Posted: 8/1/2013 3:50:55 PM EDT
| is it practical and actually works better than iron sights? |
| If you're not a good shot with a pistol a laser will not make you a pro instantly. Just as with iron sights, you must maintain your point of aim while giving a smooth, straight back trigger pull. The benefit is that with a laser you can put all your visual focus on the target, just making sure to hold the dot steady. With iron sights you must maintain alignment front to back, and maintain the front sight where you want to hit. Less to think about with the laser, thus it seems easier. I'm a lot more accurate during rapid fire with my laser on, but when shooting groups I can do almost as well with the irons. |
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If you're shooting from unusual positions where you can't see the sights (like during a wrestling match with a guy who's trying to get your gun), a laser is useful.
For any other shooting, iron sights are faster and just as accurate. EDIT: For speed, you'll be playing "find the dot" with the laser, and the dot will be anywhere between you and the horizon. Good luck finding it. With iron sights, you'll be playing "find the front sight", but you'll know that the font sight is somewhere about 4" in front of your hands. For accuracy, you put the laser on the target, and hold the laser on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. For accuracy, you put the front sight on the target, and hold the front on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. Modern, quality lasers (Crimson Trace, etc.) are perfectly visible in daylight, and can almost be used for target identification at night because they are so bright that there's about a 3' cone of usable light around the actual dot. The only time a laser has any real value is if you're in an improvised position that makes it hard or impossible to use the sights. "Shooting from retention" type positions, some prone shooting positions, etc.. EDIT2: Personally, I've taken the Crimson Trace laser off my carry gun because it encouraged unsafe gun handling. Normally I rest my trigger finger along the side of the frame until I'm actually pulling the trigger. With the CT laser, that meant my finger was actually blocking the path of the laser. In order to use the laser to index the gun with the target, I had to either have my finger extended out to the side (which felt unnatural) or put my finger on the trigger (which is unsafe). YMMV of course. |
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Quoted:
If you're shooting from unusual positions where you can't see the sights (like during a wrestling match with a guy who's trying to get your gun), a laser is useful. For any other shooting, iron sights are faster and just as accurate. EDIT: For speed, you'll be playing "find the dot" with the laser, and the dot will be anywhere between you and the horizon. Good luck finding it. With iron sights, you'll be playing "find the front sight", but you'll know that the font sight is somewhere about 4" in front of your hands. For accuracy, you put the laser on the target, and hold the laser on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. For accuracy, you put the front sight on the target, and hold the front on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. Modern, quality lasers (Crimson Trace, etc.) are perfectly visible in daylight, and can almost be used for target identification at night because they are so bright that there's about a 3' cone of usable light around the actual dot. The only time a laser has any real value is if you're in an improvised position that makes it hard or impossible to use the sights. "Shooting from retention" type positions, some prone shooting positions, etc.. EDIT2: Personally, I've taken the Crimson Trace laser off my carry gun because it encouraged unsafe gun handling. Normally I rest my trigger finger along the side of the frame until I'm actually pulling the trigger. With the CT laser, that meant my finger was actually blocking the path of the laser. In order to use the laser to index the gun with the target, I had to either have my finger extended out to the side (which felt unnatural) or put my finger on the trigger (which is unsafe). YMMV of course. Well said. |
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Quoted:
If you're shooting from unusual positions where you can't see the sights (like during a wrestling match with a guy who's trying to get your gun), a laser is useful. For any other shooting, iron sights are faster and just as accurate. EDIT: For speed, you'll be playing "find the dot" with the laser, and the dot will be anywhere between you and the horizon. Good luck finding it. With iron sights, you'll be playing "find the front sight", but you'll know that the font sight is somewhere about 4" in front of your hands. For accuracy, you put the laser on the target, and hold the laser on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. For accuracy, you put the front sight on the target, and hold the front on the target while you execute a proper trigger squeeze. Modern, quality lasers (Crimson Trace, etc.) are perfectly visible in daylight, and can almost be used for target identification at night because they are so bright that there's about a 3' cone of usable light around the actual dot. The only time a laser has any real value is if you're in an improvised position that makes it hard or impossible to use the sights. "Shooting from retention" type positions, some prone shooting positions, etc.. EDIT2: Personally, I've taken the Crimson Trace laser off my carry gun because it encouraged unsafe gun handling. Normally I rest my trigger finger along the side of the frame until I'm actually pulling the trigger. With the CT laser, that meant my finger was actually blocking the path of the laser. In order to use the laser to index the gun with the target, I had to either have my finger extended out to the side (which felt unnatural) or put my finger on the trigger (which is unsafe). YMMV of course. That is an excellent summation. |
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Quoted:
is it practical and actually works better than iron sights? I actually shoot slower with a laser than irons. Irons are quicker/easier to track during rapid fire for me while I have to "hunt" for the laser dot. IME, the main advantage to a laser is being able to get a point of aim without a traditional firing stance or sight picture. That may be necessary due to injury or confined spaces (automobile). |
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I bring this up periodically for those that say lasers aren't faster etc..
I add, that I have never been in a gun fight. I was taking a shooting test, where lasers were allowed. like an idiot I picked up some new ammo I had never fired in my gun before thinking any named brand should be fine. This was a timed event, to qualify as an instructor. literally everyother round jammed in the gun. I never got a string of 2 off. but because I had the laser, I could tell when I was on target. I was able to fire the entire course with only 2 not fired in time, and still scored quite well given those 2 misses. I am not sure if I could have done it without the laser. if I had not passed, I was going ot get my carry ammo out and retry, as I had just enough of that to shoot the course 1 time. |
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Quoted: is it practical and actually works better than iron sights? Better? No. Just no. A laser on a firearm should never be considered a substitute for traditional sights and shooting techniques, training, practice, etc. What they can be is a useful supplement to all of the above which can be helpful in some training/practice situations and can provide a tremendous advantage/capability in some (admittedly) uncommon and unusual shooting situations. YMMV. Quoted: If you're shooting from unusual positions where you can't see the sights (like during a wrestling match with a guy who's trying to get your gun), a laser is useful. ... Modern, quality lasers (Crimson Trace, etc.) are perfectly visible in daylight, and can almost be used for target identification at night because they are so bright that there's about a 3' cone of usable light around the actual dot. The only time a laser has any real value is if you're in an improvised position that makes it hard or impossible to use the sights. "Shooting from retention" type positions, some prone shooting positions, etc.. ... I would quibble slightly over the use of the word "only," but those are the situations where lasers really do come into their own and are most useful, for sure. Well said. |
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Quoted:
I would quibble slightly over the use of the word "only," but those are the situations where lasers really do come into their own and are most useful, for sure. Well said. Can you elaborate on what other situations a laser is handy in? (I'm not trying to be an ass; I honestly want to learn if there might be a good reason to put the laser grips back on that I'm not aware of) |
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Lasers may not be visible in daylight to the one holding the firearm but they will be seen by the individual that has it on their chest. I have been in several situations where
that has put the fear of God in someone. As for shooting at paper I never use them, I use iron sights and realistically don't rely on lasers for self defense but its just another tool. |
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Quoted: Can you elaborate on what other situations a laser is handy in? (I'm not trying to be an ass; I honestly want to learn if there might be a good reason to put the laser grips back on that I'm not aware of) Quoted: Quoted: I would quibble slightly over the use of the word "only," but those are the situations where lasers really do come into their own and are most useful, for sure. Well said. Can you elaborate on what other situations a laser is handy in? (I'm not trying to be an ass; I honestly want to learn if there might be a good reason to put the laser grips back on that I'm not aware of) Legitimate question, IMO, not being an ass at all.  The two primary examples that come to mind have already been mentioned above by others. Training applications and (for lack of a better word) "intimidation" effect. A laser can be very useful to show you your weaknesses in muzzle and trigger control and can be used, live or dry fire, to practice and develop precision control. (And there are probably other training applications that I am less familiar with). Like one of the other posters above, I have witnessed first-hand the ability of that little red dot to deliver a sudden and dramatic attitude adjustment (others will argue against or dismiss that, and YMMV). Now that I am older and (hopefully!) wiser, if I am in a situation where I have to draw I plan to fire immediately and without hesitation, so the latter is relatively moot for me now... but, when I was younger (and admittedly not as wise), there was a situation where having and using a laser diffused a situation entirely and prevented me from having to shoot a guy. (Long story and I've been through it here before, not doing it again.) Even though I believe I would have been acquitted had it come to that, I am still glad to this day that it did not come to that, esp. at that age. Bottom line: I view it as just one more tool in the toolbox... one that I'd rather have than not, one that I am not very likely to need again but that I will be very glad to have available to me if ever I should. I personally believe it is far more important on my tiny pocket-gun/BUG (with its almost nonexistent sights) than my primary CCW, but I have very unobtrusive lasers on both and will continue to do so. Again, YMMV and that's fine. |