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Posted: 6/5/2003 8:42:10 PM EDT
Just ended an auction on Gunbroker and was reading the Laws concerning Handgun Shipment. It looks like we are stuck shipping with UPS overnight on any handgun..What is the deal??
Fedex will no longer ship handguns and the USPS will not ship them either. Is this just for us non-licensed dealers/traders or for the whole industry??and what is the deal with the FFL having to be signed in BLUE or RED Ink?? NO BLACK INK?? Does it say in the CFR that no gun may be shipped with out RED or BLUE ink??I also read on UPS' website that they charge nearly 4 times as much to ship a handgun as do they charge for anyother item shipped the same way!!!
Are there loop-holes or are we stuck paying one hell of an ammount to ship these Handguns??
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 5:31:08 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]

Fedex will no longer ship handguns

Untrue. I don't care what any local yokel Federal Express dirtbag says. His "policy" or "interpretation" ain't law.



Is this just for us non-licensed dealers/traders or for the whole industry??

The whole industry. The U.S. Postal Service has had handgun/firearms measures in place since 1967. They allow only dealers and limited other exceptions to ship handguns. UPS and Federal Express extended their "overnight" policy to everyone in late 1999.



and what is the deal with the FFL having to be signed in BLUE or RED Ink?? NO BLACK INK?? Does it say in the CFR that no gun may be shipped with out RED or BLUE ink??

That is an individual dealer policy. Dealers sometimes require colored ink to be sure it isn't a photocopy (though color copies make that difficult anymore). No big deal.



I also read on UPS' website that they charge nearly 4 times as much to ship a handgun as do they charge for anyother item shipped the same way!!!

You read right. My personal feeling is on a high-ticket item (and not all Title 1 firearms fall into this category), I don't want the firearm in UPS or Federal Express custody any longer than necessary.



Are there loop-holes or are we stuck paying one hell of an ammount to ship these Handguns??

The loophole is this: UPS and Federal Express do not make or enforce laws. They think they do and some their self-important assholes try to impose their own beliefs. THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING ANYONE TO DECLARE A HANDGUN AS SUCH TO A PRIVATE CONTRACT CARRIER. If asked, I simply tell those dimwits I'm shipping "machine tool parts" and I don't get specific on the recipient's name (i.e., S&W becomes SWI, Glock becomes GI USA, Inc., etc.)
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:33:45 PM EDT
thanks for the insight....I can just tell them it is a box of marbels that must be there tomorrow for the championship marbelthon?that should save me some cash...thanks
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:49:27 PM EDT

I can just tell them it is a box of marbels that must be there tomorrow for the championship marbelthon?

Do you want it sent overnight? Overnight rates cost the same, firearm or not. They go by weight, size, and distance. UPS and Federal Express behave like a bunch of shitheads if the term "firearm" is mentioned.

Simply insure it for the desired value and if asked, declare it as "machine parts," or whatever you think will placate the idiots at the counter.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:51:39 AM EDT
At lunch today sent a Glock FRAME ONLY via Fedex from VB, VA to Las Vegas, NV. Total was a little over $28.00. It was sent from a non-FFL to a FFL. They couter lady never blinked when I declared it. $28 bucks is alot to ship a 5 Oz Frame. Imagine if I shipped the slide! I'd would have had to take out a loan till payday!
FWIW, the slide and mags went to the individuals home via USPS.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:43:49 AM EDT

They couter lady never blinked when I declared it.

Sometimes the UPS and Federal Express counter people can be pretty easygoing, other times they can be royal pains in the ass. I used to get along with them just fine until one of the little pissant local managers decided guns were evil.



$28 bucks is alot to ship a 5 Oz Frame. Imagine if I shipped the slide! I'd would have had to take out a loan till payday!

Should've declared it as something else and sent it ground. I just shipped a S&W 640 to Florida and insured it for $500. Cost was $9 and some change.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:54:56 PM EDT
Hell I know about the loan stuff, I sent a large frame autoloader and it cost me 58.00 for overnight. Granted it is an extremely large handgun (an LAR Grizzly in 45 win mag)but that is crazy. The guy that bought it alloted 25.00 for shipping so now Im stuck with paying the difference. From now on im sticking to long gun shipping and i'll do the handguns local sales only.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 4:46:54 AM EDT

Hell I know about the loan stuff, I sent a large frame autoloader and it cost me 58.00 for overnight. Granted it is an extremely large handgun (an LAR Grizzly in 45 win mag)but that is crazy. The guy that bought it alloted 25.00 for shipping so now Im stuck with paying the difference. From now on im sticking to long gun shipping and i'll do the handguns local sales only.

Unless UPS or Federal Express requires you to open and inspect the package, why are you shipping overnight? Just declare it as something other than a firearm and ship it ground.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 2:06:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING ANYONE TO DECLARE A HANDGUN AS SUCH TO A PRIVATE CONTRACT CARRIER. If asked, I simply tell those dimwits I'm shipping "machine tool parts" and I don't get specific on the recipient's name (i.e., S&W becomes SWI, Glock becomes GI USA, Inc., etc.)


Wrong !!!!! From ATF Code of Fed Regs. 27 CFR : "Sec. 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped" Not only would you be breaking the law by not stating the contents but you would add a list of crimminal charges such as fraud and conspiracy.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:07:25 PM EDT

Wrong !!!!! From ATF Code of Fed Regs. 27 CFR : "Sec. 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped" Not only would you be breaking the law by not stating the contents but you would add a list of crimminal charges such as fraud and conspiracy.


No, you're wrong, jackass. Pay attention to what you posted. It is illegal to not declare a firearm if shipping to someone other than a licensee. Get your facts straight (for a change).
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:47:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
No, you're wrong, jackass. Pay attention to what you posted. It is illegal to not declare a firearm if shipping to someone other than a licensee. Get your facts straight (for a change).


No your wrong......your the one who stated there was no law to declare to a carrier. Yes you could refuse to do so if you are shipping to a licensed agent, BUT they can also refuse to ship your package. In addition, giving advice to make false statements and having a package's contents labeled as otherwise IS illegal. Not very good policy on a firearms board and I hope this is not supported by the moderators or staff. Jokers like you is why the rest of us have to suffer because you cannot play by the rules.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Fedex will no longer ship handguns

Untrue. I don't care what any local yokel Federal Express dirtbag says. His "policy" or "interpretation" ain't law.


Wrong again, from Fedex policy:
"Firearms and Ammunitions (United States)


FedEx Ground will transport firearms (excluding handguns), but ONLY between:
Licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, licensed collectors, law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency, or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by federal, state or local law from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers for the purpose of repair or customizing (and return of same).
FedEx Ground will transport small arms ammunition, when packed and labeled in compliance with federal, state and local law.
FedEx Ground will not accept for transport handguns, assembled or disassembled."
Get YOUR facts straight!!!
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 4:35:03 PM EDT
Violating UPS policy does not break any laws. UPS can rescind the contract (.ie return your merchandise), but it can not do anything else if you are caught violating its policies.

About 6 months ago I had to ship a gun back to Ruger. Here is how I handled it. I put it in a big box (square that didn't look like it would hold a gun) and wrote to: Sturm & R., Inc. on it. Then I mailed it UPS ground. No one was the wiser.

The thing is the self important anti-gun asshole might have noticed the word "RUGER" but he wouldn't have any idea what Sturm & R. was.

Hell I've had UPS deliverymen give the same advice.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 4:48:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M199:

Wrong !!!!! From ATF Code of Fed Regs. 27 CFR : "Sec. 178.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped" Not only would you be breaking the law by not stating the contents but you would add a list of crimminal charges such as fraud and conspiracy.



Here is some legal advice. LEARN TO READ. Then go back and READ that statute.

DUMBASS.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 5:04:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/7/2003 5:44:27 PM EDT by Jim_Dandy]

Wrong again, from Fedex policy:
"Firearms and Ammunitions (United States)


FedEx Ground will transport firearms (excluding handguns), but ONLY between:
Licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, licensed collectors, law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency, or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by federal, state or local law from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers for the purpose of repair or customizing (and return of same).
FedEx Ground will transport small arms ammunition, when packed and labeled in compliance with federal, state and local law.
FedEx Ground will not accept for transport handguns, assembled or disassembled."
Get YOUR facts straight!!!


Have you ever ACTUALLY sent or received ANY package? ANYTHING???? Because if you had, and could READ, you would see that FedEx GROUND does not ship handguns. As in they only ship handguns via FedEx OVERNIGHT. Duh. Is anyone getting through to your thick head? Has a light come on in your dim little brain?

I believe SouthernShark, who is an attorney by profession, just gave you some FREE legal advice. Use it and engage your brain to your typing finger in the future.


This is just for you, M199:

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