Posted: 4/7/2017 10:56:36 PM EDT
I'm right handed, left eyed dominant. All of my shots tend to go just a bit left. It's nothing I'm too concerned with, but it's extremely difficult to land a shot point of aim. I've talked to a few people about it, and I'm almost always given the advice that I should shoot left handed. I'm not opposed to learning to shoot left handed. In fact, when I shoulder a rifle right handed and use my right eye to sight I generally get a sort of double image. As far as pistols go it's not terrible. The image I've attached is a BT-5B at ranges from 5 to 25 yards. My question is, is it worth taking the time to learn all of the muscle memory from scratch or should I just deal with it? I'm sure I anticipated and pulled a few shots here and there and I'm not the king of sight alignment.
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The easiest thing to do is simply cant the pistol so that your sights line up with your dominant eye. That's what I do.
ETA: rifles are harder. I found the EOTech circle dot helps for carbine, red dots alone turn into slightly skewed dashes for me, but the circle dot really helps my eye focus. With scopes I just have to close both eyes for a second if my right eye starts fading. When I was shopping for a relatively inexpensive scope for my RAR, I tried one with BDC and initially couldn't see the BDC dots. Even asked the guy at the counter if he handed me the right one! |
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If you want to continue shooting right handed, simply tuck your chin to your right shoulder, allowing you to sight the handgun with your left (dominant) eye.
I am the same cross-dominance but grew up shooting long guns (scoped) left handed. So, I draw and shoot handguns left handed. Quicker to obtain a sight picture.. at least for me. |
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Aligning sights is aligning sights regardless of which eye you use. I've been crossdominant (right hand/left eye) for years and never had an issue with centering shots until recently as my vision has worsened. It has to do with how my eyes resolve the sight picture. I would either look at your vision or trigger control.
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Aligning sights is aligning sights regardless of which eye you use. I've been crossdominant (right hand/left eye) for years and never had an issue with centering shots until recently as my vision has worsened. It has to do with how my eyes resolve the sight picture. I would either look at your vision or trigger control. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2261/YYX432-082616-182966.JPG |
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I shoot for two scenarios.
Close range CCW and 25 plus yard hunting shots. For longer distance I close my left eye. That works great For CCW, I get the largest white dot sight I can find. That helps but I practice point shooting the most at 15 feet. I practice that the most and an keep 90% of my shots in the 7 ring of a B-27 target rapid fire. |
Your groups are reasonably small so that I think you can shoot. The farther left and farther lower shots out of your central concentrations of hits are yanks/flinch/humping a bit. Minor problem. Ignore them for the time being. Most are in a central group and you are doing fine. Build on that fine job of most going to one place.
Suggestions: - Use your strong hand and dominant eye. Which means your left eye and your right hand. - The concept of adjusting pistol sights seems a lost thought these days. Too many shooters get lost in bullshit shooting tight groups but trying to find the magic finger position that makes a group in the middle. This when the only problem is the mechanical alignment and shooter alignment are slightly mis-matched. Factories do not zero most guns and they for sure did not zero it for you. - Do not get lost with the internet experts telling you that an off center, up down left right, group is all because you finger the trigger wrong or hold your nose out of joint or have a wrong color hat on. - If you make big groups, learn to shoot. Hits that look like patterns from a shotgun versus groups from a rifle are the difference. - If you make small groups, move the group to center your shots. Simple concept. - The sights in most guns move in dovetails so a particular gun can be ZEROED for a particular shooter. - IF you simply centered your groups, you would be a lot happier. And think yourself a good shooter. - The bolded below is from another thread that may help you get the idea and specific adjustment how's: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/164861_Beginner_Shooter_Info___Not_For_Experts___How_To_Set_Up_A_New_Pistol_You_Got_For_Christmas.html Sight Adjustment: --10) Below this point are some non-beginner more complicated sighting in concepts just possibly useful depending on the type of firearm being used. 10a) Non-brand specific info: Depending on the type of pistol, if it has an adjustable rear sight and a dovetail front sight, center the rear sight. Then shoot the pistol and move the front sight left or right to adjust windage on the assumption the movement keeps it fairly near the center line of the slide. At the same time, you can adjust the elevation for vertical impact using the rear sight. 10b) In moving either the front or rear sight of dovetailed sights, how much to move it is always a headache. There are mathematical formulas down to the last 0.001". Easier is to use a 0.7mm mechanical pencil and put a pencil line on each side of the sight on the bottom of the dovetail cut into the slide. As you move the sight left or right, cover one line and expose the other line more. With a full size 4-5" barrel service pistol, one line is about 2" at 15 yards and 3" at 25 yards. With a smaller pistol having a 3-3.5" barrel, one line is about 3" at 15 yards or 5" at 25 yards. The difference is because of the sight radius being much shorter. The same amount of move generates a larger change in the smaller pistol. The line that you move away from is always there so you can move back towards it if you went too far. Degrease the dovetail bottom before marking and the pencil mark lasts a good while. 10c) If the pistol has a fixed front sight, then you can only move the rear for windage. Good Roy Huntington video with references: Hit this tube: Roy will put you onto a ton of references in the side bars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF38cwT4M64 My own grip reference for repeatability: While I am boring you, the following is a bit on how to get a consistent group that will eventually help eliminate the low and lefters: The key to handgun control is GRIP. The hallmark of successful shooting is a grip that is REPEATABLE. Can the shooter do the same thing every time? Or is each shot or group or session a new situation with a new thought from a new book and a new trainer and a new guy with a beard just back from the 'Stan? All of which just serves to confuse the average shooter trying to learn. Follows is my thoughts on how to grip a handgun so that it can be done the same way every time. A repeatable grip. It does not apply to the 1911 style handgun where the shooter must or thinks he must hold the safety down or else recoil will cause his thumb to knock the safety up. This advice does apply to most striker fired and DA/SA semi auto handguns and DA revolvers. A REPEATABLE GRIP: 1) Open your shooting hand thumb and trigger finger. 2) Put the handgun into the web as high up on the back strap as the design allows. 3) Close your three extra fingers around the grip. 4) Lock your thumb down along the tip of your middle finger stacking little, ring, middle, and thumb in that order. 4a) Hold the gun with the firmness that you would shake hands with an athletic woman you respected but did not wish to hurt. Firmly, but not crushed. Firmly, not loosely. Firmly, as you would hold a hammer or other tool, but not so tightly as holding it tires your hand. 5) Put your trigger finger in a safe extended place along the side or if you intend to shoot right now, into the trigger guard. Where in a moment. 6) If you intend to shoot with two hands, take your shooting hand and place it into your off hand so that the forward joints of your shooting hand fit into the grooves of your off hand with your off hand trigger finger up against the bottom of the trigger guard. 7) Your off hand thumb lays atop your shooting hand thumb where ever your hand size puts it. 8) Extend and lock out your elbows and wrists forming an isosceles triangle. 9) Good. You have either gripped the gun in one hand or formed a two handed isosceles triangle position. "Where in a moment" just above was the trigger finger question. 10) As if your eyes were closed, put your trigger finger into the trigger guard and place your finger against the face of the trigger. 10a) Where ever you just put it right now, or in 5) above finding your other hand, is YOUR repeatable trigger finger position. 10b) This is where YOUR finger NATURALLY lays when using that firearm. It is the only place you will ever put it when you are forgetful, confused, rushed, tired, scared, whalloped up side the head, bleeding, or laying on the ground. 10c) This position is where your hand size and shape fits that firearm. It will be different for different guns. But it will be repeatable for each gun in its own style and size. 11) To shoot, pull the trigger to the rear as directly as you can manage. Pull the trigger in a smooth fashion as slow or fast as necessary for your shooting problem at hand. 11a) But do try to isolate your trigger finger from your other nine fingers and two hands and arms and shoulders. If the only thing moving is your trigger finger curling back, you will make a good shot where the sights are lined up. Everything else that you start moving is called flinching. 11b) Note that the above works just as well picking up from a bench, drawing from a holster, or other wise accessing your handgun. Somehow you have to get a grip on it. This is a REPEATABLE GRIP. 12) Once you have decent groups, adjust the rear sight for windage. Decent groups means when you can bench rest 10 shots into 3" with a Glock 17/34 or 4" with a 26/19, then adjust the rear sight. Evaluating your results: The faster you shoot, the more likely a few get away from you. Sight the pistol in with your most careful slow shooting off a bench. Then when sighted in, two handed free hand will keep most of your shots in the center. Once its sighted in for YOU, different distances stay left-right centered and just get larger with distance. And move up or down if fixed elevation sights cannot be changed to a zero. A Beretta M9-22LR standing two hands after sighted in off a bench: 
Faster and closer make for larger groups with flyers. 
100 rounds total went through that target. Holes are hard to mark after a while. Good luck. Disclaimer: (Yes, I know. Too long. All internet guru's should avoid reading this post. It is boring and too filled with details. Just skip it. Addressing several related but un-asked issues is boring to the internet gurus. I only wrote it for the OP since he could use a little help. If I am full of BS, then the Roy video and its sidebar references will keep him reading good stuff long enough to learn. 
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| People make a big deal about cross dominance but in pistols it is a non issue. I have use my left eye right hand for decades. I shoot bullseye competition and have managed one hand free hand sub 2" 25 yard groups. If your groups are tight ( say under 3" at ten yards) tap your rear sight a bit and be done with it. Keep in mind pistols are not zeroed at the factory. Almost universally if a rifle was not shooting where you wanted it to you would adjust the sights. I fail to understand why so many are resistant to doing the same with pistols. I shoot to a pretty high degree of accuracy and all my pistols have a hair of left windage on them for centering hits. |
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I shot left eye right handed for years.
Learned to shoot left handed and was good. Then got hit with a VBIED blast and lost some of the use of my left hand. went back to shooting cross eye dominant right handed and I'm fine. This was my group from 10/15 Ft the other day with my new P320, so it fine for me. 3 mags 45 rounds. I pulled the target off and realised I needed a pic, the 3 rds to the right are actually 3 shots high. SIG is a little different from my G17 
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| Lamp shade speaks well. I have many times emphasized to pistol shooters pistols are not zeroed at the factory and tolerance stacking can result in guns shooting left or right of center. My simplified answer if groups are big adjust the shooter if groups are small adjust the sights. If you are running a routine sub 4" group at 25 yards that prints left or right adjust the sights and be done with it |
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Sights certainly can be off from the factory. However, don't skip to drifting sights right away. First, bench it. If the groups are now on target, the sights aren't the issue, it's something you're doing offhand. Fix what you're doing wrong.
If after benching, it's still grouping off center, have an experienced, good shooter (there are experienced bad shooters) verify both offhand and benched. If it stays off center, then change sights accordingly. My point is two-fold. One, drifting sights may only correct what is happening with that pistol. Any other pistol you pick up will be "off". Two, if you adjust the sights to compensate for when you're doing it wrong, your shots will be off when you do it right. It's like golf: if you often slice, you may shift your stance to play for the slice. But when you don't pull the club across your body, what would've been a great shot ends up in the woods to the left. It's "easiest" to compensate for the problem, but it's best to fix it. |
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I can't understand the concept of trying to force someone to shoot left handed because of eye dominance. Only makes sense with shotguns to me (or someone who can't close one eye) I'm left eye/right hand dominant.
Don't confuse dominance with acuity (ie. how well you can see) Pistols: with the gun at arms length, the amount you need to move it to line up with your left eye is tiny and will happen naturally with both eyes open (fast "defensive" type shooting). With a good grip on the pistol, both palms are in contact with the side of the grip so there is no inherent placement of the gun right/left of your midline based on dominant hand. If I'm going for a slow, accurate shot I close one eye anyway so dominance has no impact (close right, aim with left for me but won't matter if you decide to aim with your right). As someone mentioned above, you could always turn your head slightly to the right to get your left eye more in the midline of your body if you feel the need. Rifles with irons or scope: I always close one eye, and just aim with my right eye. Again, dominance has no impact as my acuity is the same in both. Rifles with red dot: both eyes open. I think being cross dominant is an advantage. Your left, dominant, eye sees the surroundings/target/threats etc without being obscured by the optic. Your non-dominant eye then just superimposes the dot on what you dominant eye is looking at. Shotguns are the problem since you want both eyes open to really track the target/gauge distance etc. In that case your dominant eye will tend to pick up the front sight. ETA: my 5 year old is left eye/right hand. He has a hard time closing one eye so I've been putting masking tape over the left lens of his shooting glasses. Once he gets used to closing his left eye I'll stop that. If he can't ever close his left eye, I'll teach him to shoot lefty as a last resort. |
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Well. That target I posted was a double action to single action from draw double taps with my CZ-75 PCR. I occasionally placed a round at the head. Most shots were around 7-15 yards with the ones way far left being at 25. I probably don't align my sights as well as I could, because I try to practice at defensive speeds. Pretty much as soon as I get a sight picture I'm back on the trigger. I shoot the same with my Glock 19 as well as my 43, even my J frame in single action. The only pistol I've ever fired that was dead one was an FN 45 Tactical. It had a had a can on it and it could have just been impacting right of point of aim. With rifles, I'm dead center unless I'm using a magnified optic then I'm left again. My right eye is so bad I nearly see double even with glasses.
I cant pistols about 15 degrees. I'm really not sure. I've taken defensive pistol classes instructed by a retired US Air Marshal and he couldn't even figure out what my problem is. When I shoot with my left hand I'm POA POI. My grip is good. thumbs forward as high as I can get with my support thumb resting on the frame and my strong thumb resting on my support thumb. There was one exercise we did where I closed my eyes moved the pistol around, brought it back to high ready then punched out and my sights were in the same place I left them before I closed my eyes. It also could be my trigger finger, my hands are giant, but I've experimented with nearly every position on the trigger and haven't noticed a difference. I'm thinking I'll drift my rear sights and be done with it at this point. |
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I can't understand the concept of trying to force someone to shoot left handed because of eye dominance. Only makes sense with shotguns to me (or someone who can't close one eye) I'm left eye/right hand dominant. Shotguns are the problem since you want both eyes open to really track the target/gauge distance etc. In that case your dominant eye will tend to pick up the front sight. |
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Your groups are reasonably small so that I think you can shoot. The farther left and farther lower shots out of your central concentrations of hits are yanks/flinch/humping a bit. Minor problem. Ignore them for the time being. Most are in a central group and you are doing fine. Build on that fine job of most going to one place. |