Posted: 6/4/2007 8:17:11 AM EDT
| What are ya all running for .38spl. in your snubby's ? Got re aquainted w/ my 649 (older 38spl.) . I forgot just how weel she rides & conceals vs. my G36. Anyway she's stoked w/ some hydrashocks of unknown age & weight. Thanks for any input. |
SW442 I like the Fed. or Speer HP's 38spl. but I find the SWC's pretty accurate too.
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wadcutters are for shooting paper. i use Corbon DPX 110gr +P or Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P in my S&W 642... i really got to like the DPX rounds in my Kimber (45) and Glocks (9mm/357 sig)... the gold dots are a pretty tried and true round as well... both are manageable and group well... the DPX's are a little faster... chrono data i found for my 642 (1 7/8" bbl) is about 944 fps for the DPX, 865 fps for the gold dot, which puts them at 219 ft/lbs and 225 ft/lbs of muzzle energy respectively... |
May I suggest you go to tacticalforums and search the terminal effects forum using the key phrase ".38 BUG"? This will show you the viability of the wadcutter for defense. While the 135 Gold Dot may be a more optimum choice for you, in my case, I share the the S&W 642 with my wife and recoil is a very real concern. The wadcutters make the 642 comfortable for her to shoot. And as we all know confidence in hitting the target with a gun is more important than wasted shots. |
In my own Redneck testing I've found both the Speer 135gr GD load and the Corbon DPX 110gr load to penetrate about the same, the GD goes a little deeper but the DPX opens up more to around .6 of an inch. Buffalo Bore has some 158gr LSWC HP's that clock a true 1000FPS from the Snubby barrels. But I've found these to always clog the HP and not expand at all. They do penetrate like crazy though. Most important thing in a revolver SD load is make sure that the loads don't let the bullet pull out of the case and bind the cylinder under recoil! I usually carry three of the Speer 135 GD's first in the cylinder and two of the Buffalo bore 158's. I figure if after three I still need more then I want to have maximum penetration.
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Just an FYI A friend of mine (NYPD) was off duty and some guy tried to rob him with a knife. My buddy jumped back and pulled out his S&W 36 2" loaded with Federal 158 SWC standard pressure (this was over 20 yrs ago) and fired 2 shots at the perp. Perp was wearing several layers of clothing including a heavy leather jacket. Only one shot hit but it hit the perp dead center in the torso right at the sternum. Upon being shot the perp ran away (fast ) and was later apprehended at a local hospital. THe round penetrated through the jacket and clothing , through the skin and then shattered and lodged into the sternum. The only reason I'm posting this is to re-affirm how important it is that the round you carry in your gun be able to pentrate deeply enough to get to vital areas and that sometimes means it has to get through intermediate oblects such as clothing, heavy jackets , glass and even an arm. Everything worked out ok in this situation but it could have been different. You cannot measure the level of determination of a perpetrator. In this case it was'nt much but..... stay safe |
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I've done the water jug test, and althought the water jug test initiates expansion more rapidly than tissue, most of the rounds I fired out of my snub didn't even expand. Firing at 5 yds they just ran through 4-5 jugs IIRC, and not a nanometer of expansion. Some penetrated the wood plank I set behind the jugs. I'm not worried about 38 snub rounds not penetrating, its the expansion I need to happen as well. Only round I found to expand even slightly was the Magtech Guardian Gold. It didn't really do much, just bent a petal back. I've read some good things and saw some online tests of the Speer GD 135 snub round. Can't wait to try it out on the jugs. Just to get a comparative test against the others in my experiment. I'll try to find my data on the rounds I tried, but I know they were all common defenseive + p rounds at the time (2003). |
| Here is some technical data (including penetration tests) from Speer: Linky |
No, the Corbon DPX expands just fine. In fact I haven't found a media or caliber that the Copper bullets won't expand into. They really are amazing but they ain't cheap. |
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Thanks for the responses OP got back to me, he has tested some loads I had over looked www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm |
Have you tried the 110 grain Winchester Silvertips? I've shot them into water jugs several times out of my model 38 and had an expansion each time. The question is do they give enough penetration. Where I live I don't have to worry about multiple layers of heavy clothing. |
From the BOT : Four jugs ( gallon ) is considered the optimum minimum penetration since it equals about 12 inches of BG penetration. So am I correct in thinking that ballistic gelatin is inch per inch eaqual for per said BG medium ? BTW Nice job on the testing |
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More like 1.6-2 inches of water for every 1 inch of callibrated gel. Water testing still doent give the results gel does, because water makes a decent JHP expand no matter what. Still, its better than nothing. I prefer to use a Fackler Water Bag Box. Simply make a 3-sided box or "trough", and fill up a shitload of ziploc bags. Sure its messier than and less convinient than jugs, but its cheaper, and allows for LOTS of testing in a day. |
I'm no expert, but from what I've read, water is pretty useless as a testing medium for a bullets performance in flesh. |
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Water isnt useless, but it isnt as good as ballistic gelatin. It is better than nothing. According to Drs Fackler and Roberts, the gel to water ratio is 1 to 1.6-2 inches. Thats for every one inch of penetration in gel, you get somewhere between 1.6-2 inches penetration in water. Keep in mind, the plastic jugs often make testing with water difficult. Thry ten to play hell on the actual performance of the bullet. Milk cartons and ziploc bags are better. |