Posted: 3/3/2005 10:09:55 PM EDT
| Can you carry a round in the chamber with the hammer down? |
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With a gun with a firing pin safety, manually lowering the hammer disengages the firing pin safety. On models without a firing pin safety there is nothing there to lock it to begin with. You then end up resting the hammer directly AGAINST an unlocked firing pin. That is not a safe way to carry it. |
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As said above.....it's generally considered a bad idea to carry an M-1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. Cocked & locked was the way the pistol was designed to be carried..... there's no "safety issue" to worry about. Granted.....viewing a "cocked hammer" in a holster can make some people "jittery" ("Look at that! That gun's a trigger pull away from firing!!! Hide the children!!!")....remember that a Glock is also a "trigger pull away" from going "Bang".....you just can't externally see the hammer (striker) back. Same holds true for any DAO pistol (or revolver), any shotgun, rifle, etc....... Cocked & locked may look unsafe.....but there's nothing at all wrong with it. |
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sure but i would not recommend it carry condition 1 www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm |
The big issue with carrying a 1911 "hammer down" isn't so much whether the end result is safer....but the extreamly unsafe way of getting said hammer down! To lower the hammer, you must over ride every safety feature with a round in the chamber.....hoping like hell that your thumb doesn't slip off the hammer!  So actually....cocked & locked is actually much safer for that reason.Truthfully....there's no safety "issue" carrying the 1911 cocked & locked, and "hammer down" on a loaded chamber offers no advantage over C&L....other than to appease nervous people that "wig out" apon seeing a cocked hammer in your holster. As others have said.....if you can't bring yourself to carry the 1911 the way it was intended to be carried, perhapse a different pistol would suite you better. p.s. Another way one could carry the 1911 would be "hammer down" on an EMPTY chamber. As you draw your weapon, you rack the slide. IIRC, this is the way many Israeli units used to carry pistols (they were Berettas....but the same technique can be used with the 1911). |
You over ride the the safety features only if you hold the trigger in during the decocking process. The proper and SAFE way to decock a 1911 IF you feel the need to do so is to use the built in safety features such as the half cock and firing pin lock if you pistol has one. You place the thumb of the left hand between the hammer and slide. Pull the trigger and allow the hammer to rest against your thumb and take your finger off the trigger. Now that you have released trigger the half cock and firing pin lock will prevent an AD if you screw up. Slowly remove your thumb from between the hammer and slide allowing the hammer to drop to half cock. Getting it from half cock to fully down is easy and should your let the hammer slip the pistol will not fire. Now you know the safe way to decock a 1911 IF you feel the need to do so. Even better get rid of your antique guns and buy something more modern and more reliable. |
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OK great. So you habituate yourself to slowly and meticulously hand lowering your hammer every time you holster. Do you do this EVERYTIME you reholster, or do you you keep it cocked and locked on the range? Which are you going to do if you use your handgun for self defense? Are you going to slowly and meticulously lower your hammer while your body is still surging with adrenaline? Im sorry, but advocating this is PURE UTTER STUPIDITY |
I have never advised anyone to carry hammer down. If I carry a 1911 it is cocked and locked. No matter if we like it or not some people do carry hammer down. I just told them how to decock the pistol IF they insist on doing so. |
You're priceless,  I'll take my unreliable antique any time. My POS antique once actually malfunctioned on a severely oversized reload that wouldnt fit in the chamber, if I recall right it was only 17 or 18 thousand rounds ago too. And group sizes have opened up to a horrible 1.5" with H&G 68's. It shoots damned accurately with the much cheaper cast lead bullets. It will shoot far better than I can with my standard 230gr Ranger SXTs too. The 1911 is faster on target, faster to get in action, and I shoot it better than any other pistol. My sig is far, far behind my 1911. My XD also cannot compare, and my last glock..... dont even wanna go into that. Corndog2 you really dont believe your drivel do you? |
Yes you CAN, but it's a rather stupid way to carry. You'd be better off carrying with no round chambered. Drawing & racking the slide is faster than trying to cock the hammer. Now.... carrying cocked & locked is safe with a proper holster; especially the newer 1911 designs (Colt Series-80, Kimber-II, etc)with the firing pin block. Only corporate lawyers will tell you otherwise. John Browning knew what he was doing when he designed this pistol. |
Soooooo...lets say my thumb safety breaks... ...then the grip safety would have to get depressed. THEN, someone or something would have to press the trigger. You familiar with the 1911 AT ALL?. I look forward to your future contributions on the subject. They're quite enlightening. |
... crap, I'm a chicken. But I'll say that the 1911 design, carried cocked and locked, is EVERY BIT AS SAFE as more modern SA/DA or DAO semi-auto. All mechanical safeties can fail, and ultimately, safety is in the discipline of the OWNER. But there isn't a reason in the world not to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. Oh-oh, better get outta here quick and back to my armchair and popcorn. |
| Maybe this has been beaten to death repeatedly, but I simply don't like the idea of constant spring tension, ready to be released by accident or through failure of man-made parts. FTR, I haven't shot one, unless you count dry-firing a few I checked out in gun shops. I prefer something like a Sig DA/SA, which can be decocked and yet is still ready to fire with the first trigger pull (all subsequent shots being SA, just like a 1911). |
and make it mandatory reading before being able to post. |
There has NEVER been an accidental weapon discharge (that I am awar of) on a 1911 that is cocked and locked. For it to fire on its own, the thumb safey would have to break and something would have to depress the grip safety. So it is VIRTUALLY impossible for it to go off. Having owned many a DA weapon and used the auto decocker on them (and had a round go off while decocking, remember the golden rule about where the weapon is pointed) I will never own another one. Your first shot is a pull and second shot is a flinch. Going from DA to SA is never good for accuracy. If you want a constant pull, get a Glock. Want a single action pull? Get a 1911! C4 |
Havent shot one, therein lies the problem. You dont know what you prefer till you get trigger time. Dry firing at a gunshop is not nearly the same critter as shooting/owning one. Dont be scared of it, the pistol wont bite you. Safest system out there, far ahead of a glock or a DA pistol. You train as the pistol comes on target you drop the thumb safety, it's natural and quick, you dont even think about it. As the pistol leaves the target the safety is snicked back on, always. If you train with it there's nothing faster, I can drop the safety and get a shot off long before I could go through the long and heavy DA pull of my Sig P220. On the siggy I have to transition from long to short pull and remember to decock before holstering. The 1911 is a far easier run, at least for me anyhow. |
The 1911 has a manaul safety that blocks the sear and the forward movement of the hammer. The half cock or intersept notch also stops the fall of the hammer if the sear should somehow fail to hold it to the rear. Newer 1911 also have a firing pin lock that will stop the pistol from firing if all the other safetys somehow fail all at once which is damn near impossible. In other words the automatic back up safety devices are designed to prevent an AD if the hammer is released by accident or through failure of man-made parts. All good single action autos have such back up safety devices except the Steyr and junk guns such as a Jennings, Bryco and a few other cheap guns. |