[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best mouse gun (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/31/2009 6:36:28 PM EDT
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Which is better for a pocket pistol? .22LR or .25ACP?
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.32 or higher so many choices lately. Sig, Kahr, Ruger, Kel-Tec, I think the 9mm you are looking for is the Rohrbaugh(really sweet) NAA Gaurdian, Seecamp And I'm probably still missing a bunch. Here is a sweet chart for mouse guns. http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf My vote for value would be the Kahr(will admit I have only read about it) or Ruger LCP(I love mine has been 100%) |
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22 over 25. Seriously. I carried a Beretta 21 in .22 for a while way back.
But, if you're going to get a pocket gun, for just a touch more get a P3AT or an LCP in .380. I have the LCP, and I think it's great. Several friends have the P3AT, again, good reviews from them. And, biggest benefit to having a mouse gun...you always have it with you. People may scoff at a .380, but I say I'd rather have 6 .380 in my pocket than the 16 9mm at home! |
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Common wisdom dictates that rim fire ammunition is less reliable than center fire ammo so for self defense, the nod should go to the .25 ACP.
That being said; I've had a Smith and Wesson Model 61-3 Escort that I bought new back in the late 60's or early 70's for around 50 dollars that runs flawlessly, it's a lot of fun to shoot and it still looks almost NIB. These little guns are being advertised online now as collectibles for 200-500 dollars and I've seen them on sale locally for $350. I infrequently carry my Escort as a bug but in reality, I don't believe it provides much, if any, additional protection at all. |
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I've got a Beretta 21A .22LR that is a bitchin' little gun. It's tiny, comfortable, very easy to shoot, and is quite accurate. It's also surprisingly reliable for a rimfire semi-auto. But I don't think I'd carry it.
.25 ACP is really close to .22LR in power out of such a short barrel, but the .25 ACP is a more reliable feeding and firing round. It's stick with the .25. That is, of course, if you CANNOT get/find/borrow anything a bit more potent. I'd look at the new, really small 9x19 pistols If I were you. I own the 21A just for novelty factor. |
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25ACP over .22 in a really short barrel(2inch or so) 4 inches or more the .22. There are browning 1900 copies in 25acp
Melnior makes one with a positive safety and recoil spring over barrel (it is a styker fired pistol,so no round in chamber) But the FN 1900 with firing pin controlled with the recoil sping is much safer to carry loaded chamber,still a styker but the most hard hitting styker ever designed(over even Glock,Kel-tec .ect). 25Acp over the .22LR,32Acp over the .25ACP..380Acp over the .32Acp,9X18 over the .380 and 9x19 over the Mac round. And so on till you hit Ten Mil then all bets are off! JMPO Bob 
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| S&W 642 .38 special J-frame lightweight revolver is the best pocket pistol I've found. But yeah these days the old .25acp pocket pistols are well outdone by the .380acp pistols which are the same size and weight. You can even get a Kahr PM9 9mm pistol which would be my choice for a good pocket auto. |
| As I'm sure many others have said, you don't want either of the these calibers for a mouse gun. If you look at terminal effects of the ammunition involved I think you'll arrive where most others here have: If you can't live with the size of a J frame .38 special and absolutely gotta have smaller, .380 is the floor. I would work on concealing the .38 though. That and practice. You're going to be surprised just how hard it is to hit anything with these small guns. |
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Rofl, rofl. The OP asks for a preference of either .22LR or .25ACP. Most responses were for either .32 or .380. To the OP (and the hive): Isn't the 22 ballistic ly superior to the 25 anyway? Not out of theses really short barrels. There really isn't any difference performance wise. .25 costs an arm and a leg to shoot and rimfire is less reliable. |
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.22 LR ... Price & availability. You have to shoot SEVERAL brands to see what your gun likes ( feeds 100% ). Someone commented on my .22 pocket gun once," I'D Just Laugh if ya shot me with that".. My reply was " yeah, you would probably laugh like hell, because, I WOULD SHOOT YOU TEN TIMES
His smart grin suddenly turned up-side down, and he just starred off, pondering ten hits all over his person. Along this note, I spoke with a Forensic pathologist in a big city hospital and asked "What is the worst gun shot wounds you see..?, His reply..( .22 cal ). According to him,the hi velocity, and small bullet can hit an arm, follow it up to your neck and go from there. If it enters the skull 1200-1300 fps it will circle the brain a few dozen times = D.A.S. ( dead at sean) Same with a rib cage. Best place to hit ,PELVIC area causes MASSIVE bleeding,(which para medics cant stop = D.O.A.), and much,much pain. (they'll be flop'n around like a fish out of water, gives ya time to reload).Yeah, I'd give em a few shoots below the belt line and shoot my way up saving one for the head. Id rather be missed with a .44 mag, than Hit with a .22 Again find what feeds from an auto, and stick with that brand, this is fact for any caliber. ( Is there a possible market here for targets with the 10 zone in the pelvic area..? ) |
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Which is better for a pocket pistol? .22LR or .25ACP? Neither. Those are both shit calibers for self-defense. Personally, I won't go with less than 9mm or .38spl, no matter what. The smallest, most reliable "pocket gun" I can recommend is a J-frame size revolver in .38spl or .357mag. If it absolutely HAS to be a pocket auto, .380ACP would be the absolute lowest limit I would go with. Certainly not .25ACP or .22lr. |
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S&W 642 .38 special J-frame lightweight revolver is the best pocket pistol I've found. But yeah these days the old .25acp pocket pistols are well outdone by the .380acp pistols which are the same size and weight. You can even get a Kahr PM9 9mm pistol which would be my choice for a good pocket auto. Yep the 642 is good. I like it more than the Kahr however I wouldn't mind one of those either. Both are snappy however should be great for short distances. There's also a Kahr .380 that looks good. |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. +1 exactly most of us are attempting to give you a fighting chance. |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. +1 exactly most of us are attempting to give you a fighting chance. Exactly. The answer to the OPs question is that they're both shit for defense. You don't see a "concensus" on which is better, because of this. Which is better? A rock, or a slightly bigger rock? Answer: neither. Sorry the OP doesn't get that. |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. +1 exactly most of us are attempting to give you a fighting chance. Exactly. The answer to the OPs question is that they're both shit for defense. You don't see a "concensus" on which is better, because of this. Which is better? A rock, or a slightly bigger rock? Answer: neither. Sorry the OP doesn't get that. Sorry Double post ! Two fingers up yours dude! Bob |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. +1 exactly most of us are attempting to give you a fighting chance. Exactly. The answer to the OPs question is that they're both shit for defense. You don't see a "concensus" on which is better, because of this. Which is better? A rock, or a slightly bigger rock? Answer: neither. Sorry the OP doesn't get that. You have never been in a rock fight,cause I'm a pitcher and can zing big rocks sidearm that can take your head off! And if I shot you with .25acp right between the eyes you would wish I had used a .45acp (cause you would feel less pain) You don't know squat about firearms or why they were invented,JMB invented firearms in .25acp,32 acp,38cp,45acp,and these mouse guns really kill things! Bob
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I'd go for centerfire over rimfire for the reliability, although there are some rimfire ammos I'd trust.
But with that said, if you want a pocket gun, get one of the little 380s and load it with some Gold Dots. They have 380s that are small enough now for pocket carry and 380 gives you more punch. Or one of those little Kel Tec 32s would be good too. |
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I wonder if you guy talking about putting one "right between the eyes" or a "couple in the pelvis then work my way up" have evr shot one of these mouse guns. I have a Beretta 21a, I would consider it one of the better of the breed. I can barely keep it in the chest at 7 yards. There is no way I could hit any one "right between the eyes unless I left powder burns on his forehead.
I always considered it a put it to the temple and pull the trigger kind of weapon.This is a big part of why I consider them toys at best, you just can't hit with them at all. I suppose they would be good to intimidate someone into backing down, but if you think you are going to stop a determined foe, think again. |
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I've owned and still own tiny semi-auto peashooters in both calibers.
My experiences would lean towards buying a .25 auto if reliability is what you want from your mouse gun. They really ain't good for much, but are fun to shoot in either caliber. 
A Keltec .32 or .380 really are not much larger than most of the tiny pocket pistols, and give a much bigger BANG, plus a substantialy bigger bullet. Price comparable too. |
If I had to choose and it was a defensive gun I'd take the .25. Center fire ammo is far more reliable than rimfire ammo. I can't remember the last time I had a "dud" centerfire round and I can't remember the last time I shot any of my .22s without having a "dud" round. 
That being said if you really want a pocket gun get a PM9. If that's too expensive, big or heavy for what you're looking for get a P3AT or LCP. |
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If you read about the Irish mob back in the 70's and 80's the two guns they seemed to favor were the .32 and .25,killed a fuck ton of folk with ether,so I'd say stick with the .25 since you have the center-fire primer that makes sure the thing will go bang whenever you pull the trigger.
I know how most of the "experts" on here will snub the .25 but I give you an A for trying,at least you WILL carry it and having a gun,any gun,is better then none. Now as an aside I would rather carry a .380 since they're the same size now as the old .25's and pack more of a punch,but you wanted to know about the .25 and .22 so there you go. |
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? Against ground squirrels? 25 Corbon DPX. You got helpful responses. The question was flawed. +1 exactly most of us are attempting to give you a fighting chance. Exactly. The answer to the OPs question is that they're both shit for defense. You don't see a "concensus" on which is better, because of this. Which is better? A rock, or a slightly bigger rock? Answer: neither. Sorry the OP doesn't get that. You have never been in a rock fight,cause I'm a pitcher and can zing big rocks sidearm that can take your head off! And if I shot you with .25acp right between the eyes you would wish I had used a .45acp (cause you would feel less pain) You don't know squat about firearms or why they were invented,JMB invented firearms in .25acp,32 acp,38cp,45acp,and these mouse guns really kill things! Bob
Wow. I'm nowhere near as squared away as you are. 
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I am well aware of the greater effectiveness of larger calibers. I did not ask about that. Thank you to the few who actually answered my question. There does not seem to be a general consensus of which is better .22LR or .25ACP. Any data comparing the two? The ballistic data gives a slight nod to the 22LR. Historically however, rimless cartridges are more reliable then rimmed ones in semi-auto firearms. You need to consider the reliability records of the mouse gun designs, not just the caliber. |
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I'd go with .22lr. Obviously not my first choice and I feel no need to go any smaller in caliber of gun than my Kahr PM9. I am much more competent with it than my 32acp seecamp I sold, although that was a great pocket gun too.
I can buy .22lr anywhere and could afford to practice enough to be competent with a pocket .22. Plus it'd be compatable with my other .22's. So I have multiple reasons. And I may get a pocket .22 one day for shits a grins although I have no plans to pack it unless the zombie attack as a 4th or 5th gun maybe. Plus it's against my Departmental policy to carry guns not on the approved list. Still it would be fun to have. |
I have both. I figure these little bad boys are better than nothing. I use a .22LR in the summer in my Levi's 5th pocket. When I have my Levi's jacket I carry the .25 ACP in the inside pocket. My .22 is a NAA Mini with 40 gn. solid points and a Baby Browning with Speer Gold Dots.
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I've also have a NAA Mini revolver in .22LR for deep concealment. I did have for 20 years a nickled Baby Browning in .25 ACP.
When you use these small cartridges the platform (gun) has to be considered. There are only a few 22/25 that still have a use today because the are still smaller then most current 32/380s. The two above are good examples. If you are going to be carrying a automatic in the two cartridges then I'll go with the .25 for the rimless case and centerfire priming for better realiblity (taking for granted the gun feeds). I a small mini revolver then I'll take the .22LR. The only small .22LR auto that I found 100% realible was my old Beretta 21A that I had but I also had a Beretta Tomcat when the first came out and it was only slightly larger. Couple other realiable small .25s are the Colt 1908, orginal Seecamp, CZ45. Anything larger in size you can move up to the .32/.380 class. Believe Guns and Ammo once tested the mouse gun cartridges and guns ballastically around 2000 or so. CD |
