User Panel
[#1]
Quoted:
You are seriously going to bring up bore axis and give Beretta a when speaking in favor of Sig... Wow, you may want to break out a caliper and compare the two... It does not matter what weapon system you bring up, some .mil/.gov is going to claim it's a POS due to dealing with worn out poorly maintained government inventory. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I had to carry the M9- no way I would ever pay money for one no matter how fancy they make it. Bore axis? My P229 legion has no finish issues whatsoever. I would love to get P226 SAO Legion to go with. It does not matter what weapon system you bring up, some .mil/.gov is going to claim it's a POS due to dealing with worn out poorly maintained government inventory. As to the bore axis issue; it reminds me of the people who run to the doctor after reading an article on some health issue- they will it into being. You aren't going to get me to believe anyone can tell the difference in bore height between any of the modern semi-autos. |
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[#2]
Quoted:
...and someone who gets butt-hurt will claim you said something you didn't. I in no way, shape, or form EVER said or implied the Berretta was a POS. I said I don't like them and wouldn't buy one. I also recognize everyone is different and what I like or dislike is preference, not rule. As to the bore axis issue; it reminds me of the people who run to the doctor after reading an article on some health issue- they will it into being. You aren't going to get me to believe anyone can tell the difference in bore height between any of the modern semi-autos. View Quote I agree bore axis is blown way out of proportion. |
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[#3]
It's sometimes fun to read these "Which one would you choose" threads. Fact is that is it just personal preference and nothing more
I have tried to like Sigs, having bought and sold four of them over the years. I have had a P228, P229, P220 and most recently a P320. I have tried hard to like them. But, I just can't. I don't like the feel of them in my hand, nor the thickness of them, nor how the shoot. I kept the P320 for 18 months and shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it. It had to go back to Sig since it shot waaaaayyyyy silly high out of the box. They replaced the sights under warranty and it then shot fine. Mine was an early model and the trigger would pinch a big bloody blister on my trigger finger in less than a box of ammo. I fixed that with an Apex flat trigger. And I continued to pump hundreds of rounds through it, trying to like and get used to it. I eventually came to realize that no matter how much dry fire time or live fire time I spent with the gun I just didn't like it. So I sold it, just a couple of months before the whole uproar occurred over the 320 firing when dropped. I can't say much bad about the four Sigs I've owned except they just aren't for me. On the other hand I've bought three Berettas since 1991 and still own all three. For me, the choice is easily the Beretta as the best gun. For me. Your own choice may be different and that's OK. It's just personal preference and nothing more, no matter what the Sig fans or Beretta fans may argue. Pick one and enjoy the shooting. |
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[#4]
The finish issues on the Legion really concern me, and based on the posts (some backed up with pics that look real hard to fake), I feel it's real.
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[#5]
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The finish issues on the Legion really concern me, and based on the posts (some backed up with pics that look real hard to fake), I feel it's real. View Quote |
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[#6]
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It's not just the finish issues, but rather SIGs QC in general these days. Current production SIG firearms are not held to the same standard as they were 10 years ago. Back when SIG was actually concerned with producing a quality product instead of offering the same product in 20+ different finish options to appeal to the skinny jean wearing sexually confused hipsters... View Quote |
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[#7]
Quoted:
It's sometimes fun to read these "Which one would you choose" threads. Fact is that is it just personal preference and nothing more View Quote I flew cargo jets all over the world for my 20 in the Air Force and the biggest thing I learned was different isn't wrong, it's just... different. There are some cultural oddities out there that would make your skin crawl, and we have some they don't understand. The whole thing about these preference threads is how some people take it as an insult if you don't agree with their preference (not you in particular, but how they generally go). Back in the late 70s early 80s I'd see kids on the school bus wanting to start a fist fight because some kid didn't like their favorite rock band. Somewhat reminds me of how people react to preference threads. Anyway, I like the Legion series, and right now I'm weighing the pros and cons selling off my S&W 1076 and dozen mags to preorder the P220 Legion in 10mm. Berretta does nothing for me unless I happen to watch Blackhawk Down; then I think I might want an M9, but an hour or so afterwards it wears off. |
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[#8]
Neither the beretta nor the Sig will be everyone's cup of tea.
TLDR:If you have not put a ton of rounds through a Sig P series gun I would skip the legion and get the brigadier. I always carried plastic striker fired guns but about a year and a half ago I fell in love with the Sig m11a1(basically a p229) and it became my everyday carry gun. A few weeks ago I picked up a p229 legion as my second sig and it is a significant improvement over my m11a1, but unless you have spent allot of time and put a bunch of rounds through a sig p series gun you probably won't notice the subtle changes that make the legion guns great nor benefit from those changes. The trigger is excellent for DA/SA even compared to the already great sig SRT. The Legion trigger guard and frame undercuts coupled with the low profile legion grips and p224 slide release give me an excellent grip and remove the slide lock issues I have had with full size sig slide releases. Front slide serrations have never been my thing but the legion serrations seem to work well to manipulate the slide from the front. The legions sights seem to be sig night lite sights with an added daylight visible front sight. Another plus for me is the p229 legion taking the same magazines as my m11a1 so I didn't have to buy 20 more magazines. If you have not put a ton of rounds through a P series gun I would skip the legion and get the brigadier. The legion benefits will be insignificant or non existent to someone not intimately familiar with the base model sig guns, that coupled with the price and finish issues would keep me from recommending Legion guns to anyone who has not already invested allot of time and rounds into the sig P series platforms. If you have a ton of time and rounds through the p226 and are willing to prototype the Legion PVT finish then I would say get the legion as they have made excellent but subtle improvements that will make it worth it. |
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[#9]
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I like them both and have carried an M9. I own a Sig P229 Legion. I'll probably be getting a p226 sao in the future. The Army has turned me off to the M9. I've seen quite a few broken trigger springs and chipped barrels where the slide doesn't cover the barrel. They are beat to shit over years and years so take it with a gram of salt. They will both serve you well. I just prefer the Sig. View Quote Just get the wolf INS trigger spring mod, no more broken trigger return springs. |
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[#10]
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I truly wish beretta would make a SAO version with a thumb safety View Quote Attached File |
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[#11]
Quoted:
They've made quite a few SAO/Thumb safety guns over the years. This one was a few hundred more than a Brig Tac, but has a steel frame and enhanced checkering to go along with the single action and thumb safety. Plus they only built 1915 of them. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/209554/Centennial_1a-338214.JPG View Quote |
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[#12]
Am I correct in thinking that the standard 92FS is an aluminum-framed gun while the 92G Brig. is a steel-framed gun?
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[#13]
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[#14]
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[#15]
The only all steel 92s to my knowledge is the special edition Centurion models.
Are you really wanting an all steel 92? The alloy frame production models are already very soft shooters... |
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[#16]
Many of the special edition models like the Centennial shown above, the Billenium and the appropriately named Steel had steel frames, otherwise standard production models all used aluminum frames. The Brig Tac frame is aluminum.
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[#19]
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[#20]
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Just not sure I'm sold on that Legion finish. View Quote I think it's just a bad batch of them that got out. I have read that the Legion PVD is supposed to exactly the same as Sigs nitron finish with grey coloring instead of black. The M9A3 is on my short list. Especially after seeing that one guys post after Beretta fixed it up for him and shot the 25yard test target. |
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[#22]
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[#23]
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[#24]
I love my Berettas, but bought a 229 Legion for my 40th bday present. The day I went in to buy it, the shop had just received three WC 92 BrigTacs. I held both in my hand and it was so hard to not go with the Beretta, but I wanted something a bit different. I love my Legion. So far, 960 rounds with no failures. I keep it in my safe with a dehumidifier and have carried it, briefly, exactly one time, and it gets cleaned after every range trip. Haven't noticed any rust, but I've been taking care of it. I'll be following this stuff closely now though!
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[#25]
92G.
My M9 with g mod and d spring is my best shooting pistol. Sig quality has really gone downhill in recent years. I have no interest in a new Sig. |
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[#26]
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[#28]
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[#29]
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[#30]
Quoted:
What? Reality has gone on vacation. View Quote From what I see the standard P226 with SigLite night sights are roughly $875 and the Legion is $1,225. That’s a $350 price increase, which translates to 40% additional cost for the Legion features. Depending on what your looking for (cosmetics vs utility) the value is questionable. PVD finish - Mostly cosmetic with well documented QC issues. Extended bevertail - Not needed with the high bore axis, side bite is a non-issue. Added footprint with no real gain. Front serrations - Personal preference G10 grips - A definite improment over OEM panels, but still thicker than E2s Gray guns trigger - Definate improvement over the standard trigger, not so much over the short reach. Low profile controls - Personal preference In the end only the buyer can make the decision if it’s worth it or not. Same thing goes for the Wilson 92G. I kinda lump the Legion series in with the Zev “Gucci Glocks”... They look cool and are expensive, but don’t really do anything special. If it were my money, I would choose the Wilson Combat 92G over the Legion in a heartbeat. I would rather have pistol worked over by a reputable smith like WC than a factory semi-custom offered by a quality control train-wreck like Sig. YMMV |
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[#31]
Quoted:
Has it? From what I see the standard P226 with SigLite night sights are roughly $875 and the Legion is $1,225. That’s a $350 price increase, which translates to 40% additional cost for the Legion features. Depending on what your looking for (cosmetics vs utility) the value is questionable. PVD finish - Mostly cosmetic with well documented QC issues. Extended bevertail - Not needed with the high bore axis, side bite is a non-issue. Added footprint with no real gain. Front serrations - Personal preference G10 grips - A definite improment over OEM panels, but still thicker than E2s Gray guns trigger - Definate improvement over the standard trigger, not so much over the short reach. Low profile controls - Personal preference In the end only the buyer can make the decision if it’s worth it or not. Same thing goes for the Wilson 92G. I kinda lump the Legion series in with the Zev “Gucci Glocks”... They look cool and are expensive, but don’t really do anything special. If it were my money, I would choose the Wilson Combat 92G over the Legion in a heartbeat. I would rather have pistol worked over by a reputable smith like WC than a factory semi-custom offered by a quality control train-wreck like Sig. YMMV View Quote |
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[#32]
Quoted:
Has it? From what I see the standard P226 with SigLite night sights are roughly $875 and the Legion is $1,225. That’s a $350 price increase, which translates to 40% additional cost for the Legion features. Depending on what your looking for (cosmetics vs utility) the value is questionable. PVD finish - Mostly cosmetic with well documented QC issues. - Elite has nitride slide Extended bevertail - Not needed with the high bore axis, side bite is a non-issue. Added footprint with no real gain. - Can get on Elite Front serrations - Personal preference - Can get on Elite G10 grips - A definite improment over OEM panels, but still thicker than E2s - Enhanced Elite has the E2 Gray guns trigger - Definate improvement over the standard trigger, not so much over the short reach. - Elite has SRT Low profile controls - Personal preference In the end only the buyer can make the decision if it’s worth it or not. Same thing goes for the Wilson 92G. I kinda lump the Legion series in with the Zev “Gucci Glocks”... They look cool and are expensive, but don’t really do anything special. If it were my money, I would choose the Wilson Combat 92G over the Legion in a heartbeat. I would rather have pistol worked over by a reputable smith like WC than a factory semi-custom offered by a quality control train-wreck like Sig. YMMV View Quote |
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[#33]
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[#34]
Quoted:
Does anybody know if Wilson offers additional rear sight options? Not 100% sure I'd like the style rear sight they put on as standard, it looks like a low light sight? http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Beretta_Wilson_Combat_92G_Brigadier_Tactical_9mm_Combat_Tactical_Pistol_Jeff_Gurwitch_DefenseReview.com_DR_Pic_G.jpg View Quote Attached File |
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[#35]
Quoted:
Does anybody know if Wilson offers additional rear sight options? Not 100% sure I'd like the style rear sight they put on as standard, it looks like a low light sight? http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Beretta_Wilson_Combat_92G_Brigadier_Tactical_9mm_Combat_Tactical_Pistol_Jeff_Gurwitch_DefenseReview.com_DR_Pic_G.jpg View Quote |
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[#37]
Update:
Ended up ordering a Beretta / Wilson 92G! Should have it in a couple weeks. |
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[#38]
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[#39]
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