User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/27/2022 8:10:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just an update, Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I returned the firearm back to the dealer at a significant loss. Quote HistoryQuoted: Just an update, Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I returned the firearm back to the dealer at a significant loss. Sorry to hear it ended that way. If anyone noticed, Yankee Marshal posted a new S&W video last night on YouTube. Although I find him sometimes annoying; He is spot on this time. You mean this one? .... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PUQZUAb6mLo |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2022 12:56:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry to hear it ended that way. You mean this one? .... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PUQZUAb6mLo That's the one....Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2022 5:37:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Same response I got from them when I contacted them about the horrible trigger in my, then brand new, M&P40 1.0 as well as the super slick grip. They had never heard of anyone having problems with the trigger or the grip
 despite the countless reviews online as well as all the people who I read that sent theirs back for that same thing. They reminded me that any stippling I did to the grip would void my warranty as a nice bonus.I had zero confidence in them fixing it and the 6-8 week wait time wasn't worth it. I bought an Apex trigger kit and Hogue grip for it and fixed it myself. I really like the ergonomics of the S&W guns but I won't deal with them anymore. Would love to see Walther introduce a 10mm. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2022 4:47:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I was curious if the 4.6" was a safe bet, but apparently it shares the same garbage design as the 4" model. I just watched a video by "The right to arm bears". Wow!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2022 5:28:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was curious if the 4.6" was a safe bet, but apparently it shares the same garbage design as the 4" model. I just watched a video by "The right to arm bears". Wow! A sample size of 2. The gentleman in that video used poor shooting technique and I would bet those are his reloads and not factory ammo. I hate to hear you took a huge loss on yours as they are actually pretty good guns. I have about 500 rds through my 4.6 and not one single malfunction. 400 or so of those are my 180gr JHP loads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2022 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A sample size of 2. The gentleman in that video used poor shooting technique and I would bet those are his reloads and not factory ammo. I hate to hear you took a huge loss on yours as they are actually pretty good guns. I have about 500 rds through my 4.6 and not one single malfunction. 400 or so of those are my 180gr JHP loads Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was curious if the 4.6" was a safe bet, but apparently it shares the same garbage design as the 4" model. I just watched a video by "The right to arm bears". Wow! A sample size of 2. The gentleman in that video used poor shooting technique and I would bet those are his reloads and not factory ammo. I hate to hear you took a huge loss on yours as they are actually pretty good guns. I have about 500 rds through my 4.6 and not one single malfunction. 400 or so of those are my 180gr JHP loads Same here. My 4.6 has been 10% reliable. I quickly swapped out the factory recoil spring for a 22# Wolff spring before heading into hit 10mm handloads. I’m over 300 rounds now without a malfunction during normal shooting. I was able to induce a “limp wrist” type malfunction pretty easily by intentionally shooting it one handed with a very weak grip. A proper 1 handed grip? No issues. A proper 2handed grip? No issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2022 7:38:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was curious if the 4.6" was a safe bet, but apparently it shares the same garbage design as the 4" model. I just watched a video by "The right to arm bears". Wow! I have yet to have a malfunction with my 4.6". |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/23/2022 9:03:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A sample size of 2. The gentleman in that video used poor shooting technique and I would bet those are his reloads and not factory ammo. I hate to hear you took a huge loss on yours as they are actually pretty good guns. I have about 500 rds through my 4.6 and not one single malfunction. 400 or so of those are my 180gr JHP loads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was curious if the 4.6" was a safe bet, but apparently it shares the same garbage design as the 4" model. I just watched a video by "The right to arm bears". Wow! A sample size of 2. The gentleman in that video used poor shooting technique and I would bet those are his reloads and not factory ammo. I hate to hear you took a huge loss on yours as they are actually pretty good guns. I have about 500 rds through my 4.6 and not one single malfunction. 400 or so of those are my 180gr JHP loads. I watched the video. My observations: 1. Strange grip he uses when shooting. If he’s not developing a proper grip, that may be part of his issue. 2. He’s using a factory recoil spring assembly. 3. Never stated what ammo he’s using, is it factory or handloads? I don’t understand any of the last but where it sounds like he’s eating he’ll polish the trigger bar to somehow improve reliability? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 10:46:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Chuke's Outdoor Adventures just posted a video today. Looks like mags dropping out unintentionally can be added to the failures...Did I mention that the head of customer service has yet to respond to my email. LOL. She must be busy with CS issues.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 1:49:59 PM EDT
[#10]
It seems none of these YouTube shooters use a proper grip nor can they figure out a simple mod like an increased weight recoil spring. Maybe they should come join this forum, because almost every poster on here has upgraded the recoil spring and been good to go.
I'm happy to have spent the extra $30 for a Wolff recoil spring and rod to give the ergonomics of the M&P in a reliable 10mm pistol. I think all these problems trace back to slide behavior under recoil. S&W used springs that would be reliable for a slide with the increased mass of a RDS shooting low powered factory ammo. Because that's what most people shoot. I think people are forgetting about the extra mass of the RDS. I'm willing to bet the mass of the RDS was a consideration in the design process at S&W. All the problems I'm seeing are for people shooting bare slides with factory recoil spring but with full power ammo. A 22# recoil spring and a Holosun RDS has given me a gun that's been GTG for a couple hundred rounds, with 100 of those being "real" 10mm. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 3:40:05 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm not interested in a gun that has to be gripped a certain way to be reliable.
There are plenty of 10mm guns that run fine with the factory recoil spring. An RMR weighs 1 ounce. I doubt that's tipping the scales. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 3:48:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not interested in a gun that has to be gripped a certain way to be reliable. There are plenty of 10mm guns that run fine with the factory recoil spring. An RMR weighs 1 ounce. I doubt that's tipping the scales. My M&P 10mm works fine with the factory recoil spring. It doesn't need changing. Neither have I ever accidentally or inadvertently released the magazine. I don't know the people who made the video. I know me. I trust my own experiences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 3:54:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My M&P 10mm works fine with the factory recoil spring. It doesn't need changing. Neither have I ever accidentally or inadvertently released the magazine. I don't know the people who made the video. I know me. I trust my own experiences. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 4:26:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there's nothing wrong with that. Other people obviously have different experiences. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My M&P 10mm works fine with the factory recoil spring. It doesn't need changing. Neither have I ever accidentally or inadvertently released the magazine. I don't know the people who made the video. I know me. I trust my own experiences. All these people seem to have YouTube channels looking for views. YouTubers thrive off controversy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 4:31:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And there's nothing wrong with that. Other people obviously have different experiences. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My M&P 10mm works fine with the factory recoil spring. It doesn't need changing. Neither have I ever accidentally or inadvertently released the magazine. I don't know the people who made the video. I know me. I trust my own experiences. As Aero said, those "other people" are fishing for YouTube views. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 5:00:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As Aero said, those "other people" are fishing for YouTube views. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 5:15:49 PM EDT
[#17]
When S&W puts out a gun with design flaws, they do eventually update them. I’ll get one some day, but I’m not oozing confidence in the 10mm variants at this point.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2022 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what's the OP fishing for? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As Aero said, those "other people" are fishing for YouTube views. I don't know. He got rid of the gun on page 1. I'm well aware of early adopter problems with any new design. And I'm in the camp that these pistols are probably under-sprung for full powered loads. But we have a multitude of posters who have had success with the gun, some with and some without a spring change. However, I went and found the post on the Smith and Wesson forum referenced in the video. After reading that thread and following some other links, I do think there are people experiencing issues with 220 gr Underwood ammo, possibly from frame flex. And, like the op, they aren't receiving very good CS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 12:22:21 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm not fishing. I was just contemplating if the 4.6" was just as flawed as the 4" model. There is a new part 2 to the Right to arm bears video. He was shooting Magtech and Remington. He polished his feed ramp and discovered 2 more deficiencies! His mag dropped and live rounds ejected on two separate occasions!! I was actually worried that this guy was going to have an OOB kaboom since the pistol is having issues and he is forcing the slide closed. If he misses this, he can have a catastrophic failure.
He said that he believes S&W will fix everything when he sends it back for warranty. I know better. I'll definitely pass on the 4.6". Maybe in a couple years S&W will have a good functioning 10mm, time will tell. Currently, the design deserves the title "TURD" |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 7:13:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not fishing. I was just contemplating if the 4.6" was just as flawed as the 4" model. There is a new part 2 to the Right to arm bears video. He was shooting Magtech and Remington. He polished his feed ramp and discovered 2 more deficiencies! His mag dropped and live rounds ejected on two separate occasions!! I was actually worried that this guy was going to have an OOB kaboom since the pistol is having issues and he is forcing the slide closed. If he misses this, he can have a catastrophic failure. He said that he believes S&W will fix everything when he sends it back for warranty. I know better. I'll definitely pass on the 4.6". Maybe in a couple years S&W will have a good functioning 10mm, time will tell. Currently, the design deserves the title "TURD" In all my years buying and shooting guns, including half a dozen m&p's, I've yet to ever get a turd/lemon. Maybe I'm lucky. I can count on one hand the number of actual weapon malfunctions I've had, total, with those m&p's across many thousands of rounds. Some people suck and some people just have bad luck i guess. First thing i did with my 4.6 before firing one round was swap the action spring because i already knew it was too light for warm 10mm. Zero malfunctions so far. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 1:06:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all my years buying and shooting guns, including half a dozen m&p's, I've yet to ever get a turd/lemon. Maybe I'm lucky. I can count on one hand the number of actual weapon malfunctions I've had, total, with those m&p's across many thousands of rounds. Some people suck and some people just have bad luck i guess. First thing i did with my 4.6 before firing one round was swap the action spring because i already knew it was too light for warm 10mm. Zero malfunctions so far. I think the under-strength factory recoil spring in these pistols is the source of much of the problems being reported online. Among this forum, the Smith and Wesson forum, YouTube, Reddit and a few other places, I'm seeing a trend: Some users are keeping the pistol factory spec and are experiencing problems, usually a failure to feed but in some cases a dropped magazine. These issues are more prevalent with heavier bullets and hotter loads. Some users are swapping the factory spring for some sort of heavier, aftermarket and subsequently experience far fewer or even no malfunctions. When mentioning the change in recoil spring, some responses have been along the lines of "this gun should run 100% out of the box, I'm not spending any money on aftermarket parts and S&W needs to make it right". I don't disagree with the principal, but I think realistically this opinion is going to mean a lot of unhappiness and a long wait. Meanwhile, the users willing to shell out $30 or so (less than the cost of a single box of factory ammo), are shooting away and seem generally pleased. I'm in this group. I don't absolve S&W of their responsibility. They should have shipped a pistol that would function reliably with the stoutest SAAMI spec 10mm on the market, which would be Underwood or Buffalo Bore heavy hardcast loads. If this meant out of the box pistols might have issues with soft loaded bulk 10mm (aka the .40 loads in a 10mm case), then I'd simply have marketed the gun as designed for "full power 10mm loads!" and then offered for sale an aftermarket recoil spring assembly that was lighter and describe this as "for range use with light training loads". |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 2:32:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all my years buying and shooting guns, including half a dozen m&p's, I've yet to ever get a turd/lemon. Maybe I'm lucky. I can count on one hand the number of actual weapon malfunctions I've had, total, with those m&p's across many thousands of rounds. Some people suck and some people just have bad luck i guess. First thing i did with my 4.6 before firing one round was swap the action spring because i already knew it was too light for warm 10mm. Zero malfunctions so far. As a LE instructor, I can agree many shooters can introduce malfunctions on the MOST reliable firearms. I have seen bad samples from almost every manufacturer. I have extra 24lb springs that would have been swapped if S&W did properly address the pistol. Just curious...will your M&P 10mm fire out of battery? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 2:44:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curious...will your M&P 10mm fire out of battery? I can wedge something in there and find out, how far out of battery? Actual brass showing, or just not fully locked? -the striker travel is fairly short and it is cocked by the action spring forcing the slide into battery. If the slide is too far rearward there will be little or no force on the striker. Gen 1 MP45s could hang just out if battery is the slide was released slowly, just like following the charging handle on an AR. The balance of the striker and action spring forces was insufficient. -the striker block has to be engaged, if the slide is too far rearward it will not let the striker fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 3:03:59 PM EDT
[#24]
I would've checked mine with a snap cap or dummy round, but 1/8" out of battery would be a ballpark.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2022 3:22:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Well it looks like a blind squirrel can find a nut! Springfield Armory XDM Elite OSP 4.5"! My ADHD just kicked into overdrive...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 10:03:30 AM EDT
[#26]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 10:37:11 AM EDT
[#27]
I have a stock 4 inch that has thus far performed flawlessly with heavy 10mm loads. Planning on some range time at some point today to give it an intense workout.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 5:06:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also related... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173511/Features-320xten-2_jpg-2397607.JPG  |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also related... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173511/Features-320xten-2_jpg-2397607.JPG Two words: Ug Lee. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 8:14:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Mo’ related ...
Grand Power 5” P40L: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-grand-power-p40l-10mm-pistol/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 8:30:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sportsman's Warehouse had them to order online and pick up in the store, but the sales tax queered the deal* and I aborted. Sportsman's sent me a coupon code for 10% off but when I tried it it said it wasn't for firearms. Go figure. It's disappointing to hear the gun doesn't run, and it really sucks you had to waste that ammo to find out. The gritty triggers seems to be common complaint but the other stuff is not common from the limited reviews I've read. Call S&W and see what they have to say for themselves- I bet they try to make it right. Light and no primer strikes tells me there's something really wrong there. * I used this phrase, "queered the deal" on another gun forum and got a warning for offensive language Yes, some complete no-man-card pussy punk reported me to the mods because he was offended. Since when that phrase have anything whatsoever to do with gaiety?Similar thing happened to me, I put one in my cart but then found out they won't ship to an FFL if you are within so many miles of a store. I wasn't driving 50 miles one way to pick it up. Next day I get a coupon for 10% off, but not good for guns .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 8:34:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sounds like you had two separate issues going on at the same time. #1 is problems feeding, most likely due to the recoil spring and probably fixable by moving to a heavier spring #2 is the dead trigger and light strikes. Something is wrong with the FCG in this pistol. Hopefully S&W addresses the issues with this pistol promptly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just to answer a few questions... Yes, I inspected the pistol before and after shooting, as the feed ramp was perfect, and all was lubricated. Regarding the ammo, I stopped after the FMJ failed which was produced in 2018. I had no intention of burning through more expensive rounds. After reviewing some Youtube videos (Turkeys Opinion, and a few others) I am seeing that the compact model is experiencing failures not observed in the 4.6". I decided on the 4" due to already having a g40, g20, g27, SA XD elite 3.8 and two 1911's Colt & RI. I've only had issues with feeding on the Glock 20 and solved it with a 22# RSA. I suspect a heavier spring may be needed in the S&W, but the trigger issues are another story. I suspect the gritty trigger will break in but light strikes are an issue. A dead trigger is an even bigger issue. I have seen this before on my S&W bodyguard that I very briefly owned and sold after it came back from warranty repair with unresolved issues with light strikes. It sounds like you had two separate issues going on at the same time. #1 is problems feeding, most likely due to the recoil spring and probably fixable by moving to a heavier spring #2 is the dead trigger and light strikes. Something is wrong with the FCG in this pistol. Hopefully S&W addresses the issues with this pistol promptly. There is a 7 or so page thread on the 10mm and the consensus it that it needs either a 22 or 24lb spring. They aren't available yet but the wolf springs and guide rod for the 45 fits perfectly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 9:26:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a 7 or so page thread on the 10mm and the consensus it that it needs either a 22 or 24lb spring. They aren't available yet but the wolf springs and guide rod for the 45 fits perfectly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just to answer a few questions... Yes, I inspected the pistol before and after shooting, as the feed ramp was perfect, and all was lubricated. Regarding the ammo, I stopped after the FMJ failed which was produced in 2018. I had no intention of burning through more expensive rounds. After reviewing some Youtube videos (Turkeys Opinion, and a few others) I am seeing that the compact model is experiencing failures not observed in the 4.6". I decided on the 4" due to already having a g40, g20, g27, SA XD elite 3.8 and two 1911's Colt & RI. I've only had issues with feeding on the Glock 20 and solved it with a 22# RSA. I suspect a heavier spring may be needed in the S&W, but the trigger issues are another story. I suspect the gritty trigger will break in but light strikes are an issue. A dead trigger is an even bigger issue. I have seen this before on my S&W bodyguard that I very briefly owned and sold after it came back from warranty repair with unresolved issues with light strikes. It sounds like you had two separate issues going on at the same time. #1 is problems feeding, most likely due to the recoil spring and probably fixable by moving to a heavier spring #2 is the dead trigger and light strikes. Something is wrong with the FCG in this pistol. Hopefully S&W addresses the issues with this pistol promptly. There is a 7 or so page thread on the 10mm and the consensus it that it needs either a 22 or 24lb spring. They aren't available yet but the wolf springs and guide rod for the 45 fits perfectly. Agreed. My 4.6 M&P 10mm has a Wolff guide rod and 22 lb doting in it right now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2022 9:52:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No comment on the gun, but I never heard that phrase. You from England or something? Suck a fag on your smoke break? Edit: not trying for a snide GD response, just stating that your phrase may not be as common as you think. With maybe a touch of humor at the end. "Queered the deal" isnt common, but its not uncommon either. "queer" didnt always means homosexuals, the word and its useage are a lot older. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2022 3:44:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Ran some heavy loads through my stock 4" inch and not one hiccup. Everything I have fed it works. It is slowly becoming my favorite pistol to shoot. If I can find a good holster for it, I am ready to carry it when outdoors.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2022 10:11:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: I was hoping to do a full review of my new Compact 10mm; however, the trip to the range was cut short after the first box(50 rounds) of Underwood 180gr fmj. I stopped short of hollow points and cast bullets due to the issues presented. 50 total rounds fired: 16 rounds failed to feed 6 rounds failed to fire, light strikes observed 2 rounds failed to fire, no strikes at all 2 occasions dead trigger 52% Failure rate!! WTF!  Additionally, the gritty trigger is absolutely the worst I've felt, bar none. Sorry for all the troubles. Just wanted to add, it's not just the 10mm with shitty triggers, I handled 3 different 9mm at my LGS, triggers are garbage. I called S&W CS but got hung up on after waiting 15 minutes. Luckily for them (most intentionally) it was exactly 5pm; so upon callback they were closed! The FFL will be sending this back to S&W for me since losing over $200 on a used return for two hours of ownership isn't super attractive... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2022 9:49:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been buying ammo and shooting all through COVID and I've not run into any QC issues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is why I'm not buying any factory ammo right now. I'm reading about manufacturing quality control generally going downhill across various sectors during the covid period and it's going to be a while until things are reliable again. Same ??????? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/2/2022 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#38]
I would have tried another box of ammo. My buddy had a 50% failure rate due to bad primers with 10mm Underwood 200gr. in his Glock 40. His gun runs great with everything else he has tried.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File