Posted: 4/12/2003 9:15:36 PM EDT
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Damn dog wouldnt shut up which is about normal. Then heard a noise outside. Jumped up grabbed the .40 S&W and headed to back door. What do I see? I male out side trying to get the dogs to come to him. At first I thought it was out next door neighbor but ended up being a drunk guy. Gave me the funger and started heading towards me. Not in a threating mannor just walking. So I closed the door and locked it, but still had the .40 aimed center mass (damn tactical light on it came in handy ) Woke my roomamte up and had her call 911. after all said and done ended up being a neighbor a few houses down was drunk off his friggin ass and thougyht my house was his. And im happy with the way i handled the situation. No panic or anything, but was ready to double tap his ass if he entered my house. So needles to say, im awake. Now maybe the neighbors will keep the music down now they know im armed. Me likes my S&W SW99 with Tac light. :D |
Let me get this straight. He thought it was his house, and tried to get "your" dogs to come to him, apparently thinking they were "his" dogs, barking in "his" yard. Do "his" dogs look like "your" dogs? Does he even have dogs? Maybe he went out drinking and was surprised to find some dogs in "his" yard that weren't there when he left. I'll bet he was really surprised to see a guy in "his" house pointing a gun at him. Maybe that's why he gave you the "funger"... Oooooookay. 
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| You all can call BS all you want. I know what happned as I was there. And so I spelled Finger wuth a "u". Also, I never said I was in fear of my life, If you will reread I said "started heading towards me. Not in a threating mannor just walking." And from what his roomamte said, yes he thought he was in at HIS house. And yes they DO have dogs as well. |
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| OK this is a long post but i got something simalar....It was a sunday even. and my lady was fixing some chili...I chopped up some veggies for her and sat down to clean my carry piece(Sig p245)...Half way through and she figures out she doesnt have enuff tomato sauce.So like a good man i go to the local food lion and get some,Without my pistol,..As im coming out theres a VERY drunk and VERY large guy kickin the Sh*t outta a newspaper machine,He sees me notice him and says "You F**King want some of this?"...Well...Im kinda of an smarta** sometimes so it just kinda pops out.."What you or the paper machine?" i say.He looked at me kinda weird and walks over to his car parked in the pickup lane.I figure hes leaveing but instead he grabs a chopped off axe handle and charges me.! So i do the only thing i can right? I sent a 80mph fastball of 15oz tomato sauce can at him! Hit him square between the eyes(luck) and knocks his ass out cold! Spent 1 1/2 hours with the police and pissed my lady off some kinda good...But now i think i was lucky because if i hadnt been cleaning my pistol i'd been carrying it...Im sure i would have been justified in the end but am gald it didnt come to that even if he was drunk and an asshole......................UNDERDOG |
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Zardox:::: I amed my weapon beacause at first I wasnt sure what was going on. And I kepped my gun aimed even though I wasnt in fear of my life at the time, but was more than ready in case he tried something. Maybe I shouldnt have but ya know, thats why I got the gun. For home defense. And it did its job in a way. As far as accidents go, yes it's possible as anything is. But I am well versed in the use of a firearm as I grew up around them, not like I had an itchy trigger finger. My finger wasnt even on the trigger. I felt I handled it right and that makes ME feel good. How would you have handled it? Just curious as different people handle things differently. Also this was the first time something like this has ever happned to me, so goes with the having to point a gun at someone. So I think I handled it right. |
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fieroloki did alright. He also lives in TX which is a little more lax (or civilized depending on your point of view ) when it comes to shooting assholes. While NONE of us were actually THERE except Fieroloki and I'm sure every detail can't be placed in a post, I would not try to second guess the situation. A couple thoughts come to mind though: A man can move somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-14 ft per second. Most people can't get a shot off from low ready in less that 0.75 seconds. So anyone closer than 8-10 feet with a knife/axe/bat/etc is going to get to you. This kind of changes the fact when someone is 'walking toward you in a NONTHREATENING manner'. Also, would a sane, wanting no trouble kind of person advance on someone with a gun? Going inside, locking the door and calling the Police was a smart move. What's outside that is either worth your life or the hassle that WILL COME if you shoot someone? This point was raised to me by Benny Cooley (a bad DOE/3-gun champ that should be on the top of your 'dont fuck with list') While we all play or have played, 'Brave and mighty alpha male.' Unless there is something/someone downstairs/outside/upstairs/wherever worth your life or a HUGH hassle to defend, DONT PLAY GAMES - ITS NOT WORTH IT. Just my 0.02 |
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Since your roommate was asleep (and your comment of 'im awake', TacLight), I assume it was after dark, he was on your property without permission, he approached you, after apparently trying to subdue your dogs(s)? You aimed center mass and locked the door. You establish voice contact with the roommate and directed her to call 911 while you maintained visual contact and a center mass hold on the threat? You rock man! Nice job! TRG ps. Pics of the roommate? 
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| Im glad some feel I did the right thing, and to those who didnt please give some more details on how to handle the situation in the future if this happens agian, as I will say this agian, this was the FIRST time this has ever happned to me. And TheRedGoat, no pics and well, you prolly dont wanna see em. ;) Ill put it this way, I havnt and WONT try any moves on her. LOL!!! |
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Since you asked. Being on the ready was the right thing to do. Pointing your weapon without being in eminent danger could have landed your ass in jail even in Texas where I lived for 10 years and had quite a few run ins. Next time consider putting your gun in your belt and very visible. If you pull, pull the trigger, and call the morgue. "I feared for my life, see the knife in his hand." Having a gun in your hand in any senario is very dangerous. Say this guy has been harrasing others and the cops show up, guess who gets shot. What if the drunk was a cop. You can go on and on. Otherwise for a first time or so, you did quite well for no one got hurt. I wouldn't believe the assholes story though. Big-Bear has one really good point or two or three. |
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I hope im not being called an asshole for sharing my experiance. As I dont think I have come off as one for just sharing what happned. So if that was directed towards me, keep your comments to yourself since you were NOT there. And as far as what BIg_Bear stated, thats what happned weather anyone wants to belive me or not. And I garuntee, if I see someone else in my back yard at night thats not supposed to be there and I dont know who they are I plan on doing the same thing. Ill take some of the advice and not keep the gun pointed at all times but thats the reason I got the gun, and it will continue do what I got it for.
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Well, I still say you did a remarkably fine job of controlling the situation. You can point a gun at someone in Texas, if you think that you might be subjected to imminent harm. Your pucker factor might be lower than BigBears or TomJefferson, but I think you did very well to keep that gun at high ready. Even a drunk can close that distance faster than you can pull a pistol (tugged into your waistband?!?) and respond with aimed fire. TRG |
Sorry if you considered what I said a put down for it wasn't meant in that manner. In your earlier posts, you said he approached in a non theatening manner and asked what we would have done differently. I simply replied as I would have and have been trained to react to the situation. Of course, it is you that has to determine the level of threat but regardless of the advice given here, to shoot someone not carrying a weapon is against the law and if you pull a gun you had best be prepared to shoot the gun. I knew a guy who pulled one once and did not fire. The assailant took the gun and shot my the guy and got off without conviction cause the first party pulled the gun first. Some people take offense at having a gun pointed at them and if drunk act irrational. The asshole referred to in my post to not believe is the guy who was drunk and wondered into your yard. NOT YOU, you're just a little emotional.  Just kidding!I repeat again, you did just fine! Edit: By the way, if you read Big_Bears thread again his BS flag is up for the Drunks comment about thinking it was his house not at your story. |
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You did right. Your gun is a weapon of defense. You didn't need to shoot him. Great!! Having him look down the barrel of a .40 is much more persuasive than having it available. He was trespassing. You done right. Arm chairing isn't fair. Giving good advice for the next time is acceptable. Here's mine: You put a secure barrier between you and the criminal. Good start. Next time....look out the window and don't open the door if it is an option....then there is no issue with your gun. Stay safe. |
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I have a bit of trouble with the statement that shooting someone, "not carrying a weapon is against the law." In TN, I believe you can shoot and kill someone if they are in the act of arsen (no weapon there). But let's play a game: Let's say you just watched someone finish beating your wife/girlfriend/kid/someone's head into mush by pounding their head into concrete. You are in the parking lot of Kmart. You order them to stop. They say, "Fuck you" give you the 'funger' and start in your direction. A. You have just watched them kill or seriously injure a person, possibly a loved one. B. Now he appears to want of piece of you. Do you feel threatend? Are you going to follow handgun control's instructions and try to run away or not resist? Are you going to shoot him? Are you going to go to jail if you do? (not really a fair question because going to jail may not be based solely on the fact that your actions were justified) A few points, I. Anyone can be a weapon. II. "Threat" is a personal thing - While a 5'10" man might not be a "threat" to me he would be to my 5'1", 103 pound wife. (Dont even ask for pics) III. Having your weapon out in some position to react is faster than in your holster. I am a IDPA 4 gun Master. I can accurately fire a shot from low or high ready in about 0.5 seconds and hit a target 7 yards away all day long. If the Bad ass in question moves at 12 feet per second and is 10 feet away, I will shoot him before he can reach me (shoot does not mean kill, but I will get at least one round off before he can touch me) I can draw and hit a 7 yard target in the A-zone in the 0.9 to 1.1 second range from the holster. In our game, the Bad guy can get to me just as I'm firing or before I fire. Note, most people do not have my level of training or skills with a handgun. Read, they probably aint that fast. IF you MUST go out/down/up have your weapon ready - its faster! KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. Unless you practice with your pistol in your waist band/pants, don't put it there when you might actually need it. If you are worried that, "having a gun in your hand is dangerous in any scenario." Don't have a gun. Life is Dangerous. We are all going to go sometime. If it happens you go trying to take out a shit head that may rape/kill/whatever someone in my house next, I will toast you as a brave and good man. Personally, I'd rather go out trying to take a few of these guys down than by some drunk driver on my way home from work. So lets try this again for fieroloki: You hear a noise. Look out the window. See a bad guy. Get your blaster. Call the Police. Shoot the bad guy if he comes in your house. If there is nothing outside worth your life, stay inside. Don't go out and play John Wayne. Especially if you have little or no training in CQB, disarming, and grappling -- Some asshole might get lucky. If you have little or no training, GET SOME. This will save you better than that third/forth pistol your thinking you NEED in case the SHTF... Just my 0.02 worth.. |
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Thanx for the clarification as well TomJefferson. ;) BUt I dont think its agianst the law to point a gun at someone who is trespassing and trying to get into my house. And for one had he entered my home after I locked the door I could have shot himand been in the right as by then I would have been a bit scared as he would have had to break the glass and reach in to unlock the door. As the cops knew I was armed and all that mattered was that it was put away when they got there. And anywho, back to the whole gun thing, it was either that or one of my swords. :D |
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Hey, I got it. Tom Jefferson is a cowboy. He doesn't point a gun unless he shoots it and relys on the old quick draw. LOL Have to agree with a couple of the guys here. In side your house with a gun in your hand fine. Outside in the dark with a gun in your hand, not wise. Too many people out there that would shoot you just cause you got a gun. "He's got a gun..........bam!" |
Sorry, you are wrong on this point. For men your assumption might seem reasonable, but what about women? How many women are strangled each year? Beaten to death? No, fear for your life has nothing to do with an assailant having a weapon. IMHO, FieroLoki handled the situation perfectly. |
I took my ccw class last October in Texas, & was told at the time, in Texas after dark, you have the legal right to shoot someone steeling something from your property. I would guess you caught him trying to steel your pooches. I understood T.J. & BigBears accusations of who the ahole was 1st time I read it. Take some chill pills, & calm down a bit. The people here are not looking to crap on you, or anyone else to my knowledge, except maybe trolls, like your drunk neighbor, who was lucky not to get a new butthole right between the eye's. Thanks to your assessment of the threat. I'd say you did good. |
Yo uare correct, to a point. However, keep in mind that a 'reasonable person' must act in the same manner for it to be justified. Reasonable and necessary is the key. Also, if they are stealing something, consider the value of the object, if it is NOT worth the loss of your job, house, personal freedom, then think twcie about using a firearm to prevent the theft. You will be charged with murder, your gun will be taken, you will go to jail, you will pay for an attorney, you will miss work and potentially lose your job, house and career. Think about the consequences before choosing the 'get out of jail free because it is nighttime in Texas' clause. Protecting life is justified, protecting property is justified, preventing imminent harm is justified, just make sure you can afford the price you will pay for protecting the property. TRG |
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FieroLoki was justified in his armed investigation of a trespassing person on his property at night. He was likewise smart enough to recognize the appropriate application of force, i.e. his armed presence and his move away from the irrational person to behind the locked door. Here in Texas at night on his own property, if the irrational person had continued to approach in a threatening manner he would not have been criminally cited for use of deadly force- as long as he "feared for his life." In FieroLoki's scenario (had he applied deadly force) the wounded trespasser, his family, or his next of kin might successfully win a civil suit. Obviously FieroLoki did the right thing, and maybe his neighbor will be more careful.... |
Lets see.....Start with the the Heading of the post
Then add this little tidbit
He's stated that he was not fearful, but his heading is that he almost shot someone.....Hmmmmm I'll stick to my original ..... YMMV |
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SGB, FieroLoki behaved well. I know you are attempting to tell FieroLoki that his having "almost shot someone" was not warranted in the situation he described, but you are relying on semantics, not facts to dispute his behavior. FieroLoki did not shoot, thus he knows that deadly force wasn't warranted. Facts speak louder than semantics, i.e. words. The fact is that armed intervention on one's property (especially at night) is totally legal. FieroLoki's irrational neighbor went home with a little wakeup call that ought to help sober him up; it was the drunk's fault that his life was less safe that night. A law abiding, cautious person cannot automatically tell a drunk dog molester from a drunk rapist or murderer, either way FieroLoki helped his neighbor find his way home. My guess is that FieroLoki isn't a Lawyer, so whatever semantic argument you have with his post is irrelevant. As a Texan his imprecise use of the English language is his birthright. In your post, SGB, you seem to think that fieroloki's apparent inability to admit fear for his life makes his use of force indefensible, but I think a person of ordinary sense and understanding would agree that an irrational trespasser is a person worthy of an armed meet and greet. I would have investigated a similar incident, and I certainly would have been armed. Maybe I wouldn't have been tactically aimed in, but I would be at a low ready. I might also have brought my AR, not a pistol. Too many living felons unnecessary saved by pistols brought to rifle situations. The trespasser probably wouldn't flip the bird to a cop; that is because a cop is obviously not a person to screw with. Likewise a lawbreaker isn't likely to make obscene gestures if he knows that a homeowner is armed; this is safer for both the lawbreaker and the homeowner. I have way too much time on my hands tonight.., sorry about the long post. |
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I had no issues with the "Almost shot someone" comment for everttime I've confronted a bad guy with a gun in my pocession I feel the same way. Texas shooting story: Buddy of mine goes the a football game with his wife. After the game they get in their car and are surrounded by three gang members with knives and a ball bat. "Give me your wallet." My buddy gives him the wallet. "Give me the purse." My buddy gives him the purse. The ball bat is slammed on the hood of the car. "Give me the white woman." My buddy pulls out his .357 and blows the asshole away. To me this is a cut and dry justified shooting, however my buddy still went to jail, still posted bond which you don't get back the bondsman fee, still had to hire one expensive lawyer, still had to appear in front of a grand jury before it was dropped. All that for shooting someone threatening him with a weapon. The RedGoat has a point justified or not, it's still going to be one hell of a hassle. Draw a jury of liberal anti gunners and......... |
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I did that one time in like 92'. Got in a big fight with the girlfriend, went out and got lit. Came home and decided to take a leak outside in the bushes. Got confused I guess cuz I tried to get in a townhouse that was not mine. The owner of the house was very adamant that it was not my house, I knew the guy too, but was so lit I did not recognize him. Accused him of being a "back door man". By that time I had forced my way in. I remember thinking that my den looked different...haha, but it just did not register. I still thought he was in my house. Even when his wife Tammy appeared in a robe, I still thought "what are they both doing in my house?" He forcefully pushed me out of the house. Went to get his gun. I stood there banging on the door and screaming obscenities at him. Seem's like 30 seconds later to me but it must have been minutes, I heard someone say freeze, put your hands on top of your head and turn around slowly. Well, I just turned around. Again, lucky I did not get shot. Both officers had auto's aimed at my center mass. That got my attention. They ended up talking to Marty who was the neighbor I knew but did not recognize. Boy was I ever lit. He did not press charges, but the police decided it was best to book me on DIP and take me to the station. I spent the night there. I don't have more that 1-2 beers anymore....EVER. |