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Posted: 3/10/2006 4:25:57 PM EDT
Alright, here is the thing.

Im looking for a new .45 to use as a sidearm while bowhunting. I hate rattlesnakes and with the onslaught of Mountain Lions moving into West Texas Ive decided to put a little extra firepower on the waist.

So, I need a 45 that is:

1) Dependable. I will be shooting Double Tap +p Gold Dots or Winchester Rangers for standard ammo. HOWEVER, the first round chambered will be a CCI 45 Shotshell. So, that means no ported models.

2) Ability to take punishment. I need a gun that can withstand a little punishment and still function.

3) Safe. I need something that I can trust not to discharge while crawling around on the ground.

4) I would prefer a double action for a hunting sidearm, so that leaves 1911's out.

SO, Im thinking about the following.

1) Springfield XD Tactical 45 ACP - Since SA started putting the new finishs on the XDs I will seriously consider one of them.

2) Sig Arms P220R DAK 45 ACP

3) H&K USP 45 ACP

SO, what do you guys think?

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:42:58 PM EDT
What do I think?

Option 3.

All three options are great though. I dont see a glock 21 there, which means you will be skipping the hand injury that prevents you from using your bow.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:54:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texas_archer:
So, I need a 45 that is:

1) Dependable. I will be shooting Double Tap +p Gold Dots or Winchester Rangers for standard ammo. HOWEVER, the first round chambered will be a CCI 45 Shotshell. So, that means no ported models.

2) Ability to take punishment. I need a gun that can withstand a little punishment and still function.

3) Safe. I need something that I can trust not to discharge while crawling around on the ground.

4) I would prefer a double action for a hunting sidearm, so that leaves 1911's out.


Given the needs you specified. I'd have to say that a Smith & Wesson 625 fits perfectly.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:07:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 5:09:26 PM EDT by hitnrun]
I gotta vote for the P220 DAK or not. You can't go wrong with a Sig!

tinypic.com/view/?pic=r6xsw2


OR

tinypic.com/view/?pic=r6xqab

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:09:32 PM EDT
to address your topic title: G21

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=13658

of course, all of your other choices are just as good--cant go wrong w/ any of em

h/w, for some reason, i can beat up a glock, but beating up any other gun seems sinful
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:09:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 5:09:58 PM EDT by adair_usmc]

Originally Posted By hitnrun:
I gotta vote for the P220 DAK or not. You can't go wrong with a Sig!

i2.tinypic.com/r6xqab


OR


i2.tinypic.com/r6xqab



red X or red X ?

Edit, I see you fixed the links.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:11:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MyWar:

Originally Posted By texas_archer:
So, I need a 45 that is:

1) Dependable. I will be shooting Double Tap +p Gold Dots or Winchester Rangers for standard ammo. HOWEVER, the first round chambered will be a CCI 45 Shotshell. So, that means no ported models.

2) Ability to take punishment. I need a gun that can withstand a little punishment and still function.

3) Safe. I need something that I can trust not to discharge while crawling around on the ground.

4) I would prefer a double action for a hunting sidearm, so that leaves 1911's out.


Given the needs you specified. I'd have to say that a Smith & Wesson 625 fits perfectly.
www.budsgunshop.com/auction/26319.jpg

+1
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:20:25 PM EDT
HK USP or the 220 DAK.

Screw the XD. Regardless of what people say it is a cheap gun made for a demographic of gun buyers who cannot afford a SIG or HK, but seek the an alternative to Glock.

Try both pistol and select the one that feels best in your hands. The better the gun feels the better you will shoot with it, simple as that. AR15.com cannot tell you what fits good in your hands. The USP is built to take the punishment of the +P loads, with the recoil reduction system, it reduced wear and tear on your gun. Even though the 220 wasn't designed with +P in mind, it is still one hell of a tuff reliable gun. Just get whats feels best to you. Good luck!

(You got some good choices!)
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:20:26 PM EDT
HK if you want a semi
625 if you want a revolver


Woody
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:06:00 PM EDT
USPf .45
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:00:08 PM EDT
HK USPF 45
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:04:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:26:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
I'd move up to a 10mm.



+1
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:29:08 AM EDT
three that aren't up there are the ruger p90, p97, and p345. all are available in manual safety or decocker models. they are all da/sa setups though. i don't know if you are against that or not. the p97 is discontinued but available on the used market. that model was made in a dao configuration but only for a couple years.

another to think about is the cz97b. it is a da/sa setup also. they are excellent pistols. the eaa witness is a cz75 clone but available in .45acp.

as far as a gun being safe while crawling you need to invest in a good holster and make sure the trigger is covered by it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:52:41 AM EDT
Personally I'd carry a 1911 but that's not what you want so of the pistols you list I'd lean hard towards the XD45. Just shoot the hell out of it first to be sure of it's reliability. ( as I would say with any newly purchased pistol)
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:30:06 AM EDT
Of your choices - 220
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:15:44 AM EDT
#1, #2, then the revolver pictured above. Forget the USP.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:25:51 AM EDT
G21/G30 or a 625 with 4 inch barrel.

I keep snake shot in my G21 and it cycles no problem at all. The 625 is a great revolver and with moon clips, you can reload pretty fast and carry different ammo and switch fast.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:40:22 AM EDT
Since you want a 45 that will shoot anything I would get the S&W 625. I carry a 4" M19 loaded with 180gr JHPs when I'm out hunting. You can't really go wrong with a good reliable revolver. Out of the autos you have listed as your choices though I would pick the USP or an old W. German P220.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:38:30 PM EDT
I'd choose the 220 out of your choices.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:47:44 PM EDT
Glock 20 or 21

Rugged, dependable, high capacity.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 3:58:40 PM EDT by NME]

Originally Posted By GenghisKhan:

Originally Posted By Wave:
I'd move up to a 10mm.



+1



Yeah, .45's kinda old...
What the Hell do you want a shotshell for anyway?

Edited to add...
Oh...Teh snakes...

Why not just carry a derringer for that?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:51:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:
#1, #2, then the revolver pictured above. Forget the USP.



Unlike Timmy, I gotta suggest the USP.

It doesnt require alot of oil, its not a cheap croation POS, and you can carry it any way you want.

Not sure what else you could want. Reliabiity, extreme accuracy, and versatility. HK all the way.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:34:34 PM EDT
USP .45F
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:47:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP or the 220 DAK.

Screw the XD. Regardless of what people say it is a cheap gun made for a demographic of gun buyers who cannot afford a SIG or HK, but seek the an alternative to Glock.
quote]


Ha Ha Ha!!!! Thanks for the good laugh!!!!

I own SIG and HK and although SIG is my 1st choice the XD is every bit as good as the SIG and HK.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:49:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Not sure what else you could want.



A decent trigger for $800 would be a good start.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:10:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 11:11:36 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Hunting sidearm????



In .357 -> under $700

Or .44 for a tad more... Still in the HK/Sig price range,...

Same caliber as a revolver, without the slow reload & poor trigger...



I've thought about getting one just for the 'Is that a... Yes, it is, but not .50cal... 357... More practical'...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:22:59 AM EDT
All the autos look good with a slight advantage to the glock due to the fact rust is less of a factor for it.
However, for a backup hunting pistol I would strongly recommend a .357 mag revolver. Similiar weight as a .45 auto and even though it holds less ammo each round puts a hell of a lot more hurt down range.
IMHO a backup weapon should be light, compact and as powerful as possible. hopefully you will never need it but if you do you will want all the power you can get.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:26:51 AM EDT
In my experience, it is illegal to bow hunt w/ a sidearm. TX may be different. Just double chevk if you havnen't allready.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:57:57 AM EDT
I've only shot a USP45f one time and it was enough for me to want one. It's on the list as is a P220. Id say you cant go wrong with either of those, I dont know anything about the XD45's.

Dont discount the revolver either as a good backup gun.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:17:41 AM EDT
I recommend the P220. Dependable, and the most accurate .45 I have ever fired.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:01:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
In my experience, it is illegal to bow hunt w/ a sidearm. TX may be different. Just double chevk if you havnen't allready.




Its legal as long as you have your CCW permit.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:51:13 AM EDT
All are good choices. I'd go with the HK followed by the Sig and the XD last.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:28:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Hunting sidearm????

nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/044907000/44907173/pix570216235.jpg

In .357 -> under $700

Or .44 for a tad more... Still in the HK/Sig price range,...

Same caliber as a revolver, without the slow reload & poor trigger...



I've thought about getting one just for the 'Is that a... Yes, it is, but not .50cal... 357... More practical'...



Best choice so far.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:33:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:34:54 AM EDT by Burkey]

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP or the 220 DAK.

Screw the XD. Regardless of what people say it is a cheap gun made for a demographic of gun buyers who cannot afford a SIG or HK, but seek the an alternative to Glock.
quote]


Ha Ha Ha!!!! Thanks for the good laugh!!!!

I own SIG and HK and although SIG is my 1st choice the XD is every bit as good as the SIG and HK.



You cannot be serious? Can you please elaborate on just why the XD is "every bit as good as the SIG and HK?"
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:01:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP or the 220 DAK.

Screw the XD. Regardless of what people say it is a cheap gun made for a demographic of gun buyers who cannot afford a SIG or HK, but seek the an alternative to Glock.
quote]


Ha Ha Ha!!!! Thanks for the good laugh!!!!

I own SIG and HK and although SIG is my 1st choice the XD is every bit as good as the SIG and HK.



You cannot be serious? Can you please elaborate on just why the XD is "every bit as good as the SIG and HK?"



My wife has an XD40, I have a Sig P220 I carry on duty.

The XD is a better shooter for me than the sig. I however would not carry the XD simply because I feel the .40 is inadequate based on the shootings I've seen with it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:04:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 9:07:38 AM EDT by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Not sure what else you could want.



A decent trigger for $800 would be a good start.



Well, I guess thats subjective. I for one have never had an issue with HK triggers. The standard trigger feels better to me than most DA/SA, and the match trigger is even better. Either way, for 800, you'd be getting a used Tactical that has a match trigger in it anyways. Otherwise, you got assraped on the price.

Now, I wouldnt really care to use the trigger in DA mode, but thats why I love V1. Cocked and locked :-)
For some reason though, my P2K V3 has a very smooth DA pull. You should give it a shot next time we go shoot.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:58:35 AM EDT

If you check out the G21 punishment thread... it would put doubts on whether the USP is that good a pistol. But it all could be subjective. I'll probably vote for a G21 over a USP... even thur you don't have a G21 listed.

Also, you may want to think about SW4506... it's built like a tank. But it's a heavy peice... which is good cause it soaks up my 230gr +P like nothing, almost feel like shooting a 40SW.

~nb
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:19:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:33:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbieDave:
If you check out the G21 punishment thread... it would put doubts on whether the USP is that good a pistol. But it all could be subjective. I'll probably vote for a G21 over a USP... even thur you don't have a G21 listed.

Also, you may want to think about SW4506... it's built like a tank. But it's a heavy peice... which is good cause it soaks up my 230gr +P like nothing, almost feel like shooting a 40SW.

~nb



How does the G21 test make the USP a "less good" pistol?

Apparantly you don't know much about HK's.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:54:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:

Originally Posted By NewbieDave:
If you check out the G21 punishment thread... it would put doubts on whether the USP is that good a pistol. But it all could be subjective. I'll probably vote for a G21 over a USP... even thur you don't have a G21 listed.

Also, you may want to think about SW4506... it's built like a tank. But it's a heavy peice... which is good cause it soaks up my 230gr +P like nothing, almost feel like shooting a 40SW.

~nb



How does the G21 test make the USP a "less good" pistol?

Apparantly you don't know much about HK's.



Well see, if your Using the G21 for a hand grenade it's excellant for the job!

Nathan
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:07:47 PM EDT
Have you followed the G21 test done by BigBore?

Mid way into his G21 testing, after unknown number of rounds through it, after he shot at it, after he left it outside to rust, etc.. etc... he did a simple sand-n-bucket test with his well-used G21 and a USP compact (45). G21 functioned without issue... USP didn't fair so well. I would read it:

BigBore's G21 Test

Anyway, I like the USP... I have a full-size myself. But my comment above is strictly based on the BigBore's test and the fact that the poster wanted a 45 for bowhunting (outdoor, lots of muck, lots of SAND, lots of everything). He's not looking for a range gun, he wants a working gun. Like I said, based on what BigBore has done with his G21... I'll pick it over a USP when I need a outdoor beater.

Just my 2 cent.

~nb
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:09:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:22:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP or the 220 DAK.

Screw the XD. Regardless of what people say it is a cheap gun made for a demographic of gun buyers who cannot afford a SIG or HK, but seek the an alternative to Glock.
quote]


Ha Ha Ha!!!! Thanks for the good laugh!!!!

I own SIG and HK and although SIG is my 1st choice the XD is every bit as good as the SIG and HK.



You cannot be serious? Can you please elaborate on just why the XD is "every bit as good as the SIG and HK?"



I own several SIG's and 1 HK USP. I own 3 XD's and I will say that one of the XD has been a problem pistol(leamon). The other 2 have been superb hand guns. As accurate as my SIG's and HK. All group 1 inch or less at 10 yards. The XD's have been 100% reliable, extreemly durable(I have purposley droped the XD in a lake and fished it out full of mud and it fired with out a hitch). I like how heavy the rails are compaired to every other polymer made gun. They are real heavy and not just 2 thin tabs the slide rides on(by far the best designed rails on a polymer hand gun made to date). The machining is top quality as are the SIG and HK. Also the feel of the way the mags slide in and out is better then any other hand gun I have felt......super smooth and crips!

These are a few of the qualities that make the XD a top quality hand gun.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:23:54 AM EDT
I've never fired or own a Sig or HK before, but I can tell you the XD is not a piece of crap.

I've shot about 600 rounds through mine and it has not FTF or FTE'ed one time. Great finish, Great ergonomics, great price. Love my Bi-Tone slide. This is my first gun ever. It is a great gun and I will buy another.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:16:09 AM EDT
i would say 1911, but sence thats out i would tell you eather a XD or a USP
i had a chance to shoot a XD 5in barrel and i was very impressed with it. not as accurate as my 1911 after the EGW bushing but darn close.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:00:39 AM EDT
Having owned all the brands you mention, the Ruger sounds like the best bet, for the reasons anothergene mentioned. I also notice that "accuracy" was not one of your top criteria

I don't mind getting down and dirty with my guns, but if I were going to be buying a gun that was occasionally intended to take a lot of abuse and neglect, Ruger would be hard to beat for the money. Sure, you can buy an HK for four times as much, a SIG for three times as much, or an XD for twice as much, but the Ruger will get the job done.

It won't really give you bragging rights among the gun snobs back at camp, but that's about it.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 2:06:53 PM EDT
I like HK the most out of the 3. I don't like the XD for the same reason I don't like Glocks, no hammer and no controls. I don't like Sig, primarily because it is so right hand oriented and I am lefty. The HK is the most ambidextious handgun out there and with all the different configurations you can do with about $20 in parts and 5 minutes of time. It is my favorite pistol.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:29:20 PM EDT
Sig 220.

I've owned the HK and SIG and the Sig seemed like the one that would be more likely to take abuse.

Those little tiny fraim rails molded into the plastic on the HK were not really impressive, though I do think the gun will operate fine and give 50,000 round life which is more than most need.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 4:22:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 4:23:46 PM EDT by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By NewbieDave:
Have you followed the G21 test done by BigBore?

Mid way into his G21 testing, after unknown number of rounds through it, after he shot at it, after he left it outside to rust, etc.. etc... he did a simple sand-n-bucket test with his well-used G21 and a USP compact (45). G21 functioned without issue... USP didn't fair so well. I would read it:

BigBore's G21 Test

Anyway, I like the USP... I have a full-size myself. But my comment above is strictly based on the BigBore's test and the fact that the poster wanted a 45 for bowhunting (outdoor, lots of muck, lots of SAND, lots of everything). He's not looking for a range gun, he wants a working gun. Like I said, based on what BigBore has done with his G21... I'll pick it over a USP when I need a outdoor beater.

Just my 2 cent.

~nb



You ever see the Larry Vickers test where he put a USP Tactical against a Glock 21 and a Springfield 1911?

Guess which order they choked in the sand.

G21 went out first
springfield milspec went out later
USP Tactical...did the best.

One test doesn't prove anything. Taking one test as the gospel only shows your ignorance. I suggest you read ALL of them.


You know what any of these tests prove? Under the right conditions, everything will fail. One extra grain of sand in one specific spot could stop ANY gun. Theres no way to induce the same amount of sand into a handgun to detirmine which actually peforms better. The Vickers test, the Bigbore test...none of them give any conclusive results as to what performs better.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:54:38 PM EDT
compound, correct? get back to basics. bow, tomahawk, and a knife. if you dont feel comfortable with those weapons, maybe you shouldnt be out there.
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