[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why go .40? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/28/2006 4:55:12 PM EDT
| This is not a flame or bash torwards the .40S&W cartridge, im just looking for serious responses. From terms of expansion/penetration, it seems pretty comparable to modern day 9mm's if im not mistaken? Plus you gain more recoil and lose a couple rounds. Could someone please enlightment to why the .40 is such a great round compared to 4th generation 9mm's? |
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i dont know... i'm a 9mm/.45acp/10mm fan myself  my guess: since the major LEOs adopted it and through heigriachial diffusion, everyone else got caught into the craze; besides, it fits in most double stack 9mm frames (unlike the .45acp and 10mm) and was easier for mnaufactures to convert--people then naturally went to the bigger caliber |
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It's a bigger and heavier bullet, going as fast as a 9mm. It's as simple as that. Hits harder. Just like .30.06 hits harder than .308 and .300 Win Mag hits harder than .30.06. They're all capable of killing, but the more powerful rounds do more damage. While you're not at a handicap with 9mm, don't kid yourself into thinking it's as damaging as a .40. And don't kid yourself that a .40 is a 10mm. |
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Great reason when my department switched to .40 S&W. We traded all our old Sig 226 9mm's for new 226 .40's with rail for $100 bucks each. I had an honest 7500 rounds out of my 9 and it was used when issued to me. Seems to be a good comprimse between power, weight, capacity and performance. That said lots of bad guys have had bad days due to a 9mm. Joe |
+1 |
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The advantage is that it’s more powerful than a 9MM while not requiring the larger frame and (generally) reduced capacity of a .45. Ultimately though, it’s a compromise cartridge. So it’s also true to say it doesn’t have the fast recovery of a 9MM or the power of a .45. |
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Cause it gives you one more thing to buy and play with? No but seriously, I used to work at an indoor gun range, and now I'm a cop and I was a rangemaster for 3 years before switching states, the 40 is shot better by a lot of people who can't shoot the 45 or the 9mm well. The 45 has a large push, the 9mm has a quick jump (bear with the terminology here) and the 40 is more of a medium push. I've had shooters who couldn't shoot a 9mm because they would anticipate the recoil and always shoot low and left, and their hands didn't fit a 45 that well. But the 40 being in the middle was just right... guess it's kind of like the 3 bears and goldilocks. My $.02 |
granted I haven't shot a lot of .40 yet, but I didn't find the recoil to be much different from the 9mm from my beretta. same gun, just different slides and barrels |
New shooters turning 21, during the new 21st Century will make the .40 S&W "their caliber" and they will have the same outlook that you now have about the 9mm and .45 ACP. They will view the .45 ACP and 9mm as just one other caliber to stock. Cartridges evolve and as science and technology comes up with new creations it means great things for shooters willing to accept the new stuff. It doesn't do a damn bit of good to the guys who won't use them. Same goes for the once newfangled M16 and the good 'ol M14. Or the trapdoor Springfield and Springfield 1861 Musket. Eleventually change will come, lets just hope we still have a hobby to partake in during the upcoming years. If you had started with .40 S&W you could have had a better round to begin with and then you would have never have to "stock" 9mm  .
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| I love my ultrastar .40.. makes a great bark and a huge flash toohots |
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Gee, just look at the ballistics, tests, and police stats. That's why I shoot 40 S&W. It's a nice balance of all factors and limitations. If I didn't shoot .40, I'd definitely go to the 45ACP, especially now that several manuf. are making affordable 45s with 13-14 rnd. mags., i.e., XD and Para Ord. BTW, I've a friend who's a LEO. So far, working up in ranks, he's gone through four different police jurisdictions in five years. Every one of them required him to carry 45ACP as his service weapon, and required him to shoot Rem. Golden Saber. Maybe they know something? Here's some FBI data. Be sure to notice that you can sort the long listed results by criteria at the top: http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php |
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I switched to .40 cuz I got sick of the unreliability of the 1911 platform and the low capacity too. But one does not go from .45 to 9mm. I tried it and felt like I had a chick gun or some shit. So my natural choice was a .40 caliber glock. Total reliability and the luxory of doubling my capacity. 
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Interesting point |
I disagree on the recoil. The .45 has a strong push, but the .40 has a sharp inital push (a lot of muzzle flip if you're not watching) and then the curve tapers off faster than a .45. |
It's not. On a side note, If you think you can't handle the recoil on a 10mm, try shooting one first. If you actually try it and still can't handle it, stick with your 9mm. |
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Like all the different types of guns out there....there is also different types of ammunition to confuse and cause conflicts. I personally sold ALL of my handguns to start over with. I am going right down the middle this time with the HK USPc .40. If you have a bunch of 9mm's and 45 Acp's I can defenitely understand why you wouldnt want to throw a 40 in the mix. Then there are young guys like me who only want one gun to carry and shoot with. A .40 fits the bill extremely well if you ask me. larger/heavier bullet + similar velocity as 9mm = better wounding penetration. Makes sense to me. I say get what works for you, end of discussion. P.S. It should also be noted that the .40 is still one of the new kids on the block. The 9mm and the 45 acp have been around forever. Like Markm said, I too ran into the problem of finding a reliable and comfortable platform to use the 45ACP in. 1911's were too unreliable for me, double-stack 45's are too big for my hands and are naturally more uncomfortable to carry concealed. 9mm's leave more to be desired as far as penetration, sure...I have more bullets available in the gun but reliable studies show that most gun fights consist of the following. 3 shots fired-3 feet in distance-3 seconds in length. I am sure someone will be along shortly to disprove this statement but that's what I head on the internet....and we all know everything we hear on the internet is true.  Thanks for reading this post and letting me babble on. 
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Bingo. I have 9 and 40 handguns. If I was expecting on trouble, I would take my 40 any day. 
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Any reasons why you feel that way? I like the .40 S&W very much and value the larger bullets I get with the .40 S&W. Honestly the only reason I can see why a person wouldn't get one is the price of the ammunition. $17 for Winchester White Box (100 Rounds), compared to the 9x19 $12. The .45 ACP runs $21 for 100. These are local Wal-Mart prices, Ohio. The recoil will always be there regardless of how much training you have, but it can be controlled/tamed with additional PROPER practice and PROPER training. And the reason for the extra recoil is that you are pushing a heavier projectile at similar velocites to the 9mm. I hate to get into the caliber debate, but there are rounds avalible today that outpreform the good 'ol .45 ACP and 9mm. The only way to benefit from the nearly 100 years of R&D, since the 9x19 and the .45 ACP were developed, is to pick up a pistol chambered for the new rounds and grab a case of ammo. |
That may be so with other shooters, but not with me. I can shoot a 9mm(light snap) and a 45(big push) fine, but a 40 is just too snappy. If I concentrait I can do alright, but if I loose my focus(what do you think happens in a gunfight?) I start shooting low because of anticipation. |
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Why the .40? The .40 represents all the qualities one would want in a self defense caliber. Hits harder and faster than 9mm and .45ACP without resorting to overcharged ammo. Makes a big hole. Expands well, penetrates hard barriers better, no compromise on capacity. Ammo is cheap ($8.50/50rds FMJ), works in a 9mm size package...etc etc What's not to like really. Recoil is relative, and having enough trigger time will offset any perceived increase in "snap" The 155gr .40 might be the ideal SD load in a semi firearm as far as I am concerned |
Well said! |
| I currently shoot 9mm and .45. I shot a .40 for the first time this past weekend. I personally didn't like it. My accuracy was fine but I didn't like the snappy recoil. I'd definately say the recoil was harder to manage than the .45 do to the violent snap of the .40. I'll stick with the 9mm. I have every confidence in it's abilities with modern loadings. |
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The very best 9mm SD loads are only as good as midrange to low end .40 cartridges. And once you start shooting +p and +p+ ammo the recoil goes up to .40 levels and the cost is about the same as well once you get to premium ammunition. There is literally zero reason in terms of SD applications to choose 9mm over .40. People can justify it however they like but the 9mm is completely inferior. .45 is big, but not as potent and you take a hit to capacity without resorting to a very large grip. .45 is expensive as well. .45 does its best work with a 5" barrel, while .40 remains potent with 4" barrels which means smaller and lighter guns. .40 has become increasingly popular in competition shooting which proves the recoil and accuracy concerns some have is unwarranted. |
It had to be said. There really are not any reasons other than money as to why any person would shoot 9mm. My life has no price, because without my life, money will no longer exist for me. So when it comes to defending myself, I choose .40 S&W because there isn't any reason not to. |
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Why so much hate for a double stack .45? My P-14-45 does just fine under a sportcoat or loose shirt (but I have a waist ) and while I don't have ham hand I have long fingers and a "kung foo" grip. Anyway a good holster makes a big dif. That said I love my .40 cal.... 1911 single stack.  Burn the heretic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
I chose the Glock 23 wanting something larger than 9mm and more capacity then most .45's at the time, also knowing that I can buy a conversion barrel and shoot 9mm at any time which I may just do since I don't care much for the .40 anymore. not that there is anything wrong with it, just that it's not my flavor 
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I say go .357 Sig or 45 GAP and just get rid of the 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45ACP debate. There are so many caliburs around that it is just nuts. There are many rifle caliburs too but we get what we want. I like 9mm G26 (have thought of getting a G19 for 3-gun) and I have used it to defend myself (9mm ball round not the G26). I want a 45ACP just to have one but have thought of adding .40 SW or a .357 Sig just add another weapon. My wife wants me to stick to 9mm or get a .45 ACP weapon to have the same ammo as her dad. It is hard to say no to 45 ACP when the wife says get one.  I have a good wife. My brother has a 96D but I think my issue is with Berretta's more than the ammo. Wonder if I can get a .40SW barrel for my G26.... |
I just got the 357 sig barrel for my 229, also have a 239 that has both barrels. Personally, I think any quality defense round in the big 3 (9mm, 40SW, 45 ACP) is fine. Use what works for you. That being said, all this talk of recoil gets me. The type of gun you are shooting has a lot to do with it. I don't think the 40 recoil is bad at all, but the recoil in my Sig 229 is much less than my Sig 239. The ergonomics of the gun play a very important role in your comfort level. I had a Springfield XD subcompact chambered in 9mm. It was less manageable than my sigs due to the fact my pinky wasn't on the grip. |
