Posted: 1/3/2009 10:18:55 AM EDT
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A friend of mine just completed a police academy in which he was taught two things: to never use the slide stop to load a round. Instead always pull back on the slide thereby releasing it and loading the round.
The second thing was to never insert a round by hand into the chamber in order to achieve max capacity +1. What is the reasoning behind these methods. As a Marine I was never taught this. Am I wrong or is this nonsense. |
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1. The slide stop doesn't give the user the maximum potential power in chambering
2. I don't know about other handguns, but I know on a 1911, loading directly into the chamber will damage the extractor. The extractor will have to ride over the cartridge rim instead of slide into it. |
| The slingshot technique is taught for several reasons - the strongest chambering, use of gross motor skills under stress, and no confusion on where the slide stop is (Sigs are further back). The problem is for guns with slide-mounted safeties, you can accidentally engage it (Beretta, S&W) while slingshotting the slide. Whether this technique is essential is debated. |
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Quoted:
..................... The second thing was to never insert a round by hand into the chamber in order to achieve max capacity +1. Absolutely correct, extractor problems. Load from mag, drop mag, add +1 into mag and re-insert into pistol. Item #1 is debatable. |
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As many already said, loading one round in to the chamber is not good and should only be used for a very rare emergency occassions as it can damage extractors.
As for the first one, I'd say xm8 nailed it except for strongest chambering. Using slide lock eliminates chances that people will baby the slide. Something that could happen with slingshot or hands-over-slide technique is that people will baby it, and fail to utilize the recoil spring's power. Using slide lock will let the recoil spring do the work, but at the same time, it has its own problems. Slide lock is not the easiest to reach on a lot of guns, and are located in different positions. For sake of uniformity, hands-over-slide is more useful. |
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Quoted:
As for the first one, I'd say xm8 nailed it except for strongest chambering. Using slide lock eliminates chances that people will baby the slide. Something that could happen with slingshot or hands-over-slide technique is that people will baby it, and fail to utilize the recoil spring's power. That's fair, I think the mindset would be to "attack" the slide. Anyhow, I know the Beretta guys use the slide stop, and it's frame-mounted safety would explain why the OP was never taught to slingshot in the Marine Corps. |
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Quoted:
As many already said, loading one round in to the chamber is not good and should only be used for a very rare emergency occassions as it can damage extractors. As for the first one, I'd say xm8 nailed it except for strongest chambering. Using slide lock eliminates chances that people will baby the slide. Something that could happen with slingshot or hands-over-slide technique is that people will baby it, and fail to utilize the recoil spring's power. Using slide lock will let the recoil spring do the work, but at the same time, it has its own problems. Slide lock is not the easiest to reach on a lot of guns, and are located in different positions. For sake of uniformity, hands-over-slide is more useful. Good post. I agree with all of this. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
As many already said, loading one round in to the chamber is not good and should only be used for a very rare emergency occassions as it can damage extractors. As for the first one, I'd say xm8 nailed it except for strongest chambering. Using slide lock eliminates chances that people will baby the slide. Something that could happen with slingshot or hands-over-slide technique is that people will baby it, and fail to utilize the recoil spring's power. Using slide lock will let the recoil spring do the work, but at the same time, it has its own problems. Slide lock is not the easiest to reach on a lot of guns, and are located in different positions. For sake of uniformity, hands-over-slide is more useful. Good post. I agree with all of this. +1 in addition, over the slide method is easier to do under stress w/ less practice vs various slide stops hits |
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Quoted: THISQuoted: ..................... The second thing was to never insert a round by hand into the chamber in order to achieve max capacity +1. Absolutely correct, extractor problems. Load from mag, drop mag, add +1 into mag and re-insert into pistol. Item #1 is debatable. |
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Quoted:
A friend of mine just completed a police academy in which he was taught two things: to never use the slide stop to load a round. Instead always pull back on the slide thereby releasing it and loading the round. The second thing was to never insert a round by hand into the chamber in order to achieve max capacity +1. What is the reasoning behind these methods. As a Marine I was never taught this. Am I wrong or is this nonsense. Lesson number 1 is retarded. It's a holdover from those who have some silly misunderstanding about "gross motor skills" who insist that you can't hit a slide release under stress....meanwhile they don't seem to preach that you can't eject the magazine or pull the trigger under stress, both of which are also "fine" motor skills. The reality is that the technique should depend on the person handling the weapon and the details of the weapon itself. If somebody is issued a Beretta 92 or a S&W 5906 the overhand method isn't the greatest option because you can engage the safety. On a Glock where the slide release is tiny and hard to use, the overhand method is probably better for most folks. Lesson number 2 is correct for most handguns. Loading the chamber and then dropping the slide on the round is a great way to break the extractor on a lot of pistols. Glocks are particularly unhappy with this practice. Beretta 92/M9 series pistols are actually designed to allow it in case the magazine is lost or not operating on the weapon. Still, even with them it's not a good idea. |
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Quoted:
Lesson number 1 is retarded. It's a holdover from those who have some silly misunderstanding about "gross motor skills" who insist that you can't hit a slide release under stress....meanwhile they don't seem to preach that you can't eject the magazine or pull the trigger under stress, both of which are also "fine" motor skills. The reality is that the technique should depend on the person handling the weapon and the details of the weapon itself. If somebody is issued a Beretta 92 or a S&W 5906 the overhand method isn't the greatest option because you can engage the safety. On a Glock where the slide release is tiny and hard to use, the overhand method is probably better for most folks. Lesson number 2 is correct for most handguns. Loading the chamber and then dropping the slide on the round is a great way to break the extractor on a lot of pistols. Glocks are particularly unhappy with this practice. Beretta 92/M9 series pistols are actually designed to allow it in case the magazine is lost or not operating on the weapon. Still, even with them it's not a good idea. Amen . . .  Lesson #1 is geared towards teaching to the lowest common denominator (ie: dumbest shit in the class)
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Some pistols such as the Kahr series have manuals saying use the slide stop for the exact reason that some people ride the slide instead of letting it go.
Loading the chamber has a lot to do with whether a pistol has an internal or external extractor. My Ruger P95 manual says that it is fine to do. I just figure that if the factory says it is ok then I will do it if I am so inclined. |
| Kahr PM9 manual specifically states to use the slide release instead of racking the slide. In practice, the pistol wouldn't reliably feed the first round of the mag unless you locked the slide back and then released it. It would consistently FTF when you simply racked the slide by hand. |
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My S&W M&P consistently drops the slide anytime I slam a magazine home. It makes for a very fast reload, but I had also heard "never do" #1 and am interested in seeing if anyone has had problems with it.
I put 200 rounds through my M&P last shoot, with the slide dropping on its own each time.. it ran 100% |
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The dropping slide question ranks up there with "what is your view on abortion?" with some instructors.
I work at an academy part-time, and we do NOT teach the slingshot method...it is the whole hand over the top of the slide, squeeze with four fingers against the palm of the hand and rack the slide. I have one guy I work with at the SO that swears the only way to drop the slide is to use the slide stop. I think that is BS...and I teach to use whatever way works best for you. I have become so accustomed to grabbing the whole slide, I think I'm just as fast as the others. There is a point to the lowest common denominator, as the generations of new cops come along...my God, that is another thread in and of itself. Our agency issues M&P .40 pistols. I've seen more slides drop on mag changes with this pistol than on any other. If it works, great...but don't count on it to. VJ |
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regarding part two of your question:
My friend has a Beretta 90-Two, and he told me that the instructions specifically state that a single round CAN be loaded directly into the chamber and the slide closed afterwards. It all has to do with how teh extractor was designed. His just effortlessly slides into place...whereas my Sig P226 must be FORCED on. I do not chamber in this method as it is bad for my gun. Check with your gun maker to see what they say. If the spring weight itself allows the extractor to slip over the bullet rim without SLAMMING it, then it is probably OK. If you have to use any speed or have teh slide travel through the full movement plane, then the extractor is being forced onto the bullet, and this is not good usually. |
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Quoted:
My S&W M&P consistently drops the slide anytime I slam a magazine home. It makes for a very fast reload, but I had also heard "never do" #1 and am interested in seeing if anyone has had problems with it. I put 200 rounds through my M&P last shoot, with the slide dropping on its own each time.. it ran 100% When you give the M&P a good bump in just the right spot during a reload, it will indeed close on it's own. I've been training with the M&P for a couple of years now and I've never had it spontaneously drop from slide lock on me. My technique must just be very different. That being said, I wouldn't rely on the weapon automatically chambering for you. Ditto Glocks. A lot of guys say that their Glock automatically chambers when they reload. It doesn't happen for me. If you strike the very back part of the grip with the heel of your weak hand at about a 45 degree angle it's usually sufficient force to cause the slide to drop. |
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Quoted:
My S&W M&P consistently drops the slide anytime I slam a magazine home. It makes for a very fast reload, but I had also heard "never do" #1 and am interested in seeing if anyone has had problems with it. I put 200 rounds through my M&P last shoot, with the slide dropping on its own each time.. it ran 100% When you give the M&P a good bump in just the right spot during a reload, it will indeed close on it's own. I've been training with the M&P for a couple of years now and I've never had it spontaneously drop from slide lock on me. My technique must just be very different. That being said, I wouldn't rely on the weapon automatically chambering for you. Ditto Glocks. A lot of guys say that their Glock automatically chambers when they reload. It doesn't happen for me. If you strike the very back part of the grip with the heel of your weak hand at about a 45 degree angle it's usually sufficient force to cause the slide to drop. |