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Posted: 2/25/2002 9:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2002 9:24:07 PM EDT by No4MK1]
Here is my 1910 DWM in .30 Luger.

From what I have been told this was re-barreled in .30 Luger from 9mm post WWI for export to America.

Note the stud on the safety plate fabricated by my grandfather.

I have only fired this pistol once. Cases stuck in the chamber horribly. One required the use of a brass rod to punch it out. The few rounds I fired were in a nice tight bunch at 7-yards.

Cheers,
Chris

[edited to mention that all parts except barrel have matching serial #s]



Link Posted: 2/27/2002 12:41:30 PM EDT
Very interesting Luger, No4MK1!
I have not seen many 1910 DWMs around.
Your barrel is marked underneath indicating the caliber change? Again, unusual, as most caliber conversions went the other way, i.e. .30 Luger to 9mm. You are absolutely positive this is 7.65mm??
Grandpa installed the stud on the safety when the original lever didnt work anymore? Drat!
According to my books, (Jan Still, "Imperial Lugers") 1910 was the first year to carry a factory applied chamber date as required by 1910 regulations. It came from the factory as a 9mm Parabellum, without a stock lug on the rear grip strap,(just as yours shows). These guns were manufactured without the holdopen on them, but one may have been added later.
The proofs and inspection stamps were also moved from the left receiver to the right side in this year. Since they were serial numbered in the Commercial style,(location of numbers), but this is a Military gun, your serial# should be in the range of 5095b to 5358d.
Only 17,000 were produced, making this a somewhat rare beast. An Imperial crowned eagle should appear on the right receiver, right breechblock and barrel, (if barrel was the original). Also crown/gothic letter inspection stamps (most have 2, the late ones had 3) on the right receiver.
Because of the rebarreling and the safety modification, much of the collector value is gone, but as a matched number early Military Luger, I would still consider it precious and fascinating.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 5:11:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2002 5:12:47 PM EDT by No4MK1]

Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch:
Very interesting Luger, No4MK1!
I have not seen many 1910 DWMs around.
Your barrel is marked underneath indicating the caliber change? Again, unusual, as most caliber conversions went the other way, i.e. .30 Luger to 9mm. You are absolutely positive this is 7.65mm??



I can only find a veeerrry lightly marked 8 4 (I think... I'm not sure about the 4) at the breach on the underneath of the barrel. I am sure that it is not 9mm, as the chamber is obviously cut for a necked cartridge.



Grandpa installed the stud on the safety when the original lever didnt work anymore? Drat!



Actually, the original lever does still work. My Grandfather was a classic tinkerer. He wouldn't of left the Mona Lisa alone. :-)



According to my books, (Jan Still, "Imperial Lugers") 1910 was the first year to carry a factory applied chamber date as required by 1910 regulations. It came from the factory as a 9mm Parabellum, without a stock lug on the rear grip strap,(just as yours shows). These guns were manufactured without the holdopen on them, but one may have been added later.



It does have a last shot hold open.



The proofs and inspection stamps were also moved from the left receiver to the right side in this year. Since they were serial numbered in the Commercial style,(location of numbers), but this is a Military gun, your serial# should be in the range of 5095b to 5358d.



I don't see any obvious inspection stamps on the right of the receiver except what looks like an F on the flat above the trigger pin.
The serial # on the front of the receiver directly underneath the chamber is 648 with what looks like a script a underneath. The gun is fairly worn.



Only 17,000 were produced, making this a somewhat rare beast. An Imperial crowned eagle should appear on the right receiver, right breechblock and barrel, (if barrel was the original). Also crown/gothic letter inspection stamps (most have 2, the late ones had 3) on the right receiver.



I can find none of these. again the gun is fairly worn...



Because of the rebarreling and the safety modification, much of the collector value is gone, but as a matched number early Military Luger, I would still consider it precious and fascinating.



Thank you! This pistol has always intrigued me. I just have a feeling it has a very interesting story to tell.

Oh... I have photoshopped the serial off the photo. Email me if you would like to see some more details

Cheers,
Chris

Cheers­,
Chris

[edited to fix quotes]
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 4:43:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2002 11:46:54 PM EDT by Ross]
Well I finally dug out the Luger to take some pics:
http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0KgAAAK4OUjMAzMfutStL6DHakqwx2qOt5cTQWypTT3EX­g3OcWaD43XMOAqI8NAs7eCq66Uwx1so/luger1.jpg
It's a DWM, .30cal. It looks like an older reblue. All the numbers are matching, but there aren't any other markings except the nitro-proof marks and the "DWM" on the top. Wooden magazine floorplug.
http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0KgCeGa8OdTP0FDZVo4geFo71HEo2V5QKywdbYZOQkC5K­uIcnAhXKNu1OtQicFyCNEDukDBu0FCc/luger2.jpg

It's fun to shoot, but I don't get to use it much because of the cost of ammo. I bought several boxes of .30Luger from J&G when they had a Fionchi sale. The stuff works fine, but it just doesn't grow on trees. I still can find it at the shows, and I probably could find a decent price if a bothered to look, but I'm still working on my J&G stash. I suppose I'll need to start reloading for it if I used it more. For $350 though, it's a fun gun!

I like your luger as well NO4MK1. The original finish is not that bad. Mine's been reblued, so collector value is pretty low. But at least I'm not the only guy on the board with a DWM .30cal Luger.

Ross
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 7:37:35 AM EDT
Nice Luger, Ross!
Yeah, .30 Luger ammo is getting pretty scarce but is ballistically awesome.
You got a great deal on the price for a matching gun, even is it has been reblued.
I would take a wild guess and say it is a 1920 commercial if the serial is 4 digit, or a 1923 commercial if it is 5 digit.
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:32:55 AM EDT
It's a 4 digit S/N. 34XX. I've only shot it a couple times. When I had it apart for cleaning, the parts inside that were marked were matching to the serial number. After the first range trip, I quickly bought one of those Luger tools to help load that mag! Anybody know what the legality of a shoulder stock would be. The frame has the lug, but I wasn't sure if legally it had to be a Navy or Artillery?

Ross
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:50:01 AM EDT
On your model Luger, a shoulder stock is not permitted, according to batf. The only models batf allows the stock to be mounted on are their narrowly restricted list:

"Section III Guns
Luger, Artillery model, pistols having chamber dates of 1914 through 1918
or 1920, having German Weimar Navy markings consisting of the letter M
over an anchor and a German Navy property number accompanied by original
Artillery Luger flat board stocks, bearing German Weimar Navy markings
of the letter M over an anchor with or without Navy property numbers.

Luger, the 1920 Commercial Artillery model, pistols as mfd. by DWM or
Erfurt, having undated chambers, commercial proofmarks, and bearing the
inscription Germany or Made in Germany on the receiver and accompanied
by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.

Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum
cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either
4" or 4-3/4, with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal
frame grips.

DWM Luger, Original models 1904, 1906, 1908, 1914 and 1920. Naval pistols
in 9mm parabellum or 7.65mm cal., in both the Commercial and Naval military
varieties; in both altered and unaltered barrel lengths in themodel 1904
and in both altered and unaltered safety markings in the model 1906; with
original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs,
with or without markings, or, if without brass or iron discs, being of
the Navy flat board-type. This exemption applies only to the listed Naval
Luger pistols if mated to the Naval Luger stock and will not apply if
theNaval Luger pistol is mated to the Artillery stock. The Naval stock
has an overall dimension of 12-3/4", a rear width of 4-5/8",
a front width of 1-1/2", a rear thickness of 9/16", and a front
thickness of l-3/16".

Luger, DWM Stoeger model 1920 and 1923, semiautomatic pistols in 7.65mm
or 9mm parabellum cal., in barrel lengths of 8, 10, 12, and 12-1/2",
having either American Eagle chamber crests and/or Stoeger frame and/or
upper receiver marks, having either standard, Navy or artillery rear sights,
having extractors marked either "Loaded" or "Geladen"
and having frame safety markings of either "Gesichert" or "Safe,"
together w/original commercial flat board stocks of the artillery type,
which bear no S/Ns or military proof marks;may include a "Germany"
marking.

Luger, DWM Pistol-Carbine, model 1920, 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal.,
with accompanying original commercial type shoulder stock, with or without
forearm piece, having barrel lengths of 11-3/4" to less than 16".

Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt,
having chambers dated 1914 - -1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks
& accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable
wooden shoulder stocks.

Luger, model 1902, Pistol-Carbine, 7.65mm Luger with original commercial
type shoulder stock and forearm and 11-3/4" barrel.

(cont.)
Link Posted: 3/18/2002 9:51:39 AM EDT
(cont.)
Luger, Persian (Iranian) Artillery model, pistols, as mfd. by Mauser prior
to 1945, accompanied by the original artillery type, detachable wooden
shoulder stock, bearing a S/N in Farsi characters stamped into the wood
on the left side.

Luger, semiautomatic pistol, certain variations with Benke-Thiemann folding
shoulder stock.

Mauser, commercial Luger Artillery model semiautomatic pistols cal. 9mm,
Mauser banner marked, produced under contract for the Royal Thai Police
accompanied by original, German mfd., detachable wooden shoulder stocks.

Section III-A Guns
Borchardt, model 1893, cal. 7.63mm pistol with accompanying shoulder stock.

Section IV Guns
Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 75 Jahre,
Parabellum-Pistol, Mod. Karabiner, Commemorative, caliber 9mm, accompanied
by a carbine type shoulder stock."



Some repro stocks will also be permitted on the aforementioned guns, according to BATF:

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOCH0L T0BACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20226

MAY 29 1981


<Addressee removed >

Dear <Name removed>,

This refers to your letters of March 13 and March 30, 1981, in which you ask that certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols equipped with reproduction shoulder stocks be considered for removal from the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

It is not the policy of this Bureau to render a classification on a Shoulder stock which in and of itself is not subject to the provisions of The Gun Control Act or the NFA. However, as you are aware, certain Luger and Browning Hi-Power pistols when accompanied by original shoulder stocks have been removed from the purview of the NFA.

Our Firearms Classification Panel has examined your request and is their opinion that the above mentioned pistols equipped with currently made reproduction shoulder stocks which either duplicate or closely approximate the dimensions and configuration of the original stocks would also be primarily of interest to collectors and not likely be used as weapons. Therefore, any Luger or Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not be subject to the NFA is equipped with a reproduction shoulder stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the dimensions and configuration of the original stock.

It must be pointed out that should one of the subject reproduction stocks be attached to any handgun which has not been specifically removed from the purview of the NFA with an original stock, the combination would be subject to all of the registration and transfer provisions of the NFA.

We trust that the foregoing has responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
[signature]
Assistant Directory
(Technical and Scientific Services)



Link Posted: 3/22/2002 6:15:25 PM EDT
I have a fun little P-38. It's from the Walther factory and made in '41, At some time during it's life it was chromed. Still tight as can be and great fun to shoot most anywhere except indoors. Even indoors it's a blast as long as you're wearing a hard hat. All numbers match.

Link Posted: 3/23/2002 6:03:51 AM EDT
OH MAN! Believe it or not, I used to own an AC 43 that was hard chromed! I bought it the same time I bought my hard chromed Colt DS from the same guy. I was never into chrome guns, but the finnish is a decent one to use, and the price for both was outrageously low, so I figured I'd get them. The Colt has admittedly served me well.

As for the P-38, it worked well enough, but the rear sight was loose, so accuracy wasn't much. I sold it or traded it for something or other that I had to have then and probably don't anymore. I probably should have kept it and just fixed the rear sight, but I'll probably pick up an example that's not so shinyhad
Ross
Link Posted: 3/23/2002 7:41:29 PM EDT
Many P-38s were chrome or nickel plated by the GIs that brought them home as war trophies.
In the 50s, few considered that these guns would ever become collector pieces someday, and the fad seemed to be making them shiny.
It detracts considerably from the value, unfortunately, but does make for some very nice looking pistols, I think.
I have a nickeled Luger that is just gorgeous, but even though all matched, and in great shape, it is now considered just a shooter.
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