Posted: 9/4/2013 6:38:57 AM EDT
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INFORMATION: Two LEO's end up in the water on Lake Michigan in a high wave condition. One carrying a Glock 17 and one carrying a Springfield Armory XDM 40. Both wearing the same protective clothing. Both in the water for the same length of time (approx. 30 minutes). Both guns were field stripped by the same person (Supervisor). Same method, same solvent and same oil. Officers then are issued new duty ammunition.
TRIP TO RANGE: XDM fails to fire (light strike) 13 in 17 attempts. Glock 17 fired approx. 850 rounds without glitch (after the 850 rounds there was not failure, the firearm was merely cleaned and returned to service). FINDINGS: XDM firing pin channel LOADED with sand from sand that had been suspended in the water from adverse conditions. CORRECTIVE ACTION: The firing channel was properly cleaned and firearm then performed appropriately. OPINION: Most individuals will not find themselves in this situation. If you do, know this is a possibility. I know firsthand. |
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I own both guns and carry both guns on an alternating basis. There are some differences in the firing pin of both guns. The XDM have a firing pin that is almost as big as the firing pin channel. What I mean is the outside diameter is just small enough to slide into the firing pin channel. It doesn't have a plastic guide sleeve like the Glock with the plastic sleeve as a guide and only about half as long as the firing pin. The Glock has more or less a floating firing pin. Very little in there rides against the walls of the firing pin channel like the XDM. I could definitely see how sand could be a problem if it got into the channel and could be more of a problem for the XDM than the glock because the way the firing pin is made it could prevent it from going forward far enough to strike the face of the primer. Whereas the Glock with the floating firing pin wouldn't have this problem.
If someone could find some pictures of the firing pins you would be able to see what I'm talking about. |
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Quoted:
So if I'm planning on participating in an exceptionally unlikely event in a place 700 miles from me, and want to fire my gun without a proper cleaning afterwards, I'm better off with a Glock. Gotcha. Was the Glock a repaired Gen 4?  Bawhahahahahahaha! I'm waiting for more info from the OP before I say anything snarky or not... However, I have seen two instances on that "Other" site of guys dropping their XD's in a dry almost desert environment and some fine grit/pebbles rendering it useless because it got wedged in between the grip and the safety. This was during competition though IIRC. Anything can fail, know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and plan appropriately... |
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Quoted:
Bawhahahahahahaha! I'm waiting for more info from the OP before I say anything snarky or not... However, I have seen two instances on that "Other" site of guys dropping their XD's in a dry almost desert environment and some fine grit/pebbles rendering it useless because it got wedged in between the grip and the safety. This was during competition though IIRC. Anything can fail, know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and plan appropriately... Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I'm planning on participating in an exceptionally unlikely event in a place 700 miles from me, and want to fire my gun without a proper cleaning afterwards, I'm better off with a Glock. Gotcha. Was the Glock a repaired Gen 4? Bawhahahahahahaha! I'm waiting for more info from the OP before I say anything snarky or not... However, I have seen two instances on that "Other" site of guys dropping their XD's in a dry almost desert environment and some fine grit/pebbles rendering it useless because it got wedged in between the grip and the safety. This was during competition though IIRC. Anything can fail, know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and plan appropriately... I don't actually have a dog in this fight. I've owned a Glock before, and spent a good bit of time shooting XDs. I dislike them both. I will admit that both of them have merits, and (at least previously) Glock was pretty much the standard for something that would go "BANG!" pretty much every time the trigger was pulled. Just trying highlight that the OP's story involved a situation that very few people are ever likely to be in. |
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I chased a guy into a salt marsh once, while wearing my J-frame on my ankle. The gun was so full of salt and sand, that the thumb latch had to be tapped with a rubber hammer to open the cylinder and the trigger wouldn't reset after being pulled.
It's a rough world. 
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Since this incident, our entire department has had to also have magazine springs replaced annually every 12 months since, all kinds of malfunctions related to the lack of tension on magazines holding 1-3 remaining rounds. Also, the magazine catch drift pins are drifting and they have less than 2,500 rounds through them. We are headed into our 3rd group of replacement springs.
We have approximately 120 guns in full-time issued service. SA originally sent us brand new magazines (no charge) for replacement. 12 months later...same problem. Got new springs. 12 months later, we are readdressing the matter same problems, but MANY more mag release pins working there way out the left side of the gun. I will post more as all the Factory attempts to deal with the problem. The LEO Customer has been very gracious and apologetic, but remedies have not been offered beyond replacing bad springs with new springs that go bad in approx. 12 months. |
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Quoted:
Since this incident, our entire department has had to also have magazine springs replaced annually every 12 months since, all kinds of malfunctions related to the lack of tension on magazines holding 1-3 remaining rounds. Also, the magazine catch drift pins are drifting and they have less than 2,500 rounds through them. We are headed into our 3rd group of replacement springs. We have approximately 120 guns in full-time issued service. SA originally sent us brand new magazines (no charge) for replacement. 12 months later...same problem. Got new springs. 12 months later, we are readdressing the matter same problems, but MANY more mag release pins working there way out the left side of the gun. I will post more as all the Factory attempts to deal with the problem. The LEO Customer has been very gracious and apologetic, but remedies have not been offered beyond replacing bad springs with new springs that go bad in approx. 12 months. i'd like to see the documentaion on these or some pics. not saying it isn't or can't happen but that is an awful lot of the same issues that no one else seems to be having with higher round counts. |
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Quoted:
I don't actually have a dog in this fight. I've owned a Glock before, and spent a good bit of time shooting XDs. I dislike them both. I will admit that both of them have merits, and (at least previously) Glock was pretty much the standard for something that would go "BANG!" pretty much every time the trigger was pulled. Just trying highlight that the OP's story involved a situation that very few people are ever likely to be in. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I'm planning on participating in an exceptionally unlikely event in a place 700 miles from me, and want to fire my gun without a proper cleaning afterwards, I'm better off with a Glock. Gotcha. Was the Glock a repaired Gen 4? Bawhahahahahahaha! I'm waiting for more info from the OP before I say anything snarky or not... However, I have seen two instances on that "Other" site of guys dropping their XD's in a dry almost desert environment and some fine grit/pebbles rendering it useless because it got wedged in between the grip and the safety. This was during competition though IIRC. Anything can fail, know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and plan appropriately... I don't actually have a dog in this fight. I've owned a Glock before, and spent a good bit of time shooting XDs. I dislike them both. I will admit that both of them have merits, and (at least previously) Glock was pretty much the standard for something that would go "BANG!" pretty much every time the trigger was pulled. Just trying highlight that the OP's story involved a situation that very few people are ever likely to be in. Oh, I totally agree with Bassman... I've sold all my Glocks in favor of M&P's. I don't care for XD's either. I think they are fine for the most part though and the problem the OP is speaking of is something that 99.3% of members here are NOT going to experience; just like you said Bassman. It is nice of the OP to post this though to give a heads up of what happened, and as a reminder to us all that shit happens. |
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Quoted:
i'd like to see the documentaion on these or some pics. not saying it isn't or can't happen but that is an awful lot of the same issues that no one else seems to be having with higher round counts. Quoted:
Quoted:
Since this incident, our entire department has had to also have magazine springs replaced annually every 12 months since, all kinds of malfunctions related to the lack of tension on magazines holding 1-3 remaining rounds. Also, the magazine catch drift pins are drifting and they have less than 2,500 rounds through them. We are headed into our 3rd group of replacement springs. We have approximately 120 guns in full-time issued service. SA originally sent us brand new magazines (no charge) for replacement. 12 months later...same problem. Got new springs. 12 months later, we are readdressing the matter same problems, but MANY more mag release pins working there way out the left side of the gun. I will post more as all the Factory attempts to deal with the problem. The LEO Customer has been very gracious and apologetic, but remedies have not been offered beyond replacing bad springs with new springs that go bad in approx. 12 months. i'd like to see the documentaion on these or some pics. not saying it isn't or can't happen but that is an awful lot of the same issues that no one else seems to be having with higher round counts. Agreed, you'd expect to see more information out there on this. Plenty of XD and XDm's with very high round counts and non of these issues. |
