Posted: 6/4/2006 1:24:00 AM EDT
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Just curious if anyone's run into anything like the gunzone's glock pages for the Sig P220 series? I seem to remember years back about frame rail cracking but havent heard much lately. Has this issue been cured? Any other long term issues? I carry a privately purchased P220 as a duty weapon and am just curious if there's any good info on it's shortcomings. |
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Well, I haven't visited the gunzone for a long time, and I don't know what they have to say about it. I do work for a department (for about 10 yrs now) that when I first hired on issued the Sig P220. I didn't shoot the gun well, but I attributed that to being squeaky new in LE, and never having shot pistols much (was issued an M9 in the Marine Corps, but shot it precious little). The P220 issued to me (new in the box) was made in the US. I started in 1996, so it was obviously made either that year or before. I do know that the guns we got were made in the US, and were some of the first ones made here. I went off to the academy with my 220, and had several malfunctions. I attributed it to the crappy ammo that we got at the academy (factory reloads). Gun was very accurate, though. When I got out into actual LE work, i noticed the finish coming off the top of my slide. It began rusting quickly, and I was costantly having to keep a thick layer of oil on it, and scrubbing it weekly to make sure it didn't get worse. More malfunctions at quals and training. Got a memo from the firearms guru at the time to bring pistol in if finish was falling off (to be sent into Sig to have them redone). Our range master said mine was nothing compared to many others, and didn't send it in b/c of the high number they had to send. They also had everyone come in and replace their mag springs (thinking that would fix the high # of feed malfunctions that were plaging many). Didn't seem to help me, but I was only getting one or two malfunctions per qual, and I thought that wasn't too bad. Went out with an officer who was going to shoot a deer that had been hit. A very loud click and no bang. Tap-rack-click. Tap, rack, click. I shot the dear for him. His pistol just wouldn't work. I never found out why. That made a big impression on me. Shortly after that, the hammer rebound spring on my pistol broke, making it nearly useless. Got that fixed. Then, the spring that returns the trigger bar (under the right grip) broke - again, useless pistol. PD wide, they replaced all our springs in all our guns. Mine still had feed malfunctions with ball and HP ammo. So did many others - constant at training and quals. Everyone by now is starting to hate these guns. Ican't remember a qual of SWAT training going by when we didn't have many problems. Many of our mags (all factory sig) were starting to split in the back - and they all rusted and a very high rate. Department-wide, we replaced all of our mags with new sig stainless 8 rd mags. Feed problems still there. One day, cleaning my sig (I have always been a stickler for cleaning the things), I noticed the frame was cracked (right side near one of the pin holes if I remember right). My pistol was quietly replaced with a newly manufactured one. I still had feed problems with it. One day at SWAT training, one of our medics is doing a shooting drill from a stack. I was a safety officer and was making sure everyone was doing what they were supposed to. The medic begins firing, and about his third round, his slide shoots downrange. He's sitting there holding a frame with mag and round sticking up, but his slide is gone about 5 yards downrange. It was kinda funny once we saw noone was hurt. No nad round or anything - slide just shot off gun. Takedown lever had sheared off, and frame cracked. Gun replaced. By this time, I had had so much trouble, that I went and bought a .45 from a different mfgr - never a single problem with it to this day. Won't mention the make, b/c it throws some into a tizzy. Still, everyone else using sigs. I watch them struggle with constant malfunction (even with guns that were replaced with shiny new stainless versions). Our team does training a few times with a neighboring swat team. One guy brings to training a shiny new Sig P220 with a reail on it because he knew we used them, and thought we had our shit together. During that training, he couldn't get the damned thing to run. He sold it the next week. Oh, and our sigs had a bunch of problems the same week (our team commander - in a fit of 'I've had it' - threw his almost new sig into the berm behind the targets - oh, and he was a firearms instructor and sig armorer). Of course, all of these problems we had been having were ignored by our firearms guru (who had been key in choosing this gun - but always carried a 1911). He said most of the problems were likely caused by us doing something wrong to the pistols - he blamed it all on the officers. Well, we went over his head straight to the cheif after the slide shot off the gun and nothing happened. Cheif hadn't heard a peep about the problems. Cheif sent out an e-mail asking who had had significant, repeated problems with their sigs in the last two years. 60+% of the department had. 70+% said they did not trust their firearms b/c of all the problems they had seen. Cheif went out to see what the problem was. He took his little-fired sig P220 (along with many other PD members, most FA instructors), to wring them out. He wanted to see for himself. Both he and the asst chief had malfunctions in their first mags. Sig was contacted, and they came out to try and fix the problem. The sig rep told us that they would replace all of our pistols for a nominal trade fee per pistol - but said that the P220 did have many more problems that all of the rest of their line. About 6 mos later, we had pistols by a different maker. About the same time, the OK hwy patrol switched from their sig P220's to a P226 - shortly after Texas troopers did the same. I have yet to have or see a problem with our new guns (almost 2 years now). I can't recommend the P220. I know the 226 was great, and I have seen few problems with them. If I were you, I'd go another route. Maybe they've fixed the problems, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Hope this helps. YMMV. |
Interesting, my first P220 was an older W. German gun and it had tons of problems. It couldnt get through a 100round range qual without bobbling at least once. I traded it off on a new P220 which fortunately hasnt malfunctioned yet but I've got less than a thousand rounds through it. I do see malfunctions at every range qual with the dept issued guns ( not sigs) and for this and a few other reasons I've chosen the p220 off the approved list. I'd prefer something that fits me a bit better but it's the only optional .45 on the list. 
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Cyclone, IM sent. Mr45auto - if the thing works for you, by all means stick with it. They make bad ones and good ones. I had bad luck with them, and don't trust them - but if they have been 100% for you - well, screw what hasn't worked for me. Go with what you know, dude. If I had been issued one that was 100%, I'd prolly still be carrying one. I'd keep up on the spring changes (they have a life span, but your armorers will know what it is), and keep up with good mags. I wouldn't worry about it if it works. Everyone who had problems saw them early. The ones that worked always worked. Keep your 220 IMHO. |
I owned three generations of 220s and put thousands of rounds through them. They feed anything and were 100% reliable. My brother carried one on duty for several years too. I am still waiting for a good buy on a used stainless 220 in .45. I like'em a lot!!!  Not one of them were new when I acquired them, and one was a DPS trade in/refurb gun. |
Our armorers all drank the koolaid. I doubt they could keep anything running. It's a horrible thing watching them try to disassemble my 1911 and Sig at the range to do their preflight check on em. I usually have to run up and stop them before they break something. The first P220 I had I'm sure was a lemon. Even after swapping springs and the extractor it was troublesome. Mags had no effect either. The only good thing I can say is it came with a bunch of mags which I still have for my new P220. If the second was as bad as the first I guess I'd be carrying a plastic gun ( since it's the only other authorized autoloader) I am curious though is was your P220 the railed model? I have heard of all sorts of issues with them. |
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My department issues the 220. Older models were designed for only 15k rounds (or 20, I forget) and the SLIDES were beginning to crack at the dust cover. We got brand new railed models about a year ago. No abnormal problems that cant be traced back to asshat armorers (trigger return spring installed wrong after cleaning  )I trust my Sig everyday. It was not always that way, in the academy I broke one several times during quals (again, old model)... I think you will find every PD has it's fair share of problems with any pistol model if it's issued in large enough numbers. |
No - no rail on our old guns. Saw one guys using the railed model that was the worst I'd seen as far as feed problems. They were new back then (rail models), and may have worked out their problems. Again, have heard from many who have no issues, I think I am just unlucky. |
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I bought a brand new P220 stainless last year. Out of the box, the mag catch wouldn't work. so when you insert a mag, it will just fall off. This is on a brand new untouched gun. got rid of it quickly. Come on, at least the swiss guy would check if the gun would work before they export the frame here. This is the US made slide with the frame made in Switzerland. I now stick with my USP45 without any issue whatsoever. |
| I carry my personal W. German P220 everyday and love it. I've never had a problem with it. As for the new models the same cannot be said. I tried a couple of differenct P220Rs and had nothing problems out of them. The P220STs have been totally reliable that I've tried so I don't know what the deal is there. I just stick with the good ole West German. |