Posted: 3/17/2007 11:26:53 PM EDT
|
Im buying a small pistol for my wife. She wants a .22 pistol (for aesthetic reasons mostlly) but Im not complaining cause she loves guns and shooting them and its about time i got her her own. Ive never shot a .25ACP pistol or a .22LR for that matter. Im not trying to sound like a dickhead or anything but 9mm is the smallest thing Ive ever messed with. So ive noticed in the models im looking at theres an 8+1 22LR or a 9+1 .25ACP. I'm assuming that since the .25 is bigger its more powerful, but then why does it hold more rounds? Is the .22LR actually better? Am I missing something? Any knowledge or thoughts you have on these calibers would be greatlly appreciated. Thanks. |
|
Here are some ballistic tables to show you how much energy each round has: Ballistic tables Take into account that many of these .22 Long Rifle bullet tables are for rifle only; they'll give different results from the .25 caliber bullet tables, which are for pistol only. ETA for handgun tables only: .25 handgun tables: .22 High Velocity handgun tables: The HIGHEST .25 muzzle velocity is 103 ft. lbs; the LOWEST of the .22 Rimfire muzzle energies is 125 ft. lbs. |
| Okay well looking at the chart the .22LR is calculated at 100yds and the .25ACP is at 30 yrds. or in the energy catagory its 50yrds vs. 100 yrds. Either way if you do the math with standard type ammo the .25 is more powerful for pistols with short barrels? Yes? No? |
Yes and no. I suppose it would depend on whos 22 or 25 we're talking about. As a rule, auto pistols (and rifles for that matter) are more reliable when rimless cartridges are used. The 22 is rimmed the 25 is not. The 22 rim also has rounded, soft edges while the 25 has sharper, harder edges. This feature also helps in more positive extraction. |
You might look at the Kel-Tec P32 (.32 cal) or the P3AT (.380). They are as small as most 25's and pack a little more punch. My wife has the P32 (she had a little trouble racking the slide on the P3AT). |
+1 for this. but, choosing between the 22LR or 25, I'd take 22LR in a heartbeat. I personally know a man who was shot in the chest 7 times with a 25, NONE of the bullets even broke the skin. (he was wearing a leather vest...biker dude  )
|
+1 the .25acp is notorious for being one of the MOST underpowered "stopping" rnds....even more so than a .22lr while "shot placement is everything" it wont mean s*** half the time unless it penetrates and tears vital organs up... personally, the smallest i'd consider is .380acp...and even then, i'd look into a 9mm energy is NOT the determining factor in deciding "stopping power", and i'd have to say "NO" to .25acp my .02 |
|
Your post is somewhat unclear to me. Does she want the gun just to have a "cute" gun to shoot or does she want a small carry gun? If she wants a tiny carry gun continue on but try to move her up into a 32 or .380. If this is to be a shooter try to get a much larger gun. At any rate encorage her by getting her whatever she wants but give her the information that the mini guns are a real handfull and difficult to hit well with because of small grip sizes and small to nothing in the way of sights' Consider an airweight S&W 642 38sp revolver. They are fairly cheep,available on the used market. They are a dream to shoot with mild target 38 loads or light reloads (even the pussycat 38 loads blow the .22,25,and 32 loads away power wise) They hav tiny little sights but still way better than most sights on the mini semis.The grips are not large but again lots better than the grips on most any tini semi and aftermarket (houge ect) stuff is out there. The snubby airweights are not target guns but most anyone finds them much easier to shoot well and more pleasant to boot than any of the tini guns. Any gun out there can only hope to be as reliable as a revolver and there is a lot to be said for a carry gun that can checked simply checked for load status (swing the cylinder out and it is instantly clear if the gun is loaded or loaded. My final suggestion is to try and make available to your wife these guns to actually shoot before she makes her decision . borrow them from someone,go to a rental range whatever |
It is said that John Browning invented the .25 caliber (in 1906) because he was not able to get the .22 LR to work reliably in a small pocket sized pistol. To this day, the .22LR is not as reliable in these tiny guns as the .25...but...it is much more affordable to shoot and is probably a somewhat better defense cartridge since it is available in so many different configurations nowdays. Neither is really "good" but may be better than a harsh word and a stern look. For plinking or target shooting, the .22 is the only way to go. For defense use look at something bigger...the KelTecs or, better, a .38 snub lightweight. |
|
FWIW: Well, I'm 64. My first pistol was a Galesi 25cal. POS I've heard for decades that the rimfires are by the nature of design not as reliable as centerfires and have no doubt that's true. But that hasn't been my personal experience. I've had lots of 22cal rifles, pistols and revolvers over the 50+ years of firearms ownership (got my first 22cal single shot rifle for my 12th birthday)and for whatever reason I just haven't had misfire issues with quality 22cal ammo. Never. I think if my bride of almost 40 years got tired of her old Colt Cobra (38cal) because of age related problems (hand strength, etc.) I would buy her a Beretta Bobcat (I might have the model wrong). Actually I hate Beretta Customer NON-Service, but I will be the first to admit most Beretta firearms are excellent. Anyway, I would buy her the little Beretta "whateveritiscalled" 22cal "tip-up" barrel in 22cal. This little pistol has been around for a long time, and has an excellent reputation, from what I've read. Crimson Trace has just released a set of their fine Lasergrips for this pistols, and I would put a set on, add whatever number of CCI-Stingers would fit in the Berettas mag, and obviously one in the tube, and be good to go. I would never choose a 22cal firearm as a first choice for personal defense, but hey, when circumstances dictate compromise you just do the best you can. I honestly feel the little Beretta, especially Lasergrip equipped, and loaded to the brim with quality CCI-Stingers would do quite well for cc. It's small, it would be very accurate w/CT's, and I've got news for you, the 22cal lr "Stinger" is a pretty potent little round. I don't have one myself, don't plan on getting one... But from what I've read over the years, and the few I've actually seen at the range it's the best choice once you decide a 22cal is what you must settle for. Hey, add it up: Small, light, tip-up barrel, very concealable, Lasergrip available, low recoil, quick followup and ammo cheap enough, (and available everywhere) to practice, practice, practice until you get the little ladies confidence up, and she's good to go... his Just another option. Best Wishes, J. Pomeroy P.S. Actually, here's the old POS as we speak. (Yep, I've still got it)http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_5833.jpg |
| Thanks for all your responces. To clarify it would be more of a plinking gun than a self defense gun. We go to the range a bit and it looks like we are going to start going more often, so it'd be for that. She wont be carrying it, and we have other things to use for home defense. However, that being said I still want to gun to be reliable and not a total waste of money...if that makes sense. So I think Im getting the general idea, any other thoughts would be appreciated, but this has really helped me learn more about these thigns so far. |
In this case I'd have to go with 22 hands down. A Ruger or Buckmark would be a great, reliable and economic shooter. Around here 25ACP is the same price as 45ACP and 357Mag. |
|
http://www.naaminis.com/naaveloc.html North American Arms' website has some good velocity date for a large variety of 22lr out of there short barrel 22lr pocket revolvers. It does not look good. Out of the 1 5/8 inch barrel even CCI's Velocitor is only producing ~60ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Many other 22lr were far less than that. |
|
For plinking mostly here is the bottom line 25acp=$9 a box of 50 (when you can find it) .22lr= $2 a box of 50 for really good stuff or $9 a box of 500 for bulk 22lr is THE definition of plinking. How is the heck can you not have a 22 pistol? Its not natural Get a decent shooter with decent sights to shoot now and get a cute mini gun later for for s***s and giggles. Look at the standard size semi autos-Ruger,browning buckmark,S&W are good places to start looking |
|
i would opt for the 22LR. COST for ammo being the major factor. you should price out the ammo. also, IF youre shooting at someone at 100 yards, youd better have a good reason. BTW. i wouldnt be using a 22 or 25 any further then 12 feet for PD. i would consider it more of a last defence holdout too. If you want a good somewhat small 22 for PD, look at the Beretta model 87. i have one and it will fire as fast as you pull the trigger. Or look at the Walther TPH too. it hasnt failed yet either. there are good little 22s out there, you just have to look. |
LASERLIPS -  I looked at the picture closely and it doesn't look like a joke.....but is your CCW license for Georgia actually called a "Pistol Toter's License"?!? That's hilarious and terrific all at the same time....it's stuff like that that makes me love The South. heheBack on topic, between the 2 choices I'd get the .22 cal. She can shoot it more, I've got a Beretta Tomcat .22 with the tip-up barrel and it's fun and easy to shoot. The tip-up makes it easy to load (in fact I bought my wife the Beretta Bobcat in .32 auto for that very reason). If it's for personal defense at home (bedside table, etc) I'd probably steer you towards a S&W model 10 or similar in .38 Special. If it's for CCW I'd get a small .22 like the Tomcat. Personally I'd stay away from .25 autos but that's just me. |