Posted: 4/13/2005 5:28:27 PM EDT
| I think this settles it www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm |
|
Let us not forget that the FBI once adopted 10mm as the round of choice then summarily dropped it because of, over penetration. Asside from that, 10mm ammo is hard to find and expensive when you do find it. It has rapidly gone the way of the 38 super and the 41magnum. But hey, this is America so do what ever you want..... 
|
|
What ever you say Jack. You must be the expert since you responded but if the interest were there I have no doubt that the 10mm could be fitted into a 1911 style sub-compact like the Colt Defender or the Kimber Ultra-Carry. Apparently the interest isn't there or someone would have done it by now. If recoil were such concern then why did the FBI ever use 45acp they could have stuck with 38special, 9mm or 22lr. We're not talking about the 500s&w here 10mm is just an elongated .40s&w. |
|
I'm throwing my two cents in with Jack on this one. Everything I've read indicates that recoil and frame size were the biggest considerations to abandon the 10mm. Loads were first reduced to get qualification up, then Smith saw the opportunity to offer the lowered ballistics in a smaller frame. IIRC, the 170gr Norma 10mm load and the 158gr Federal HS .357 mag were the only cartridges tested that passed all the FBI's various tests for sufficient penetration into ballistic gelatin after passing through various barriers. These ultimately lead to the short-lived adoption of the 10mm. Jonathan |
|
It amazes how passionate people get in caliber arguements. Spend some time in combat, on the streets as a cop or firefighter, or in an emergency room as a doctor or nurse, and you will see most handgun rounds pretty much do the same thing. I've only seen one actual 10mm shooting, and it was as just impressive as most .45 wounds I've seen. I've seen a lot of .45 and 9mm wounds, and a good number of .357 and .44 mag wounds. I've also seen a lot of .38, .380, .25, and .22 wounds. Many of these have been very unimpressive. Regardless, the most important thing is still shot placement. The difference between .45 or 10mm is really a moot point. They both get the job done, recoil can be a factor, or might be hardly noticeable, and it comes down to personal preference. I would feel fine with either, and even better with a shotgun or rifle. |
Well, Glock makes the G29 subcompact, and really 10mm is worthless out of a sub 3.5 or 4 inch barrel-.40 makes nearly the same power at that point, in a smaller, lighter recoiling gun. The FBI really has no idea what weapon they want. Right now its mostly the G22 (.40) while HRT members and instructors (read-people who know their way around pistols) use a 1911 in .45. |
Amen to that. I want a 10mm though, for the higher capacity (I'm thinking STI 2011) and the flat trajectory, as I enjoy shooting my autopistols at 75-100m. I really had fun with an 8 inch barreled .357 Colt Python once, at about 120 yards. Barely had to hold over with that one. |
Well that kinda blows your size of the weapon argument right out of the water and like I said if recoil was ever an issue why did the FBI ever consider 45acp. |
Full power 10MM's kick a hell of a lot more than .45, so the FBI reduced the power of the round. S&W realized that they could cut the 10MM down and fit it in a 9MM framed weapon- the birth of the .40S&W. Full power 10MM's are about 300 fps faster than a .40. The downloads offer the same performance as .40, but in a larger, heavier weapon. |
Your information is outdated. New 10mm loads exceed 800ftlbs of energy. 
|
| I've been convinced for a while that an STI Eagle 5.0 10MM would a fantastic pistol. STI will build them, I'm thinking of ordering one when I get home (if I can get over the price!). Les Baer will also build you a 5" 1911 in 10MM. Hell, the Glock 20 almost brought me over to the Glock side... |
Last time I checked (been a few years) the .400 CorBon won't go work the the 180 and 200 gr bullets. I'm assuming this is because the .400 casing won't take the pressure a 10MM will. |
| I want a 10mm because it's fascinating and I don't have one, and I like the slap when it hits a target. And by the way, I shoot .38 Super, and .41 Magnum, and .45, and 9mm, and just about all the others too. Will I ever need to defend my life with a handgun? I've made it 53 years without having to-- but if I have to, I'm confident that I can do the job with whatever tool happens to hand (or no tools at all if it comes to that). |
|
Recoil is a subjective issue. I just shot one of my Deltas this last weekend next to a heavier Springfield operator in .45. I was shooting some old ammo that was definitely full power. I had some old Impact ammo, and also some original Norma 200 gr. TC ammo (which most gunwriters say is definitely a hard kicker). I forgot how much I really like this gun with full power ammo. I guess it feels like it recoils a little more, but the gun gets back on target quicker than a .45. The slide velocity is noticeably quicker. I can actually shoot one faster than a .45. I had another ARFCOMer shoot the gun. He said he knew 10mm recoiled more, but never shot one. He was very surpised, and commented that the gun recoiled quicker. I did not say a thing to him to give him this idea. He figured it out on his own. Shooting 1911s in .45 and 10mm is a good way to compare the recoil. For me the felt recoil difference is minimal, and as I said, the muzzle flip is quicker on the 10mm, leading to better split times for me. Really though, I'm wondering how many people that argue about which load or caliber is better, have ever shot anyone. If you find yourself in a gunfight, caliber will be the last thing on yourmind.  You WILL probably be thinking about how you wish you could shoot faster.
|
|
the 10mm is slightly more versitle than the .45acp--range, energy, loads h/w, comparing ammo costs, availabilty, and recoil issues (with some loads, rapid fire), then i would stick with the .45acp over the 10mm as a self defense gun by the way, full powered 10mm win silvertips in my G29 has stout recoil, but mangable |
Their loads are good for a commercial load, but still weak in comparison to insane don't even think of using a stock barrel handloads  .a 135gr (bullet) 10mm cartridge is capable of generating over 800 ftlbs of energy. A little spicy. |
|
Not This Shit Again I like them both. 10mm and the 45ACP are great rounds to shoot and load for. Pros 45ACP BIG fricken 45cal hole 10mm round falls thru my 45 case gauge Looks much more scarier to a bad guy if looking down the barrel  ALL time favorite pistol caliber, PERIOD! Cheap factory ammo (I reload and I think factory ammo sucks, except CCI blazer BRASS) MOST 1911 high end builders ONLY build for 45ACP. Cons. Limited on hot reloading. Pros 10mm Very accurate Explosive power, flat trajectory, I also enjoy shooting my auto pistols at 75-100m and still be able to do major damage. Fun to reload, from mild to wild, or NUKE loads Cheap to shoot if you RELOAD. less than 100.00 per 1000 load 180HP Zero (target load) or 15.00 per 50 using the BEST bullets, Nosler, Hornady, Gold Dots. Cons Expensive or hard to find factory ammo (so reload) I happen to only own 10mm 1911s AT THIS POINT (working on finding a blued DW 45), I really like shooting the 10mm, reloading is soooo much fun. Mike McNett from DT has share several NUKE loads, and there is sooo much load data it make load testing way more fun than the 45. Here are the boyzs both are Dan Wessons chamber in the 10mm   check out the slide fit  |
| If you're referring to the one I mentioned in this thread, it's completely stock. Pics would be disappointing. I have two stock ones and one that's an older build from 5 years ago. That one has a Dawson rail on it and is posted in the Colt photos thread. If I ever get a chance to work on my own guns, I have a pristine stock Delta that will be a project gun. I already have Heinie Straight Eights, a Bar-Sto barrel, King's high grip beavertail, Wilson hammer, Greider trigger, C&S Ambi, Wolff springs, and a Morris mag well waiting in a box on my bench. It should be a kick butt pistola. |
.40 Super rectifies the case strength deficiency. |