Points are all American, while Glocks are not. Which would you rather carry? Yes it's an extreme example, but you get the point. OP: get the Springfield and don't look back. |
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Here is a little clue for most of you. Do a little reasearch on who the current "Kimber" really is, and who they used to and still do make 1911 componets for. It works a little like this, "Kimber" is to this former manufacturing company that now carries the "kimber" name, as "Stag Arms" is to Continental Machine and Tool. Only 1 is in the AR world of Manufacturing, and one is in the world of 1911 Manufacturing. I would even go as far as to say that most of you that own High End 1911's actually own pistols with "Kimber" produced frames and slides. Most f these companies are tied together in one way or another, but very few of them are actually set up as full out CNC manufacturing centers that can turn raw stock and forgings into useable Weapons Parts. "Kimber" is one of those manufacturing capable entities, and has a HUGE presence in the 1911 world, either my manufacturing assemblies for other makers, or turning out their house brand. Im sure google can take most of you to the truth from here. Yeah, that, or you could stop talking like some kind of paranoid meth addict at a bus stop and spit out what you really mean, along with sources. Otherwise, it's just some bullshit you heard at the gun counter and decided to shit back up in this thread. *I understand lots of manufacturers do contract work for lots of other manufacturers. I'm not disputing that. |
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I'd go with Springfield, I have a V10 ported ultra compact 2 tone that is fully loaded, shoots like my friends Kimber does and it didn't cost a fraction of what he paid for the Kimber he gave $1700 for it.
His gun needed work before it would feed ball ammo, it was an easy fix but he also went the extra mile and worked the other surfaces to make it function like his Colt does. OTH Kimber & Wilson mags work well in my Springer.
Depending on what you are looking for, durability, fit and function, warranty/CS and price will determine where you decide to buy. Don't let the buy American only people spoof you into thinking Brazilian or other countries guns are inferior, no one wants to think that they will have to use a warranty at any time but knowing a company will stand behind it a few years down the road is pretty nice. |