Posted: 9/16/2010 10:31:37 AM EDT
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This topic could probably go here or the carry forum but I figured that in the carry forum I would get "Buy a glock" too many times to make the thread worth while so here it is.
I bought and have watched the Magpul handgun DVD's. Good stuff. In one of the sections they discuss full sized handguns and the sights that are optional. In discussing the 1911 Travis claims that he carries with a Fiber Optic front sight because within 15 yards he is mostly point shooting (my words not his) and beyond that he needs to be able to aim more precisely. Apparently he feels comfortable taking 50 yard shots with the fiber optic front sight because it is fine enough that he can shoot with some precision at that range. Am I the only person that feels that at 50 yards I'm probably not going to use my 1911 or do you guys subscribe to a similar philosophy as Travis? I have night sights because during the day they look like big white dots that I can line up and at night I can see them. I don't feel like this sight system limits me for a self defense setup. What say you fair gentleman? Am I missing the mark or is he talking about a different kind of scenario? |
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Take my response with a grain of salt...I'm not Travis nor have I watched the video (I live under a rock I guess).
I carried a 1911 on duty and we would shoot 50 yds at a range or greater just so I could show recruits that with proper sight alignment and trigger control you can hit things at rifle ranges with a pistol. I'm not advocating to match long range threats with a pistol, but distance should not be a factor of proper sight alignment with a pistol. I had night sights on my weapon, but prefer a gold bead...I guess I'm old. |
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At those kind of ranges, the fiber optic doesn't enter the equation. You will be acquiring a traditional sight picture, aligning the top and sides of the front sight, or you won't be hitting much. I probably didn't do the description justice. That was his point. Because he has to pick up a regular sight picture the fine nature of a fiber optic front sight allows him to be more precise at that distance. His comfort level with 'point and shoot' was 15 yards. Beyond that is where he prefers that setup and he brought up that he can be pretty accurate to 50 yds. |
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At those kind of ranges, the fiber optic doesn't enter the equation. You will be acquiring a traditional sight picture, aligning the top and sides of the front sight, or you won't be hitting much. I probably didn't do the description justice. That was his point. Because he has to pick up a regular sight picture the fine nature of a fiber optic front sight allows him to be more precise at that distance. His comfort level with 'point and shoot' was 15 yards. Beyond that is where he prefers that setup and he brought up that he can be pretty accurate to 50 yds. A fiber optic allows quick acquisition of the front sight, but it adds nothing to a sight picture that would enhance accuracy at that distance... IMHO. |
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Another option is to use Testers enamel paint on the front sight blade. I use Gloss Orange on all my carry and hunting pistols with open sight's.
I find that I can acquire my front sight with my peripheral vision while keeping my eyes on the target very easily with this color blade and it only costs pennies for me to paint all my sights this way. Also I find Orange Gloss contrasts very sharply with virtually any background with the possible exception of shooting into the sun, in which case I doubt a fiber optic would help. JMOFWIW |
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Quoted: As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... Really, ever been in a mall parking lot? Yes, and I have also watched several prosecutors manipulate facts during a self defense case and a jury of your peers that have no knowledge of firearms decide your fate based on your lack of Due Care. If you feel it was wise move, good for you, but the prosecutors also know the 4 rules of gun safety (know your target and whats beyond it). Transfered Intent is a real bitch, as are Criminal Recklessness and Reckless Endangerment when dealing with a deadly weapon and the court system... |
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I agree with the anything under 5-7 yards is goung to be point shooting.
I find myself doing that on the pistol stage of a local run and gun. The pistol targets are pretty close, and I'll aim down the side of the slide popping off rapid fire. I always INTEND to get a sight picture, but never use it. Pretty good hits too close spaced and COM. 50 yards? I'd be good for suppressive fire, but hitting anything would be pure luck. |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? This |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? Going to law school, are we? 
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? Going to law school, are we? Nope, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night 
If you carry, you have likely adopted the mentality that you would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six (I have), but you still have to weigh those questions any time you consider drawing, and again when pulling the trigger... in some cases its a nano-second, at 50 yards it's likely not... |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? Well, sure, nobody is gonna draw down and drop a guy with a knife at 50yds
I see SGB posted something about a mall parking lot as an example. Inside a mall, or wal*wart with an ACTIVE shooter would raise the possibility of a 50yd shot, IMO. Heck, around here, some of the malls have upwards of 200yds of straight hallways. Walmart has over 125yds across the front of the store from groceries to the garden center (most likely more). There are exits you can take at walmart, but if you get trapped in a store in a mall with the shooter coming your way, the possibility of that shot is real. Not real likely (since I avoid the mall like I avoid downtown Indianapolis ), but the possibility is there.Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? Well, sure, nobody is gonna draw down and drop a guy with a knife at 50yds
I see SGB posted something about a mall parking lot as an example. Inside a mall, or wal*wart with an ACTIVE shooter would raise the possibility of a 50yd shot, IMO. Heck, around here, some of the malls have upwards of 200yds of straight hallways. Walmart has over 125yds across the front of the store from groceries to the garden center (most likely more). There are exits you can take at walmart, but if you get trapped in a store in a mall with the shooter coming your way, the possibility of that shot is real. Not real likely (since I avoid the mall like I avoid downtown Indianapolis ), but the possibility is there.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The possibility is there, but the situation will also be very fluid. You or the shooter or both will most likely be moving/maneuvering. |
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As a civilian if you are in an engagement with a handgun at 50 yards you better be in wide open spaces or have a damn good attorney... While the odds are slim anyone will need to shoot at 50 yards in a gunfight it doesn't negate having the ability and skill to do so. Unless you are taking fire, what situations would a jury say you faced an imminent threat from a target 50 yards away? If you are defending someone else from that range, how effective are you really going to be, and how sure of you background are you? If it really came down to my life and some piece of shit's life I would have to say, "I will worry about the legalities later." My justification would be that the piece of shit was still shooting at me so I figured it would probably be in my best interest to shoot back. Edited to add: I don't have a problem with shooting under a car to hit my attacker in a foot either. Better to look like a live yellow bellied puss than a dead cadaver at an autopsy. |