Posted: 4/22/2005 11:21:19 PM EDT
In .22lr: NAA Who's got one? What are they like to own and shoot? I want one but I can't figure out why!  They're almost comical in appearance.  Can you carry one of these in a pocket without a pocket holster (as a last ditch BUG)? They've got them in 22 Short, 22 Long, 22 Magnum, 17 Mach2, and 17 HMR. What can the higher velocity, and lower weight 17 cartridges do that the 22's can't? (edit: I guess their not shipping the .17's cause of relibility problems with the bottelneck cartridges link. Also, the .17 don't seem to stablize reliably out of those short barrels link.) I don't have any dellusions of any of these little guys being effective for personal defense. I think I just want one to fiddle with. In .17 HMR w/ a .17 Mach2 cylinder:  Mini-Master (w/ adjustable sights!):  NAA ballistics page |
| I too had to have one. I got the black widow 22mag. Why I don't know. I did end up carrying it quite a bit in a pocket with a shotshell or two in the rotation for snakes. They are well built little guns and suprisingly accurate if you have one that you can grip. If I had it to do over again I would have the 22 lr with the plastic rotating shroud/holster/grip thingamajiggy. There are better choices for bugs but I like 'em. |
i like 'em but don't own one yet. once i get to the point i can part with the money for one i will. lots of folks carry them. i was in a gun store last week and looked at the .22 lr version. i made a comment about how it fit so easily in my pocket and it would be a good "deep concealment" gun. there were about 4 or 5 others in the store and they all said "YEAH! real loud and everyone pulled one of these out of their pockets - including the owner behind the counter. i was the only one without one! i figure they will be better than nothing if you really have to carry discreetly - i'm not supposed to carry at work but we have had threats and serious stuff going on at times. they don't check my pockets and there are no metal detectors. thats where one of these would come in nicely. they are well made and good customer service, too. like you, i want one just to have one. may carry it too sometimes. ETA: i look at it as a "this is not your car - get back out of my window" sort of gun. no one wants to get a stinger hollowpoint in the face. |
I've got one. I used to carry it in my front pocket in a pocket holster. As soon as I get done with this, it will be in my pocket again. Is it practical? I'm not sure. I have read a few articles where people have actually used them for self defense. I would like to get the .17HMR version since it's ballistically better.
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I have one in .22LR as a toy... it jumps about a bit because there is not much to hold onto (with the birdshead grip, anyway). They are also quite slow to shoot as the hammer is so stubby. Oh, and if you are in too much of a hurry there is a chance of shooting the end of your support hand finger off. Unlike older single-action designs, however, they can be carried somewhat safely loaded as there is a "mid cylinder" position for the hammer. The biggest issue is finding a carry mode that you are comfortable with - I would NOT recommend pocket carry. NAA offer a belt-buckle holster that looks neat: On balance, I can't envisage a situation where I would want to carry one for self defence, even as a backup. Its just too slow and clumsy to rely on, and a .22 is marginal even out of a long barrel. There are better pocket pistols out there with more punch and not much bigger. They are, however, a hoot to shoot ! 
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I have owned almost every one of them except the 17s. Heck I've even got a Casull Arms Boot Gun that predates those. Those are by far the coolest of the mini guns. I mounted a cheapo red dot sight on a Black Widow once just for shooting shorts and colibri in the yard and mainly because I could. They are a neat conversation piece. I've carried one with shot loads for snakes, works well and fits in my tackle box to boot. They are remakably accurate but tiny sights and tiny grips make them hard to shoot. I figure they are best for times you can't carry a gun but want too. Pretty much a last ditch, jam it in the turds eyeball sorta thing. I do carry a short popper in a kydex neck rig every now and again. But I pretty much have them for fun. A Beretta 21 or Airlite J frame is a better last ditch sort of gun anyway. |
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I've got a Black Widow that lives in my pocket. Great little gun. If you're thinking about getting one to carry - Get the Black Widow it has the the best sights. Get the .22WMR the most power availible. The .17HMR/.17HM2 is just plain useless from only a 2" barrel. Get a spare .22lr cylinder for cheap practice. The best ammo is either the CCI Maxi-Mag TNT/ +V or the Winchester Supreme 34gr. JHP  Here's some different .22WMR bullets recovered from wet newspaper. (not exactly scientific but interesting) *Winchester Supreme JHP 34gr. Penetrated- 5" expansion - .362 Bullet expanded and held together nicely. Large wound channel with expansion within the first inch. *CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 30gr. Penetration- 5" Expansion- Frag. Bullet/Jacket separation. Only the jacket was recovered, large wound channel expansion within the first inch *CCI Gold Dot 50gr. Penetration- 10" Expansion- .223 No expansion, bullet appeared to yaw in the last few inches. *CCI Maxi-Mag +V HP 30gr. Penetration- 6" Expansion-.285 Jacket/Core seperation jacket not recovered *Remington Premier Ballistic tip 30gr. Penetration- 8" Expansion- .223 Plastic tip not recovered |
Your links and statements above must be old. I saw a .17 HMR at the gun store last week. |
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I fall into the same category as the "don't own one, but want one for some unkown reason." I'd like a blackwidow with a 2" barrel, and to replace the plastic grip with the "large" wooden ones. I think it'd be a hoot with .22 shorts. As a BUG, I'd rather have that that a .25. And, the diminuative autos all have a habit of leaving tooth marks in my hand. It's not a serious defense gun, but it'd be a fun gun to play with. ETA - I was playing with one in a gun shop the other day and realized it's a smaller than my benchmade. |
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I shot a buddies 22LR one. They do jump and bite the flesh a bit between your thumb and forefinger, as there isn't much to hold onto, but it's very minor and easily something you can get used to expecting after a few shots. They are good for super deep, in the pocket use when any other CCW is impractical. |
| I carry 1 as a last ditch (bug) I have the .22 lr shorter barrel. It isn't too bad in recoil and accurate from 5-7 yrd shots. i can hit a pop can. I may buy another just to have , maybe a .22 mag. version. I figure if I have to use it , it will be close and personal. |
Did you send it back? Did they fix or replace it? I have heard they have good customer service (in regards to their pocket autos). I've never had a problem with the minis like that before and I have owned at least a dozen. I have had problems with one binding up, but that was only when it was really dirty, about a brick of Blazer to be exact. Wiped it out and it was good for a bit more fun. Got it home and sprayed it with powder blast and it was like new again. |
Hmm, I don't know. The link regarding them not shipping is from NAA, dated March 2005. Maybe they were shipping and now aren't or maybe they just started shipping this month?? Every month the president of NAA posts a letter concerning the state of things in the "Sandy's Soapbox" area of their website. Kinda nice to get regular updates on company philosophy, products, etc. April 2005 isn't out yet so maybe they've figured out the .17's.
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they fixed it. good thing for me it was before the shippers started requiring next day air 7 such for handguns. So I was only out about $12.00 instead of the $40.00 it runs to send in a handgun for repairs now. |
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Well, I just couldn't help myself. Picked up a .22WMR, 1 1/8" barrel, and it came with .22lr conversion cylinder. Price was $179.95 + tax at The Sportsman's Wearhouse. I looked at a Black Widow also. It was a toss-up between the two. I liked them both. I choose to buy the littler one (first ). I can almost hide it in a cleched fist! First impressions are good. It looks good and feels great in my hand. Fit and finish are excellent except for one thing--the front "sight" is bent ever so slightly to the right. I've heard from others that all the recent ones are like that and NAA says thats just how they are. It's a subtle flaw and I'm not bothered by it. Despite Rangie's grouping (nice), I figure it's hardly meant for precision anyway. I must say it was the dirtiest brand new gun I've ever bought. Despite being NIB there was noticable crud in the barrel and cylinders. Clearly each cylinder had been test fired at the factory (more than once I suspect). Hey, better to have them tune it at the factory from the get-go, I figure. Or, maybe I just don't no squat about revolvers (this being my first!). After some cleanup, everything is pure shiny. There are lots of tiny little clicks goin' on in there when cocking the hammer and lowering it slowly by thumb. Definitely some small parts in there! But, it seems very well built. I can't wait to go shoot it!!  EDIT: Just got back from shooting. Great little gun! Lots of fun! Flawless function and the kick from the WMRs wasn't as bad as I was expecting. It's got some snap, but a hundred rounds in a row wasn't a problem for my hand. For some reason clearing empties and then dropping fresh rounds in a revolver's cylinder is a lot more fun (satisfying?) then loading rounds in a magazine. Just an odd observation. It is hard to hit anything. I need to take it to the indoor range and punch some paper to figure out how to aim it. With just plinkin' in the desert I couldn't figure out if I was high or low or what. Still, lots of fun though. The WMR are quite loud with surprizing muzzle blast. I made the mistake of firing one round without muffs...dumb move--ouch! If you ever had to fire one in a concrete jungle, I think the sound alone will get lots of attention! Here she is:  
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This thread got me to snoopin around the NAA site and I realized they now make the grip/handle for the mags and black widow. Bob, does the handle thingamajiggy work ok? If so I might try it. Also Rangie What distance were you shooting? |
10 yards. These little guys can shoot. It's the sights that give most people trouble. That's why I recomend the BW. You can take out the cylinder and do some dry-firing to break in the trigger before you take it to the range. Mine started pretty gritty but got better with use. I find that using the joint of my finger rather than the pad works better with the little trigger. YMMV As far as durrability mine has at least 3 bricks of Dynapoints and maby 500-700 rounds of TNT's through it. Plus a few shotshells. (Great fun for carpenter bees) |
Yes, the handle works perfectly, IMO. I don't have to fish it out of the depths of my pockets & it fills my large hands nicely. As for range, I shot it about 5 yards or so. I doubt it was designed for much more than that, IMO. I'd say up to about 7 yards, I could place one in a perp's eye.
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Got one - - the short-barreled one in 22 lr. Nice little revolver, but not sure what it's good for. Shot mine several times -- not bad if you can get REAL close ! ! About 4 years ago I gave one to a very close friend as a Christmas present. He's in LE and has carried it daily in a "neck" holster as his "third gun". Once heard them described as a "cooler gun" -- you know . . the gun you use when the bad dude is marching all the employes into the cooler during the robbery . . . . . |