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Posted: 3/7/2006 10:57:00 PM EDT
My dad wants a handgun for Home Defese to go with the Remington 870 he bought. I have a G26, and going to buy me a G19 but thats me. My mom said he needs to have a external safety or it needs to be a revolver. I do not know how much he will shot or train with the weapon. I was saying CZ's (i want a 75 or 85)but just want to know what you would say. Former military pilot if that helps any.

Scott
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:10:33 PM EDT
CZ75
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:39:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
CZ75



+1. or a ruger. either one will give excellent service. a ruger p series 9mm can be bought for under $400 and a cz75 for under $500.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:03:31 AM EDT
How old is your Dad - Any Physical disabilities - when did he last shoot a pistol ?

If he's under 60 and Healthy , he could handle any pistol/caliber.
Being a former Pilot/Vet he certainly should have a head on his shoulders.

For around the house why not a nice basic 1911 ?
He probably had some training with it.

If he has hand or strength problems , they make sidecocker attachments for 1911s , and the 1911
trigger is lighter than a revolver.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
For around the house why not a nice basic 1911 ?



because he wants something that will go bang every time without spending an extra $200 tuning it. i can't think of how many people i have heard complain at the range that their 1911 doesn't run on jhp ammo or that they had to polish up the feed ramp real good to make it do so.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:14:41 AM EDT
Honestly, I believe in the moment of truth your mind turns to crap. For those who don't spend a lot of time trainning with handguns, you need something you can just pick up and shoot. A Glock has no external saftey except the double trigger pull. If Dad dosn't spend time training, go with the GLOCK. Just keep it some place safe.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:43:40 AM EDT
+1 for a 1911....all of my stock SAs, Kimber, and SW goes ''bang'' everytime and the only problems i have had are w/ some of those aftermarket crap mags

if its got to be a manual safetied 9mm, i guess i will second the CZ or a BHP or a more budget minded Ruger P89
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:41:17 AM EDT
Sig220 - Seriously.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:27:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Sig220 - Seriously.



BIG + 1
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 12:30:49 PM EDT by MartinR]
If he has mininal experience and/or doesn't plan to practice regularly, I'd STRONGLY suggest a DA REVOLVER. I like a 4", .357 (use .38spl for practice). S&W, Ruger, or Taurus.

KISS principle. No safeties to remember, no risk of limp-wristing failures, easy to see if loaded, no concern about physical strength required to pull back slide.

Of course, he should try as many as possible and be the one to make the final decision.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:53:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
For around the house why not a nice basic 1911 ?



because he wants something that will go bang every time without spending an extra $200 tuning it. i can't think of how many people i have heard complain at the range that their 1911 doesn't run on jhp ammo or that they had to polish up the feed ramp real good to make it do so.



THAT is the result of people not researching their purchases , or going for the cheapest option.

NO firearm can be trusted to run 100% until you have test fired some rounds , not
evan a revolver or singleshot.

Even so 99 0ut of a 100 Springfield ,Colt, or Kimbers will be reliable out of the box with
quality ammo - the 1911 design is quite tolerant of ammo differences as long as you
don't pick very light loads or oddly shaped bullets.



And flicking off the safety on a cocked and Locked 1911 is HARDLY Rocket Science.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:03:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 3:05:53 PM EDT by Arkansas_Rocketman]
If he is not really familiar with handguns and you don't think he will shoot a lot, I'd go with a 4" double action .357 / .38 special revolver.

They are relatively safe, dependable, accurate, and easy to use. Ain't nothin' worse than someone panicking in a stressful situation and forgetting to put the safety in the off position, dropping the mag accidentally, forgetting to rack the slide, or other possible semi-auto mishaps.

Ruger SP 101, Ruger Security-Six, S&W Model 19, S&W Model 66, S&W Model 586 or 686 might all be good choices. He can shoot 148gr. wadcutters at first then move up to stouter loads.

He WILL smile and develop confidence in his gun whenever he sees those little bitty groups that a 148 gr. HBWC will make!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:48:04 PM EDT
Used S&W revolver, models 64/65/66/581/681, etc. etc.

Your note of training questions eliminates the use of a semi, IMO. A revolver goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. A tap/rack/bang drill isn't for the novice, casual gun owner, IMO.

My .o2
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:52:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 4:53:48 PM EDT by BobCole]

Originally Posted By AKsRule:

NO firearm can be trusted to run 100% until you have test fired some rounds , not
evan even a revolver or singleshot.



Millions of revolvers would prove you wrong, sir.




And flicking off the safety on a cocked and Locked 1911 is HARDLY Rocket Science.


Please read again where he notes minimal, if any training. In addition to the wife having access. In addition to rolling out of bed from a deep sleep @ zero dark thirty for a burglar. Worst thing in the world is for a semi in that circumstance for a newbie gun owner.

My .o2
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:52:48 PM EDT
CDNN has new Ruger P-89 DAO's for $249. I wouldn't want to be limited to a double action only gun, but it might be just the thing for Dad.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:14:47 PM EDT
AR15 pistol....SERIOUSLY
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:16:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:

NO firearm can be trusted to run 100% until you have test fired some rounds , not
evan even a revolver or singleshot.



Millions of revolvers would prove you wrong, sir.




And flicking off the safety on a cocked and Locked 1911 is HARDLY Rocket Science.


Please read again where he notes minimal, if any training. In addition to the wife having access. In addition to rolling out of bed from a deep sleep @ zero dark thirty for a burglar. Worst thing in the world is for a semi in that circumstance for a newbie gun owner.

My .o2




Yes , and Millions of guns have spent their lives in dresser drawers and closets without ever being
fired , so what ?

I first fired a 1911 in Training in the Army - NEVER was issued one - NEVER even Touched one
after that for about 25 years


Next time I picked one up I still remembered how to load and fire the Fool thing
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:24:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 1:25:22 AM EDT by 199]

Originally Posted By ffhounddog:
... My mom said he needs to have a external safety or it needs to be a revolver. ...


Why?

After all, revolvers don’t have external safeties. And I wouldn’t think she’s insisting on a cocked-and-locked type of semi.

Anyway, there are literally dozens of fine handguns that he can select from. Frankly, you haven’t given much in specifics to help narrow down the choices.

Assuming a semi that has an external safety and that can be easily de-cocked is what you want, there are plenty of Ruger, Beretta and S&W models that meet that standard. Also, and what would be my choice, would be an appropriately configured H&K USP (though I have to admit they really are overpriced!).
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:46:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 7:48:27 AM EDT by ARer]
Sig 226 or 229 DAK and if you want a 45, 220 DAK. Its as safe as a revolver.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:03:50 AM EDT
CZ 75B
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:23:53 PM EDT
Another for a double action revolver in .357 magnum, preferably stainless. Needs minimal care, very reliable requires little training and very easy to operate in a high stress situation. Also allows practice with inexpensive .38 special ammo and can be loaded with very serious .357 mag rounds for the real thing.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:30:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
For around the house why not a nice basic 1911 ?



because he wants something that will go bang every time without spending an extra $200 tuning it. i can't think of how many people i have heard complain at the range that their 1911 doesn't run on jhp ammo or that they had to polish up the feed ramp real good to make it do so.



The smiley says it all.


You have no idea what you're talking about.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:32:20 PM EDT
Fuck Ruger!


CZ-75 or 1911 depending on his ability. Or better still both.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:33:28 PM EDT
i would go revolver
say a 5" S&W 629 with some nice 44 spls in it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:35:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GaryM:
Another for a double action revolver in .357 magnum, preferably stainless. Needs minimal care, very reliable requires little training and very easy to operate in a high stress situation. Also allows practice with inexpensive .38 special ammo and can be loaded with very serious .357 mag rounds for the real thing.



+1

If it is gonna do drawer duty and rarely be shot, revolver is the way to go.

May not have the capacity of a CZ75, but it makes up for this in versatility, being able to pull duty as a SD/HD gun, or a game getter, to cheap practice/plinking (in .357/.38), to animal defense.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:53:38 PM EDT
Ummmmmmm...here's a novel idea....Take him shopping!!! Let Dad pick one!! He'll likely pick the one that he is most familiar with!!

FWIW, .38 revolvers were often issued to aircrew well into the mid 80's. You could only fit so much gear into a survival vest, worn under the parachute straps and seat belts in a fighter's tight cockpit.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:

I first fired a 1911 in Training in the Army - NEVER was issued one - NEVER even Touched one
after that for about 25 years


Next time I picked one up I still remembered how to load and fire the Fool thing




But you didn't roll out of bed out of a deep sleep at zero dark thirty & do this, did you, sir?????? And for the newbie gun owner, that's where the revolver reigns supreme.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:08:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunnyG:
Ummmmmmm...here's a novel idea....Take him shopping!!! Let Dad pick one!!





Doesn't mean he'll make the best choice, IMO. Just as we wouldn't pick a Porche for our first car w/o any driving expereince, we still might prefer the Porche because of how it "felt". Doesn't mean it was the best choice, no?

Keep in mind, he said "minimal training", meaning he may not go to the range once a year, if that. He may need to roll out of bed at zero dark thirty, he may have to clear a stovepipe with two perps shooting at him. None are good situations for a novice, eh? That's why a revolver is the best choice for him. Pull the trigger & nothing happens, pull it again for a fresh round.

My .o2
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:13:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By GunnyG:
Ummmmmmm...here's a novel idea....Take him shopping!!! Let Dad pick one!!





Doesn't mean he'll make the best choice, IMO. Just as we wouldn't pick a Porche for our first car w/o any driving expereince, we still might prefer the Porche because of how it "felt". Doesn't mean it was the best choice, no?

Keep in mind, he said "minimal training", meaning he may not go to the range once a year, if that. He may need to roll out of bed at zero dark thirty, he may have to clear a stovepipe with two perps shooting at him. None are good situations for a novice, eh? That's why a revolver is the best choice for him. Pull the trigger & nothing happens, pull it again for a fresh round.

My .o2



Actually, we were in agreement. I should've pointed out the likelihood that his Dad may have significantly more familiarity/training with a revolver than a semiauto.

Plus, revolvers mean never having to find a misplaced magazine (I suspect that is another reason revolvers were standard issue in aircrew survival vests in the day). You usually have a choice of DA or SA, which may be a plus with aged infirm hands. Those same hands may find grasping and racking a slide more difficult as time passes. A simple combination padlock through the opened frame of the revolver can secure a revolver against unauthorized use, if access is a concern.

If it were me, I'd arrange to let Dad explore his options, before making a decision. Of course, I can supply 1911's as well as Colt and S&W revolvers for comparison .
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:27:21 PM EDT
In the past many military pilots carried .38 revolvers. My recommendation is that you get him a four-inch barrelled .357 revolver. If he is sensitive to recoil, he can load it with .38 Special. Check out the Taurus and Smith model 66's.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:20:20 PM EDT
I just talked with a friend of mine in Alabama and he has 9 different handguns 3 revolvbers 6 autos and I asked him to take my dad to the range the next time he can so that should help. I like the idea of a revolver I have a 38 SW chiefs special thats now my wifes good gun and balanced. Going to do a trigger job when I get back from the desert
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:14:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ffhounddog:

I have a 38 SW chiefs special thats now my wifes good gun and balanced. Going to do a trigger job when I get back from the desert




Not a good idea for a carry gun. An asshole lawyer (redundant) would have a field day with that should you ever end up in court for a shooting lawsuit, sir.

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