Posted: 2/5/2007 11:56:02 AM EDT
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Again, it's another what should I get questions, but I am going to be a bit more specific and I hope you guys can give me specific answers. First of all, I am getting my commission in the US Army pretty soon (Ft. Bennings OCS, unless I get myself hurt really bad in the near future). So, I am getting a graduation present. I am betting that I will go down range to sandy Iraq within 1.5 years, I need this gun to function flawlessly in less than ideal conditions with probably minimum maintenance. I am (i.e, my parents) willing to dish out appox $2000 for either one pistol or combination. I personally dislike the issued m9 (92fs) but I am not going into it. I have a Sig 229 in .40 SW, but I can't use that because .40 is not exactly available in the field. I could, however, have a lot of 9mm. .45 ACP could also be obtained, although a bit more scarce. So for the caliber, it would have to be either 9mm or .45. I also need a rail for mounted accessories (that's the reasons I won't be able to use my CZ-75) Any suggestions are welcome, but I hope for some detailed information. Here are a list of possibles that I have picked out, but PLEASE feel free to add on. .45 Sig P220 Combat. (I like Sig and this new one supposedly had better coat treatment for sandy places.) HK USP tactical Wilson Combat CQB rail Black Hawk GRP rail (I am curious to how blackhawk compare to Wilson combat) SA Tactical Response Pistol Kimber Desert Warrior Glock 21 Ed Brown Spec Forces STI (don't know much about it, any suggestions would be great) Les Baer (Any suggestions?) 9mm Glock 17 (I can probably grab one in Iraq, they are all over the place.), 35 Sig 226 or 226 x-five CZ Sp-01 HK USP (suggestions on 9mm 1911?) That's all I can think of for now. Thank you for all the advice. |
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9mm Glock 19 Its just handier than the 17 and still uses 17 and 31 round mags CZ sp-01 Great reliable pistol Sig 226 The only reason is do not own one is feel, I have small hands. As for 45 avoid the Desert Warrior if reports here are accurate it has reliability issues. Glock 21 is too damn big. I cannot speak to the boutique priced 1911s, but an SA Operator should be a good choice. As the Sig goes considering the capacity I would stick with a 1911. Check the Mil Regs on personal weapons you might be able to get it in theatre off CONUS but I doubt you could legally bring it back. |
#1 pick Nighthawk 10-8 utilizes a dawson rail. #2 pick RRA Tactical 
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Respectfully, you will not be able to bring a personally-owned weapon to theater unless you are in a special unit. If you're willing to gamble with your newly-aquired position, responsibility, authority and rank, go ahead... Use the money for training instead... it'll pay you back in spades. |
Thanks for the advice. Before I bring it, I will definitely comply with all channels. I was in Other Government Agencies that involve national security and I am aware of the need to follow all US regulations. There won't be any "gamble." But I very much appreciate the advice. But point taken, scrape the whole Iraq thing. Let's just say I will be living in a very sandy hot place and will shoot this gun without cleaning because I am lazy. I would still appreciate all advice. |
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Since you won't have a choice, use whatever the Army gives you. I'm not in the military but if I was, I would want everyone around me using the same weapons. If someone runs out of ammo, all mags/calibers would need to be universal to the team. Imagine having to unload a mag and then reload your own mag just because some a-hole didn't want to use the same gun as everyone else... |
And do what a buddy of mine did--buy quality mags and cleaning supplies. |
1) Have fun at OCS... Don't hurt yourself while you're there (Obstacle Course the first week (damn monkey bars), land-nav range, etc - most people that don't make it get hurt), life assigned to the HHC sucks... 2) You will use the M9 and you WILL LIKE IT... Because you will not be allowed to use anything else... Personal weapons are NOT ALLOWED outside of Special Forces, regardless of where you deploy to... 3) Therefore, get yourself a 92FS, and get familliar with it... Also, get yourself some Mec-gar or Beretta mags, a Wolff M9 INS spring upgrade, etc... The problems folks had with the M9 so far have been MAGAZINE, not WEAPON related... |
| I went to Iraq as an 0-4 in an infantry unit and the only variance in weapons we were allowed, and my unit was pretty laid back, was some limited mods to our rifles like supplying our own optics, rail systems, flashlights and the like. The only thing I saw done to pistols was the fitting of laser grips, but now the most recent edition of the PM monthly says laser grips are a no go. The m9 is a perfectly acceptable 9mm, I see no need to go out of your way to try to take a personal pistol on a deployment. Would I have prefererred my les baer 45 or to bring my steyr scout rifle ? sure but it was not allowed and there is enough BS invovled in a deployment to not add more. Also it is very likely as a new LT you would only be issued a rifle or carbine only by the way. Only company commanders and staff officers got pistols. I was a med officer and ended up with both an m16a4 and an M9. Never had any problems with either system.Also be aware that it is very difficult to obtain any much more than the "basic combat Load" of 9mm ammo in theater- my initial issue was just 30 rounds but as time went on I managed to acquire enough to fill 5 magazines. But do not bet if you do get a pistol on getting issued much more than 45 rounds |
Well I was going to suggest a 454 Casull with pearl grips ,but I guess you are stuck with a 92. Get some good mags and maybe get your own 92 to practice with? Oh get the wolf trigger return spring (or a few) that's the only thing that ever broke on my 92, but mine never left upstate NY and we don't have much sand here. |
That sounds an awful lot like what you originally asked, and if everyone else in the .mil here is correct, it would be ignorant to still keep looking for a pistol to use in Iraq. If I were you, I would probably just invest or save the money since you already have a pistol or two, or if you still want a pistol, decide what the requirements are for one you would want to have/use at home in the US. Why would you want to be lazy about cleaning it, almost sounds like you are proud of it. This advice is worth what you paid for it... |
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Get a BERETTA 92FS. I'm assuming you're not 18 series, so you don't have to worry about using anything other than an M9. Get a 92fs, get familiar with it, and you will appreciate it. Worst case, you can bring a few sets of springs and mags if you deploy. Swap out your recoil spring and hammer spring in your M9, and you will be golden. My 92fs is a GREAT handgun, but that is because it is taken care of. Some pretty simple things can be done to your M9 to have it running like it should, and thats a fresh set of springs. That will set you back about 450-500. You can even get a true M9 if you desire. That would still leave you enough $$ for two other handguns, one 9mm and one .45 I recommend handguns based on the principle that I now ONLY buy handguns with consistent trigger pulls...though I must admit, even if the other brands offered single action variants of their firearms, my list would not change. For what its worth, I have owned Beretta, CZ, Sig, Glock, HK, Kimber, Walther...so I've pretty much seen it all. 9mm Recommendations... 1- HK USP Fullsize V1 or V9 2- Glock 19, 17, or 34- they're all good, just a matter of preference. 3- CZ 75, or SP01 .45 ACP Recommendations 1- HK USP Tactical/USP .45 F, again...V1 or V9 2- Kimber Warrior or TLE RL II so long as it has an internal extractor 3- Glock 21 I have not heard of any issues with Kimber Warriors and reliability. Kimbers fullsize 1911's are generally VERY well built firearms. Another alternative would be to get a Beretta 92fs, and then save up for the new HK45 that should be out in the next few months. Its going to be a great handgun, seeming to combine the best features of the 1911, and the USP. Do what you wanna do, but if you're going mil, you SHOULD have a Beretta at home to work with. |
| Advice taken, I was misinformed and mistaken. I checked...and for the duty firearm, it has to be the M9. Therefore, I would not be bringing anything if deployed. It's just part of the learning process, but I would still get a new handgun after graduation. Any experience with these would be helpful. |
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Get yourself some of the PVD finished 17rd M9 mags. Chances are you will be issued some worn out Checkmate mags when you deploy. They are crap. There is nothing wrong with the Beretta pistol itself. About the only legitimate complaint that can be made about it is that it's excessively large, which in your situation is a total non-issue. You won't be trying to conceal it. |
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Glock 21-good gun, love mine, wide grip hard to conceal STI (don't know much about it, any suggestions would be great)-never touched one, some dealer is selling them for cost though. I'm not big into 1911s, but I have heard that the nighthawk pistols are good. What is the Sig 220 combat? I saw they were going to sell a single action cocked and locked version. I have only fired a 220 a few times, I know many people are crazy about them, I am not sure why. I did take a class with several guys who had sigs (9mm and 40 versions). I have to admit they appeared to be accurate and very reliable. 9mm If you are going to get a Glock 9mm I would get a 19. In my hands it is as accurate as a 17 and is much easier to conceal. There are probably 9mm pistols that are more inherently accurate and there are certainly prettier ones, but for a practical 9mm carry gun I think a Glock 19 is as good as it gets. |
I have an STI Edge and know 10-15 other people who have STI's. Although its a fine gun STI builds torward match type pistol that may not be the right pistol in a harsh enviro. A great Grad present but I would not want to trust my life to one that hasnt spent a lot of time out of the box. Aimless. The SIG P220 enjoy's the following they have because of exactly the reasons you stated No external safety, good double action first pull and a crisp single after that. They go bang everytime and are more accurate right out of the box than just about any of us can use. |
I'd say get exactly what you will be using for training purposes, but better. Get one of these. I hate 92 F's, but love this one. It will serve the purpose of being comparable with your duty weapon but with a little high speed appeal. Also accurate as hell. Stay safe. |
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I'd go with the Glock 19 to keep in your kit on your vest. Light and holds alot of commonly found ammo. You'll have your rifle with you and a ton of mags so space on your gear may be at a premium. I'd also get a Glock 21 for use when your not all geared up or use in a thigh rig. You should get both with night sights for $1000 which will allow extra $$ to go for Surefire x200s and holsters |
What about the total slide failures the M9 had that caused the SeALS to request SIGs? |
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as said above you will not be allowed to carry a personal pistol in theater. Some possible exceptions to this that I SAW while there: 1)one group of non SF guys in my brigade somehow managed to get HK MK23's (still issue guns) 2)some troops assigned to train iraqi police or army carried the issue pistol of the unit they were training with 3)in very limited circumstances some units have drawn arsenal stored 1911's by the way you can expect to clean yourrifle and or pistol daily while in Iraq the sand just invades everything. |
| as time drags on in a war zone, regulations and garrison mentality bs ensue. Things guys in oif1 did were not allowed in 2 and so on. so for example in oif 1 some units were allowing troops who only had pistols to carry and use ak's because of a shortage of m16 series weapons. Meanwhile when I was there my boss an 0-5 was given crap because he carried an AK while patrolling with the iraqi police |
Sir, one of the reasons that I thought about bringing my own personal weapon was the fact that I heard from many people who ended up using Aks and other weapons because of the lack of equipment. My recruiter, who was in the 82nd Airborne, told me that a lot of people bring/procure their own sidearms when he was deployed in 04. He didn't think it was a problem. He basically said that it's OK to bring it, and I believed him. Turns out he's wrong. Do you know if this lack of equipment still persist in Iraq? |
Besides not listening to gun dealers, you should probably take anything a recruiter tells you with a grain of salt. 
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They were also using hotly loaded submachine gun ammo in them, as far as I know. I don't believe that has ever happened with proper ammo. |
you'll be issued an M16/M4 and an M9. that's all you need to know. ASSUMING YOU CAN MANAGE TO NOT MISPLACE THEM you will not lack equipment. what the guy at the gun store, the recruiter, your cousin's friend, etc told you in terms of what you can bring into a combat theatre is their own crayon-colored version of BS. bring the shit you were issued, keep it clean and ready to rock, and don't let it out of your sight. there are people around you counting on you not to fuck up. keep that in mind. ar-jedi |
PLEASE tell me you are kidding. |
My dealer also told me that the Army SEALS telepathy now instead of firearms. |
Ammo was more closely pressurized to proof loads. Hotter than subgun ammo. The levels of  are reaching new heights in this thread!
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Are you in OCS now? How many bricks in Building Four? What do you mean "scrape the whole Iraq thing? You want to shoot this gun without cleaning because you are lazy? I'm smell BS.  |
I've seen the log for several pistols that had a ridiculous amount of rounds put through them. Try around the half million mark. The only parts that ever broke were locking blocks (old style, no problems with the latest ones) and the safety/decocking lever left side. These guns had the barrels replaced when they were shot out. I would (and do) carry an M9 without any reservation. |
Not my gun dealer, he's definatetly not fos, seeing as he's also my uncle. He carried a mossberg over there and had no complications. It's nice havin family in the gun biz, he fills my stocking full of .223 on x mas. |
Yep, because we all know family members don't lie
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