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Posted: 9/19/2003 9:55:18 AM EDT
Hello,

In a little over a month, I'll be gleefully moving out of Mass into a new home in NH, opening up my possibilities for many brands of 1911, instead of just a S&W.

I'm not looking for comfortable grips, match
triggers, or anything like that, I have a couple other handguns I am already enamored with for their ergonomics, accuracy, confidence for use in self-defense, etc...

I'd like this to be as close to a "classic" 1911, as possilbe.

I know Springfield Armory has a "Mil-Spec" model, but I hear people here poo pooing SA, mentioning Kimber, and a few other brands instead.

My questions are:

1. What models do other 1911 mfgrs have available which would give me as close to a
classic WW2/Cold War era military issued .45?

2. Are almost all 1911 mfgrs following the same blueprint for their 1911's, or can I expect "Kimber" only trigger parts, "Colt" only, etc...
even in the basic models offered?

Link Posted: 9/19/2003 10:27:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I'd like this to be as close to a "classic" 1911, as possilbe.

I know Springfield Armory has a "Mil-Spec" model, but I hear people here poo pooing SA, mentioning Kimber, and a few other brands instead.

My questions are:

2. Are almost all 1911 mfgrs following the same blueprint for their 1911's, or can I expect "Kimber" only trigger parts, "Colt" only, etc...
even in the basic models offered?




For what you are looking for, and for the money, the Springfield Mil-Spec should fit the bill perfectly. Unless you want to search out an era firearm, I would suggest going with the Springfield.

To answer Question #2, there are subtle differences with the Kimber Series II, Colt 80 series and the mil-spec. That being the Kimber Series II have an integral FP block which is disengaged by depressing the GS. Some people have had issues with this addtion, I personally have not. The Colt 80 series has a similar, but entirely different, firing pin block. It (IIRC) acts on different parts of the FCG.

I've not dealt with an 80 series Colt, but can tell you most parts on a Series II Kimber will interchange with standard parts. The firing pin is a bit different, but other than that...

Jonathan
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 10:29:01 AM EDT
My vote would have to go to Springfield for value vs price in a new mil-spec 1911 today. I really like the Series I Kimbers, but they are no longer made...amd were never a "mil-spec" gun to begin with. Don't care for the Series II guns with the grip safety-activated firing pin block myself, but they finally have them working now I understand.

Question #1) Colt is making a real 1911A1, or was at least, but they are aimed at the collector market and cost is around $850-950 or so. There are still a few military guns floating around, but they are getting pretty high-priced for a parts gun...which is what almost all of them really are, and unless you get very lucky you will be competing for the gun at collector's prices. I would recommend staying away from some of the others out there such as the Kahr/Auto Ordnance or the various copies made in the Phillipenes and elsewhere. Some say they have had decent performance from them, but I personally don't trust the metallurgy on some or the workmanship on others. The exception is if you find a really clean Norinco...again no longer imported but often found at gun shows for around $375-400...no warranty however.

#2) In basic guns, most "name" manufacturers follow the same pattern IF...and only if...the gun is of the "classic" 1911/1911A1 design. The models with added safties, etc. typically do not.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 12:46:40 PM EDT
I have the SA 1911A1 model and love it. The only modification I've done is to add walnut grips ($15, Gov't. surplus) and a full-length guide rod (about $17-$18 from DPMS or Dillon Precision) and IMHO, I can't see why anyone would spend $150-$200 more for their "decked out" model to get more accuracy. Don't have any experience with Kimber, though their compact carry models are QUITE accurate for a pistol with only about 3" of barrel. (a guy in my CCW class had one) One thing is for certain-there's a 1911 model out there for whatever you want to pay.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 1:35:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
IMHO, I can't see why anyone would spend $150-$200 more for their "decked out" model to get more accuracy. Don't have any experience with Kimber, though their compact carry models are QUITE accurate for a pistol with only about 3" of barrel. (a guy in my CCW class had one) One thing is for certain-there's a 1911 model out there for whatever you want to pay.



I have an SA Mil-spec and love it. I've changed out the stocks and the trigger. ~$30 or so.

I have a Kimber Target Eclipse II and love it too. Its entirely different, but yet, all the same.

I also have a custom made 10mm 1911. I like it better than the other two, but I specified every single part in it. It fits me just right and is far more precise than my skill allows me to be. The care and quality that went into it is apparent when I handle/shoot it.

All three of these pistols fit somewhere in my scheme of shooting, and between the three are widely varying prices. There really is something for anyone in the 1911 market.

Jonathan
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 1:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2003 1:55:10 PM EDT by SGB]
WARNING !!!!! WARNING !!!!!


.......1911's are addictive


WARNING !!!!! WARNING !!!!!

.......The Springfeild Armory Milspec would be a good choice.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 2:30:14 PM EDT
You have my vote for the SA Milspec as well. The WW2 version Milspec is pretty darn close to original specs. If you shop around you can find them for less than $400, around here anyway. I paid $430 for my "regular" Milspec, which has a SS barrel, SS bushing, lowered ejection port, etc but it still somewhat resembles the original 1911A1.

You just need to ask yourself how correct you want your 1911 to be. The current Colt 1911A1 reproduction is as close as you can get to original spec but also costs twice as much as the Springfield WW2 Milspec.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 5:45:37 PM EDT
I own two SA 1911s & the only complaint I've ever had is their two-piece barrels in their .45s.

Colt uses plastic parts in their 1991s so you may or may not care about those.

Kimber tweaks their guns so much they're not 1911s, IMO, they're simply single actions.

Auto Ordnance, Kahr are other options. Quality seems to be hit or miss on them.

Avoid Llama & Charles Daly, IMO.

My .o2
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 8:02:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 9:39:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 8:03:51 AM EDT by Green0]
DOGMA WHERE DO I GET ONE???? WHO IS THE DISTRIBUTOR????

Holy Shit there's your answer.. No shitty SA slide serrations, no flat sided spur hammer, no longer than mil-spec grip frame. IT EVEN HAS THE ROUNDED SPUR AND LANYARD LOOP MSH!!!!!!!!

THAT IS THE REAL MCCOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been looking for a Colt Commercial model but didn't like the idea of accurizing (IE destroying the collector value of a early production 1911.)

"Kimber tweaks their guns so much they're not 1911s, IMO, they're simply single actions."

Yeah that Safety is BS, External extractors are gay. But Kimber is still a 1911. SA has there ILS (I'm Liberal Scum) MSH safety system too.

NIETHER SA NOR KIMBER ARE MIL-SPEC (granted the Kimber doesn't look anywhere near as close to mil-spec GI as the SA offering).


Kimber of America
does not support
linking of images

GOOD FOR THEM what a bunch of fags.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 3:53:40 PM EDT
I recommend the kimber custom II.

Link Posted: 9/21/2003 8:35:05 PM EDT
1. Springfield Milspec
2. Springfield Loaded
3. Colt 1991
4. Colt Series 70 Reissue


All excellent handguns, just get the one that comes closest to the features you want.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:38:09 AM EDT
Colt now offers a repro WWII 1911A1, but I, for one, am not about to pay big bucks ($700ish) for the relatively primitive ergonomics of the milspec gun.

I recommend the SA milspec without reservations. They are a good basic gun and have some important upgrades over the "real" milspec guns, like the lowered & flared port, sights you can actually see, and a couple other minor things I don't recall at the moment.

Kimber has sort of gone their own way to some extent. I think the external extractor is an good thing. Most good 1911 smiths will tell you that the extractor is the one thing that causes the most function problems (outside of magazines). I am cautiously optimistic regarding their firing pin safety. My opinion of that may change if it breaks on me, but one of the reasons I bought the gun I did was to finally find out for myself the truth about the Kimber issues.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 7:12:04 PM EDT
I have to go with SA for a mil spec model, however why go milspec with all the guns out there with custom features for a few dollars more. I just traded my SA trophy Match for a Kimber TLE and it was a even trade. Both are excellent guns and not much more and ALOT more comfortable to shoot than a milspec model :)
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 3:45:49 PM EDT
Another vote for Springfield here!!!

Other than that... Check around for a used Colt...
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 4:08:28 PM EDT
The twins:
Consecutive number Colt 1991's.

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 4:35:07 PM EDT
i would say SPringfield also. although i personally have a LesBaer, but SA would be next on my list unless i got a killer deal on a colt, only cause i dont own any colt products. Kimbers are good, but around here all the A-holes swear by them and if ya dont have one your an outcast, so i choose not to buy into that type of hype, but they are excellant firearms as well.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 4:40:18 PM EDT
Why not an older Colt, say 1991?
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 5:03:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2003 5:04:42 PM EDT by Derek45]
Springfield Mil-spec is a good choice.

The Kimber Classic is also a great choice even thought it has a bunch of newer features like a beavertail grip safety, lowered ejection port, etc..
These features are worthwhile, they make the gun handle better.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:26:48 AM EDT
I like Colts myself, but around here even the used ones are going for $600. The little pony on the slide seems to give the seller license to ratchet the price up $200 over NIB.

Anytime I find one going for it's actually worth, I make a habit of jumping on it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 10:29:47 PM EDT
I would go with the SA "Mil-Spec" too.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 2:59:16 AM EDT
Another one for the Springfield Mil-Spec. Just got one several months ago for my first 1911 and love it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:29:50 AM EDT
The majority here knows something about "bang for the buck"...Springfield seems to have it covered.
For a first 1911, I would be a bit leery of a used Colt, mainly from the possibility of being overused/abused or home gunsmithed.
That said, I still feel the earlier Colts are classics and the real deal.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:42:25 AM EDT
The new role marked 1991A1's go for around $570.00. The Mil Spec. Springfield's for around $410.00. I think the Mil Spec is a great value but the 1991 is a nicer piece.
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 7:10:23 PM EDT
Having had the SA MilSpec and a loaded, a Kimber ProCarry, and a Wilson, The best bang for the buck is the MilSpec.
The Loaded line of SA's are not milspec, and have larger dust covers than the Colt's.
Kimber's original 2 runs (Both pre grips safety FP BS) are also good guns. Stay away from the Series 2 guns.
I have seen 3 Kimbers break, and have seen countless sights that were cut at about 3 AM on Saturday, after a night of heavy drinking and drug use.
The rear sights had not ONE straight line in the rear notch.
I have seen Kimber Series II extractors break, had a customers mag release break and disappear, and her plunger tube was lose as hell.
Had another guy come in with his kimber, and he couldn't get it to fire at all. While checking it out, I heard a crunching sound from the guide rod.
Told him to take it home and tear it down. Never found out what it was, but I suspect that the spring broke from the noise.

There is no Kimber for me in the near future.

Now, If I could only find a nice 9MM Colt Commander.....
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 11:05:31 PM EDT
I'll be the odd ball and say Armscor 1911 Standard Model. If price is the limiting factor (I know Mil Specs can be had for a few dollars more). Have nothing bad to say about mine and it shoots fine. Still saving for the Custom II TLE, though.
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 11:17:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2003 11:30:41 PM EDT by desertmoon]
Being an old fan of Sprinfield Armory I am gonna stand up and say DO NOT buy a Springfield Mil Spec. Stooping to ever-new-lows, apparently Springfield is now GLUEING the ejectors in place on their "mil spec" guns instead of pinning them. Springfield claims to have ceased this practice but these guns keep popping up.
Not ony do you have to worry about glued in parts...Springfield uses a large number of cast components in their guns these days ( like hammer struts ) and if a production line happens to run out of standard extractors for the normal 45 cal 1911 they just toss in the 9 mil pattern extractors which causes plenty of headaches.

Save yourself the misery and buy a Colt.

www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=87d71abd54bbae0b22d145b588727e04&threadid=56716
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 1:37:30 PM EDT
Issomeone still selling those Argentine 1911's? That might be a good choice if still available.
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