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Posted: 12/20/2005 3:08:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 5:37:56 PM EDT by chewbacca]
1. Weapons that malfunctioned:

a) Kimber Hi-Cap, absolute Jam-O-Matic; suffered failure to feed and failure to eject continuously. b) 2 Springfield XD 40 cals; one had light primer strikes and the second unknown, just heard intructor say malfunction a couple of times; I asked the shooter but she said it did not "jam". c) Springfield 1911, many failure to ejects; one empty case turned backwards and rechambered. d) HK USP, don't know what happened but saw shooter in speed drills tap roll rack a few times. e) Gunsite Colt 1911, don't know what happened but I saw him tap roll rack then I asked shooter what happened and he said it "jammed" and that was it. I saw it twice. f) Beretta 92 FS, slide was not going into battery. g) Ruger P90, failure to feed and stovepipes (at least according to the shooter).

2. Weapons that did not malfunction:

a) A different Springfield 1911. b) Glock 21 (mine ). c) Glock 19. d) Springfiled XD Tactical 45 GAP

3. Injuries:

a) All (read ALL) of the 1911 shooters had tape on thier "safety" thumb by about half way through class (some had hot spots while others broke skin)

b) Female shooter got hit by shrapnel in forehead causing bleeding (ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION).

4. Training:

a) Training at Gunsite is top-notch. I thought I could "shoot" before but the techniques I have learned have enlightened me. GET TRAINING!


I am sure I will think of other stuff later but for now I thought I would share this information.

Just incase anyone is wondering I finished "Marksmen 1".
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:38:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 3:38:43 PM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]
nice report.....

thanks

~how many attended? ratio of HG models?

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:52:23 PM EDT

Beretta 92 FS, slide was not going into battery


happens a lot on M9's when they get dirty. a lot
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
nice report.....

thanks

~how many attended? ratio of HG models?




That is all. There were twelve in attendance.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:29:31 PM EDT
Who were your instructors?

Marksman 1 ain't bad. Thats what my dad got in a 250.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:31:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 5:36:57 PM EDT by chewbacca]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Who were your instructors?

Marksman 1 ain't bad. Thats what my dad got in a 250.



Chris Weare
Jack Shattuck
Stuart White
Scott Burgess

did you shoot expert?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:39:14 PM EDT
Yeah, I shot expert. My brother did too. Ed Head and Lamont Kintsel were our instructors, we had 9 students in our class.

Chris Weare was an instructor for the 223 class I took.

Sorry if it sounded like my comment about an M1 rating sounded like criticism, it was actually a compliment. It takes a pretty good shooter with the right mindset to get an M1 rating. I took M1 in 556 and M in 223.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:43:34 PM EDT
Hey no worries. I think I did very well. Did you shoot your school drills in 14 degree weather?

If not, then maybe you should give that a try.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:44:10 PM EDT
Forgot to mention what I consider to the the strongest point of Gunsites Program of Instruction. Most schools take a Joe off the street and in three days try to teach him safe, accurate shooting, manipulations, one handed shit, weak handed shit, etc. Gunsite doesn't try to teach you any one handed or weak handed skills in the first five days. So while you might learn a skill to practice at another school, at Gunsite you do that skill enough to make it muscle memory, in one week.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:47:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Hey no worries. I think I did very well. Did you shoot your school drills in 14 degree weather?

If not, then maybe you should give that a try.



Ask Ed Head which was colder....your class or the Jan 3-7 2005 250. It was 20-40 degrees and a combination of snow, rain, and sleet. I had a BAD case of strep throat--by the time I got home it had moved to my lungs and become Pneumonia.

Note to self.....do not go farther north than Phoenix during winter! I will be in Phoenix in January though. Gonna work on my tan...
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:50:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Hey no worries. I think I did very well. Did you shoot your school drills in 14 degree weather?

If not, then maybe you should give that a try.



Ask Ed Head which was colder....your class or the Jan 3-7 2005 250. It was 20-40 degrees and a combination of snow, rain, and sleet. I had a BAD case of strep throat--by the time I got home it had moved to my lungs and become Pneumonia.

Note to self.....do not go farther north than Phoenix during winter! I will be in Phoenix in January though. Gonna work on my tan...





Awesome, so you have experienced the AZ cold. I still talk to people who think that I live in "desert" and don't believe that it snows here. Is it not different shooting in cold though! Damn.

We did not have the precip, but the temp was there. Actually, if it snowed it would have been warmer because of the cloud cover.

How do you afford so many classes?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:05:16 PM EDT
Might I add that the results of the jams & problems don't really reflect the general performances of those brands & models? We don't know the ammo used nor the maintenance skills/practices of the gun owners.

At least none broke...................
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:09:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
How do you afford so many classes?



I work 60-70 hrs. a week in the summers, had some money saved from back when I worked full time, and I live in modest housing while I am at school. I've only taken three classes though. Training is addictive--I don't consider myself well trained at ALL. Hoping to take more classes at the end of next summer.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:14:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:55:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 8:02:24 PM EDT by chewbacca]

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Might I add that the results of the jams & problems don't really reflect the general performances of those brands & models? We don't know the ammo used nor the maintenance skills/practices of the gun owners.

At least none broke...................



+1



Understood. Just thought I would tell what I saw.


None the less, it did give me faith in my Glock. My 21 has had an unknown thousand through it with varying degrees of maintenance and it has never failed to go bang; ever, regardless of ammo.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:06:56 PM EDT
CJ, what were your school drills?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:12:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
CJ, what were your school drills?



Head shot at three yards, prone at 25, kneeling at 15, etc. I actually can't remember the exact ones, but they are probably the same ones you did. I did well on them--I got better hits than most, and was faster than most--well within the required time.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:23:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
1. Weapons that malfunctioned:

a) Kimber Hi-Cap, absolute Jam-O-Matic; suffered failure to feed and failure to eject continuously. b) 2 Springfield XD 40 cals; one had light primer strikes and the second unknown, just heard intructor say malfunction a couple of times; I asked the shooter but she said it did not "jam". c) Springfield 1911, many failure to ejects; one empty case turned backwards and rechambered. d) HK USP, don't know what happened but saw shooter in speed drills tap roll rack a few times. e) Gunsite Colt 1911, don't know what happened but I saw him tap roll rack then I asked shooter what happened and he said it "jammed" and that was it. I saw it twice. f) Beretta 92 FS, slide was not going into battery. g) Ruger P90, failure to feed and stovepipes (at least according to the shooter).

2. Weapons that did not malfunction:

a) A different Springfield 1911. b) Glock 21 (mine ). c) Glock 19. d) Springfiled XD Tactical 45 GAP




Interesting. I'm surprised the Glock 21 performed so well. I have owned two and they have not been that realiable for me. I probably get 2 or 3 failures to feed in every 1000 rounds fired. Thats better than my 1911, but no where near as good as my Glock 17 which has never malfunctioned.

My equipment evaluation sytem for training classes is disqualify any weapon that malfunctioned, then rate the remaining by class standing. #1 always seems to be a Glock 9mm or a steel framed 1911A1.
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