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Posted: 5/17/2003 10:41:06 AM EDT

....that many believe carrying a mouse gun is ok because it will give you time to get to a real gun.

Gun fights rarely last that long
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:36:46 PM EDT
Guilty!
As there is no CCW in Ohio AND an anti-gun policy at work, I was left no choice in a bad 'hood at night.
There was no REAL gun option, this was it.
So I admit it, but undergunned is still better than no gun at all.
I wasn't expecting any gunfights, just some possible bad 'hood related stuff, that happens all the time here.
Forgive me.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:48:29 PM EDT
... Beats me, the absolute smallest I'll carry is a Glock 27 loaded w/.40 S&W 150gr JHP Corbon

... Thats only when I feel I can't adequately hide my P14-45 loaded w/.45 Auto 230gr (+P) JHP Corbon
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:57:32 PM EDT
Aw you Florida and Arizona guys and your CCW.

Someday, we can do that too.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:08:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2003 6:09:55 PM EDT by Boss-Monkey]
I don't understand the "get to my real gun" thing either. The only reason I will carry the .32 is because it's the smallest I can carry at the time. If I'm close enough to use a knife to defend myself, a .32 to the head would be better. If someone's dog is trying to bite my leg, a .32 in the dog is better than trying to kick it away.
I agree, gunfights are usually very short.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 8:50:56 PM EDT
Mouse gun, Mouse gun, better than the I leave my 45 in the house gun.

People who say I never carry smaller than a 45 don't always carry. Or they never dress comfortably.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 9:07:09 PM EDT
because i bet my .32acp will give them something to think about other than fucking with me or mine, and it's always there.

my 2 9mm are to big to carry

will the the 3at when keltec comes out with it.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 3:29:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 3:33:20 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By SGB:

....that many believe carrying a mouse gun is ok because it will give you time to get to a real gun.



Define mouse gun. Personally the smallest caliber I will carry is a .38 or 9mm loaded with premium JHP ammo, and the .38 only as a deep concealement backup.

How long do gunfights lasts? Shootings can be very short, Gunfights can be very long. North Hollywood was 44 mimutes. We had one last 5 hours here about a month ago. Just like fist fights always result with me spending more time in the gym. Following this incident I went from training with my handguns once a month, up to twice a week.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 3:55:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

... We had one last 5 hours here about a month ago.





... WTF?
In Baghdad?
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 12:13:45 AM EDT
MY POCKET PISTOL IS A TAURUS 605C IN 357MAG YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SETTLE FOR A MOUSE PISTOL! 95% OF TIME WITH FULL SIZE COLT ALL YOU NEED IS A GOOD HOLSTER THE REST JUST JUST NEED TO THINK HOW MUCH THE VALUE THERE LIFE OVER THERE COMFORT OFF THE SOUP BOX WITH ME
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dave1974:
MY POCKET PISTOL IS A TAURUS 605C IN 357MAG YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SETTLE FOR A MOUSE PISTOL! 95% OF TIME WITH FULL SIZE COLT ALL YOU NEED IS A GOOD HOLSTER THE REST JUST JUST NEED TO THINK HOW MUCH THE VALUE THERE LIFE OVER THERE COMFORT OFF THE SOUP BOX WITH ME



I have been carrying concealed for 7+ years. (when did Texas get CCW? I was in the January class, but I don't recall the year)

Anywho...

I know that there are times when I can dress properly, for the climate, and conceal every damn gun I own. 7 handguns at once, just to prove it could be done.

At other times, even a .380 is difficult to conceal.

Texas is hot, humid and sunny. It is not always possible to dress professionally, and carry a fullsized pistol concealed.

In the Texas sunshine you either remove a jacket, or you melt in the sun.

Standing outside in the Texas sunshine is hazardous to your health. Everyone but you removes thier jacket or sportcoat and you look like an idiot sweating like a whore in church.

"Oh, but it is better to sweat than be underarmed!"

I'll tell you about sweat and underarms, my friend.

Dress appropriately, conceal appropriately.

Inside the waistband? Right, keep wiping that salty sweat off that gun.

TRG
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 10:59:23 PM EDT
When I managed FRPC all times of the year, we were able to carry openly and concealed. I wore a G36 in a Bianchi professional at the small of my back. I got the G36 because it wouldn't rust, was fairly light, and packed a punch. Whether it was shorts and a shirt or nylon exercise pants and a t-shirt, going up to the range in 90-100+ degree weather was no fun. I beared it for the most part. Carrying openly with a good belt and a good Galco holster, I had no problem with carrying my 1911 or G17.

I would rather have a .32 or .22 with decent rounds that I have practiced alot with, than have nothing at all. If someone wants to take me wife's purse, they have to take 8 rds of .32 to the face, or 10 rds of high velocity .22
Don't know about you, but I don't want anyone planting a .22 in my neck and pulling the trigger.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 5:05:35 PM EDT
I make my living wearing a suit. There is no way to hide even an Officer-size 1911, Glock 27
or anything except the baby Kahr 9mm or the .380 Pony. A double tap .380 Hydroshock is not insignificant, no matter what the 45ACP crowd thinks.Give us mouse gunners a break.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 5:17:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2003 5:20:17 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Actually VISUALIZE scenarios in which you are fighting for your life with a low capacity, small caliber pocket gun.

You're life and the lives of your loved ones are worth more than the inconvenience of lugging a REAL gun.

No gunfight survivor ever said afterward, "Gee, I wish I had been carrying a Kel-Tec .32"
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:47:31 PM EDT
I do carry 95% of the time the other 5% being sleep. summer in phoenix winter in flaggstaff and everywhere in between a fullsize 45 has been with me . IWB in summer OWB ALL OTHER Ihave been shot at no pistol is enough to make me happy but a 45 beats a 32 any day All you need is a good holster I have carried IWB of a pair of shorts and a untucked t-shirt at the lake in comfort and was never made once by my very anti gun in- laws all weekend .swim suit or sport coat all you need is AGOOD QUALITY HOLSTER AND BELT.sorry about the spelling I went to ranger school instead of college
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:53:14 AM EDT
Lumpy196 - I agree with you in theory, but let's change your last sentence a tiny bit, how many people murdered, robbed, raped, or watched someone near them have one of the above happen have thought, either during or after the event, "Gee, I wish I had been carrying a Kel-Tec .32." There is a definite place for guns that you can carry when you "can't carry a gun."

Yeah, a Glock 21 on the hip beats a Kel-Tec .32 on the hip no doubt, but a Kel-Tec .32 on the hip beats a Glock 21 in the car or on the nightstand at home, when the SHTF.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:22:29 AM EDT
I proved to my buddy this past weekend why my PT22 is better than my 9mm....10 rounds in the size of a quarter or 10 rounds in the chest area.......give me accuracy.....
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:25:17 AM EDT
That's not what I believe at all.

I will carry my .380 because it's small, light, and will be comfortable to conceal. This will lead to me carrying it more frequently than I would carry a larger handgun.

It's better to have SOMETHING on you, than leave your .45 or .40 or whatever, at home.

Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:54:10 AM EDT
I carry a Kel-Tec P32 as a back up to my primary gun or when I can't carry anything else. That little .32 in my pocket has met with criticism from many men with .45s out in the truck.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:07:14 AM EDT
I think it's mostly psychological. If you can't conceal a large handgun easily, then in peoples' minds, some gun is better than no gun.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:43:05 AM EDT
Lazyshooter - Unless I'm misreading what you wrote, are you saying that some gun ISN'T always better than no gun in some peoples' minds?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:58:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:
Lumpy196 - I agree with you in theory, but let's change your last sentence a tiny bit, how many people murdered, robbed, raped, or watched someone near them have one of the above happen have thought, either during or after the event, "Gee, I wish I had been carrying a Kel-Tec .32." There is a definite place for guns that you can carry when you "can't carry a gun."

Yeah, a Glock 21 on the hip beats a Kel-Tec .32 on the hip no doubt, but a Kel-Tec .32 on the hip beats a Glock 21 in the car or on the nightstand at home, when the SHTF.



I don't think any man armed with a compact handgun of sufficient caliber, capacity and ergonomics to allow good hit potential is under-armed. Id feel perfectly safe with something along the lines of a Kahr P9. Its light, concealable and eminently shootable. Same goes with other guns like the HK P7M8, S&W 3913, or Colt Officers style guns.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:01:38 PM EDT
Respectfully, I don't buy the visualize idea. If you are expecting a gunfight (a)you know you want a lot more than a pistol and (b)the criteria you apply to what pistol you carry really do not apply to the rest of us that just want the gun for the one in ten thousand chance event. For us concealability may very well be as important as firepower.Small 9's by Kahr and small .380s like the Colt Pony or Mustang make a lot of sense. Besides, didn't European police carry .380s?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:20:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 4:25:51 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
If you feel comfortible taking on with a .380 the following:

a. people on "artificial stimulants"
b. mentally unstable people
c. more than one bad guy

Far be it from me to stop you.

Im a hell of a lot more committed to living. So, I'll keep lugging my .45, 2 spare mags and a .38 backup.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dave1974:
I do carry 95% of the time the other 5% being sleep. summer in phoenix winter in flaggstaff and everywhere in between a fullsize 45 has been with me . IWB in summer OWB ALL OTHER Ihave been shot at no pistol is enough to make me happy but a 45 beats a 32 any day All you need is a good holster I have carried IWB of a pair of shorts and a untucked t-shirt at the lake in comfort and was never made once by my very anti gun in- laws all weekend .swim suit or sport coat all you need is AGOOD QUALITY HOLSTER AND BELT.sorry about the spelling I went to ranger school instead of college



You only sleep 1.2 hours a night..?
You need more sleep.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:58:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BMANSAR15:
Lazyshooter - Unless I'm misreading what you wrote, are you saying that some gun ISN'T always better than no gun in some peoples' minds?



I guess that didn't come out right. People seem to (rightly) believe that a small handgun in the pocket is better than the large handgun left at home or in the vehicle. Everybody would like to carry their favorite full-size handgun, but for most people, at least in the spring, summer, and fall, (when little cover clothing is worn), that's just not an option.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:29:59 PM EDT
lumpy. 10-4 on the want to live .some people talk about carrying a 8 or 10 pound tricked out rifle in the field but cant deal with a extra 1 pound on there hip on the street. yes you can put all 10 of your 22s into the ten ring fast under no stress with good light at the range but at 0-dark 30 in the parking lot you may only get one. with 230grains thats all I need.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:18:04 PM EDT
"Im a hell of a lot more committed to living. So, I'll keep lugging my .45, 2 spare mags and a .38 backup."

Unless you are a policeman, carrying around that much armament all the time might make an anti-gun prosecutor's job of proving premeditation too easy for my taste. In any case, the answer to the original question on this forum has been given by many people here a number of times. We would all carry the full size 1911 if we could but given the constraints of work clothing etc. the biggest gun we can carry is often a pocket gun in a subcaliber. Better that than nothing.
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