[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Confession about CCW (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:34:24 AM EDT
| I looked forward to getting my permit and P3AT for a long time. Now that I've been certified for months, I've found that, for a good law abiding citizen, it is almost impossible to carry legally. On a typical trip to run errands, post office, bank, kid's school, I was breaking the no gun laws at least once a day - or unloading and stowing (which has its own danger). I have quit carrying except for about a once a month trip into some really bad areas. Anyone else have this good guy problem? |
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Plan ahead, and use a pocket holster. The pocket holster is easy to put in/take out of your pocket depending on the location. Here in AZ there is no legal requirement for the gun to be unloaded when left in the car. I can carry most places (like the bank), and those that prohibit carry, I can leave the gun loaded in my vehicle. For examples, when I have to visit a ban location like the post office, I simply park in the street outside (not their parking lot) and leave my gun in the glove box. In AZ, I can take my gun to school to collect my kids, provided I have a CCW permit and the gun is unloaded and out of sight (but in the glovebox is OK), or I can just park off campus. As for commercial locations, such as stores, posting "no guns" signs... they simply don't get my business ! If your state's carry laws are prohibitive, get to work changing them. |
| I do have an Uncle Mikes pocket holster which works great. And, yes my gun laws are very restrictive. It all kind of makes sense now. Lawmakers gave us a license to carry so that we would vote for them, but structured it in such a way that most of us (in this state) can't carry legally. |
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I'm curious - which state? Many people downplay a fanny pack for CCW. I think you'll find it much easier than a holster attached to your belt because you can put it on & take it off easily. Here in TX, for CCW purposes the school parking lot is not considered "the premises", and you can carry into a liquor store (off-site consumption), in restaurants that get less than 51% of their revenue from liquor, and pretty much any building unless there is a very specific sign displayed. |
| They dont have restrictions on having on a holster so just remove the gun from your holster and leave the holster on. Unload gun and stow when necessary or just stow. I wouldn't worry so much about having it in the car at school do you really think they are going to really stop you in the car line (or whatever) at school and search your vehicle NO. Don't let stupid laws make you stop carrying just abide by them the best you can and when in one of these areas don't shoot anybody. |
Pretty funny! I've often wondered, if a ccw person stopped a shooting in a no gun zone, who would go to jail - the ccw or bad guy? Anyway, I'm in Kansas. Don't get me wrong, I want to carry, but I have to weigh the hassle factor or the added danger I have from taking the gun in and out of my pocket several times per day. |
Never mind. There is a DeSantis product you may wish to consider: www.desantisholster.com/r72.html |
LOL at the model in that picture! He can walk the streets of San Francisco and no one even knows he's carrying.  |
Does that come in men's? |
AFAIK is only in NYC where leaving a handgun in you car is illegal. I have never seen anything in the NY State law that prohibits this.
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Even if you are stopped in your car and searched they probably wouldn't find it. About 4 years ago right after the Iraq War started I went to Miami and had to go to the Airport to pick someone up and then we were heading to the Keys. Unknown to me they were stopping every car coming around the loop road by MIA and I got pulled over with my 9mm in the car. The Officer looked in the car asked to open up the back of the SUV and looked around, saw an assload of luggage, 4 peoples worth, and said everything looks fine you can go. They didn't look in the luggage, check the car or nothing. It was the most lame car check I've ever seen. |
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I carry all day every day and I do my best to avoid places where it's actually illegal to carry, which in Arizona are school grounds, USPS, anywhere that serves alcohol on the premises and some federal buildings. I have no need to go onto school grounds, I schedule package pickups online, I avoid restaurants that serve alcohol (which in AZ is basically all of them except the fast food joints) and I avoid federal buildings the same way I avoid crack whores. There have been times when I've been out with clients and they want to stop in a place to eat lunch that serves alcohol. I try to steer them to someplace that doesn't, but it isn't always possible. Since I don't want my clients to know I carry, and since I conceal well, I simply go in, cut a low profile and don't drink. |
+1 |
I'd love to see a source for this... |
| while not actually illegal to leave the gun in the car in NY most pistol permit issuing counties provide a letter when you get your permit that it is considered "bad form" or words to that effect to do it. They often go on to state that if you leave the gun in the car unattended and it is stolen that it is grounds to get your permit revoked. |
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WRONG! The Gun Zone used to have a lenghty review of this issue, but it's ben removed pending th enew postal regulation. www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html Bottom line is the new regulation for the USPS is going to ban carry by anyone other than anLEO or other government employee who is authorized to carry a weapon. They are just a bit slow in getting the word out.
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Postal regulations don't matter, the law specifically says that you may carry a firearm in a post office for lawful purposes. You might get arrested (doubtful, local LE can't enforce that law) but the law is clear. |
This just made my short list of "all time stooooopid shit I read on the web". Please post the link to the section of federal law that spells out your position. Please don't post a general link and tell me to find it, post it yourself. If you think that your bullshit plan to avoid prosecution is workable, try it out and get back to us.
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In Missouri at least, its a NON-PUNISHABLE offense to carry where there are signs saying that you can't. They can ask you to leave, and if you do nothing happens. If you push your luck, then they may ask an officer to ask you to leave. But... if it's CONCEALED, how they gonna know? 
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Aren't Postal Regulations based on Federal Law? That one that says something like, "whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.." I suppose this vague exemption is how you are planning on avoiding prosecution, "(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." Here's my challenge to you and everyone else that thinks that carry isn't illegal. Prove it. Go get caught, and use this as your defense as court. It's also illegal to carry in a VA hospital, or the Social Security office, or the Federal building downtown, or... unless you are going to say it's ok there too for the same reason. And if so, again I challenge you to prove it using the same technique. |
No............ 
18 USC 930: § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities Release date: 2004-08-06 a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. So part of the confusion is rooted in the wording of this section. The prohibition applies to "Federal facilit(ies)" except as provide for in subsection (d). Subsection (d) provides: (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to- (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. |
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No, I'm afraid not. The issue of CCW in a Postal facility is different from other facilities governed by federal law. The USPS is not a government agency in the way that the EPA or DOT is. The USPS is required to support their operations by making a profit on their services. The mail itself is protected by federal law, and the employees of the USPS are specifically protected by federal law because of their business of delivering the mail. Here is a really good link to how CCW in a USPS facility is different, and why it's different. CCW in USPS
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Why do you make an exception for schools? In SC the penalty for CC'ing in a school is less than the penalty for CC'ing in a restaurant that serves booze. |
You do realize that the article you mentioned went on and on about Ohio law and how things not being prohibited doesn't make them legally permitted. PA has no such bullshit laws. The Federal regulations look pretty clear to me. Licensed CCW is a lawful activity and therefore exemption #3 applies. |
It was pretty clear to me. You guys do what you want and hopefully no one gets to be the test case.
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I want one of these people that goes on about how it's legal to carry in a post office to volunteer to get caught so that they can prove how right they are. Or just go turn themselves in to the Postal Police for having carried in the Post Office in the past. Put your money where your mouth is and prove you're assertations. You are willing to go on and on about how it's ok, arguing 'til you're blue in the face. Here's an easy way to end the argument forever. Just do it. |
We have a member who open carries in the post office. |
Somebody else started a thread on this -- it seems the no guns signs are going away on all post offices. Whether it's a precursor to a different firearms policy remains to be seen. |
These aren't state laws, these are federal laws that cover PA just as much as OH. So what about 39 CFR 232.1? Was this repealed or somehow irellevant?
I'm confused 
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+1. People shouldn't fear their governments. I haven't had the balls to carry my gun on my campus (policy of no concealed weapons). Does my knife count? I carry that every day everywhere. When I was at Utah University I could carry...and others did as well. Safe school. :) |
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In Missouri, a business owner/manager/employee can ask you to leave if they suspect that you are carrying a concealed handgun. If you leave, there is no problem. However, if you refuse to leave, it then becomes trespassing. When the police come out they will ticket you for trespassing and give you a warning regarding the carrying of a concealed weapon on a posted property. You get two warnings, the third time the police are called for this offense your CCW permit gets revoked. I carry everywhere except public schools, federal buildings and bars. I carry at the post office and especially when I go to the bank. If my bank ever said anything negative about it, I would close my accounts and move them to a bank that is CCW friendly. |
| Everyone keeps listing banks. I havent seen any no CCW signs on a bank yet. What is the MO law on CCWing in places listed in the law? I know the whole deal about the place of business with a sign being able to ask you to leave, but what if they catch you carrying on public school grounds? |
Can you not carry anywhere that serves alcohol? MO has the 50% rule. |