[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .38 Super (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/30/2012 10:46:10 AM EDT
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Can't remember this caliber coming up in discussions here so...........anyone have one? I came close to snagging one years ago during a period where disposable income was flush.
By then I had a nice "base collection" including revolvers in 357 and 45 ACP, a pair of .45 1911s, G17/G19s and Ruger a few Ruger 22LRs. I felt like I had fulfilled my "need" handguns and started to look at more exotic calibers. I was a teen when the 86' FBI Miami shootout happened and being a budding gun-nut, I followed the development of the 10mm cartridge and LUSTEDafter the Colt Delta Elite - especially those sweet Gold Cup Models. Those little red triangles hypnotized me but it was many years before I was able to finally plunk down the cash for one. Soon after that a SW 610 revolver, Dan Wesson Bobtail and Glock 20 were added. Finally, a second NIB Delta GC with Ivory grips (that I seriously overpaid for) was added to the stable. Its my BBQ gun but alas, living in NJ there are no BBQs that I can attend with a pistola on my hip  ) Anyway, with my 10mm fix addressed, I turned my attention
to the other caliber that had intrigued me for its history and also its respectable performance as a defensive round - the .38 Super. I never got around to buying one but a recent issue of G&A ran an article about Les Baer coming out with a high-end 1911 in .38 Super and piqued my interest in that caliber again. From what I recall reading, it was a favorite of gangsters in the 20s and 30s for its ability to better penetrate doors, cars bodies, etc...and also a common caliber in countries (mainly SA) where .mil caliber ownership by civves was banned. When I started to look around for one, the choices were slim: I think Colt and Tangfolio were the only "production" guns available but "race" guns from Caspian, STI and I suppose a few others were available at premium prices. The one pistola that had me drooling was the Colt Special Combat Govt model - it was (or is - I don't want to see if its still available now) available blued or two tone: nickel plated with a blued slide adjustable sights. Back when I had the $ and a desire to own a myriad of calibers, those Colts were pretty scarce. I looked around for a while before the sticker price of $1,200 and lack of availability waned my interest. Here is a pic of the nickel version... 
Now 23 years after buying my first handgun, ammo prices are bordering on the rediculous and I STILL haven't taken that Lee Anniversary Reloading Kit out of its box. Its looking more and more like that .38 Super may not ever make it to my safe but my lust for it remains...you guys have any Supers sitting in your safes? |
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It's a great cartridge. The 9x23mm Winchester is an even greater cartridge.
Colt engineers kept the silly semi-rim of the .38 ACP on the .38 Super. So, it is not a good cartridge for double stack magazines, either pistol or sub-machine gun. In the single stack 1911 type pistols, this isn't a problem. The 9mm works well in smg's, so it became more popular world wide. The 9x23mm would work well in smgs, but not too many smgs are made these days. By the way, it is possible to fit a .38 Super barrel to a 10mm Delta Elite slide. You will need .38 Sup magazines, and a different recoil spring. The extractor may need tweaking, but it can be made to work. Yes, the breech face is a sloppy fit. Not the thing for serious use, but good for range use. A 9mm barrel will work in the same fashion. 
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I have looked at the ballistics ( the 38 super was chambered In colts long before the 9mm)
And in mainstream ammo companies loads is a bullet of similar weight going about 100 feet per second faster than a 9mm. There are companies that load specialty super that open that velocity increase to about 250 fps which if then compared to say a 9 +p+ the gap narrows again to under 100fps. When you consider the performance increase over good old 9mm is is minimal, and cost of a box of super is nearly double that of 9mm, can only be found in specialty shops as opposed to your average sporting goods chain store or wal mart there is 't much point to the super except nostalgia. If you really want a super, plan to get a spare fitted 9mm barrel and 9mm mags- this will end up being used more in the long run. The only real advantage the super has over the 9 is it does tend to feed a bit better in the 1911 due to its case length compared to 9mm |
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What's the dfifference in .38 super, 38 SuperComp, 9mm Super and 9x23? Are they interchangeable? .38 SuperComp is .38 Super without semi-rim. I don't think there is a plain "9mm super", but there's a 9x25 super auto G, which is a necked-down 10 mm similar to 9x25 mm Dillon. 9x23 Winchester is a rimless cartridge dimensionally similar to .38 Super but with a much stronger case and much higher pressure. there's also 9mm major, which is a 9x19mm case loaded to longer than standard OAL for more powder space to achieve major power factor. |
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What's the dfifference in .38 super, 38 SuperComp, 9mm Super and 9x23? Are they interchangeable? .38 Super is semi-rimmed, externally, the dimensions are identical to the 19th century .38 ACP. Pressure is higher however. Never fire the .38 Super in the old Colt .38 ACP chambered guns. .38 SuperComp is a rimless cartridge otherwise similar to the .38 Super. Very similar to the 9mm Largo, and also the 9mm Steyr. Similar does not mean identical, however. 9mm SuperComp is a cartridge case produced by Star-Line. It is externally similar to the 9x23mm Winchester, but has thinner brass. It can be fired in 9x23mm Winchester chambered guns, but not loaded to as high a pressure. (It wil still take quite a bit of pressure, just not as much as the Winchester produced 9x23mm Winchester brass). 9x23mm Winchester is the strongest. If you want to load to the highest pressures, this is the one to use. You can use an unramped barrel with this brass. It is bull strong. My 9x23mm Winchester Gov't model clone, (5" barrel), will break 1500 FPS with the 125 grain Silvertip factory load, at least on a hot Summer day. 9x25 Dillon is faster, but not supported by a major ammunition company. Velocity isn't everything, but it does have a very strong appeal. Or, at least it did, these days I find myself happy with conventional .38 Super loads. Yes, you can get into that range with the 9x19 +p and 9mm major. In the 1911 type pistols, I prefer to use the .38 Super instead of Kaiser Bill's 9mm. I don't buy much at Wal-Mart, and I reload. .38 Super serves me fine. Of course, I still get a thrill out of the 9x23mm Winchester. 
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I custom ordered a Kimber 38 super procarry in stainless back in 2008, I don't shoot it as much as I would like to, I don't reload and my cheapass has been too lazy to order more ammo for it  , but It's probably the nicest shooting pistol I have, and is awesome to introduce newbies to handguns with as it has super light recoil, sounds like a small howlitzer, has a light trigger and is extremely accurate. Makes them feel like a badass  . As far as I know Kimber no longer makes these, which is a shame! Quite a few brands make makes factory HP ammo for it (buffalo bore, winchester, corbon, etc), and if you hunt around on the internet you can get ammo for about the price of 9mm! Armscor used to make cheap 38 super ammo, shoots a bit dirty but works well for target use. Want some advice? Buy one.
P.S. Used this as a carry piece for a few years, never felt undergunned! |
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What's the dfifference in .38 super, 38 SuperComp, 9mm Super and 9x23? Are they interchangeable? Just to add to the discussion there was also a 9X21 I don't know if it is still used much or still available even. 9x21 was a slightly lengthened 9x19mm case, used in Italy, probably elsewhere also as a way around the law against owning military calibers. Then, it got hot rodded by loading to higher pressures. It is a variant of the 9x19 Parabellum family. It is strange that so many cartridges, developed around the world, are so close dimensionally. The .355/.356" bullet is popular in a wide variety of different cases. From the .380 ACP to the 9x23mm Winchester, there are many steps along the way, and even one of the bottle necked cases has become quite popular. I think that aliens are behind it all. |
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Need to clarify some points.
The 9X23 is a tapered case. The 38 Super is a straight-walled case. They are not the same. 38 Super Comp brass is "rimless" but in reality has a tiny rim about 0.006 inches wider than the case wall. For comparison, standard 38 Super's semi-rim is about 0.020 inches wider than the case wall. http://38super.net/Pages/Brass.html 9 Major is not always loaded long. Some folks load it to standard 9mm Luger overall length because they use it in 9mm Luger size pistols that won't accept a longer round in the magazine. And yes, the pressures run sky-high as a result. As noted, there are some high performance 38 Super rounds available. http://38super.net/Pages/Factory2.html |
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9 mm major exists only because 'major' was reduced to allow 9 mm .38 Super to safely reach the momentum level. and 9mm can do the same with the right powder and/or exceeding standard OAL And "major" only exists because of .45 crowd protectionism. .38 Super was going for a long time with the same momentum level as .45 ACP. The folks trying to 'make major' with 9mm kept blowing things up till it was finally banned. The level was then lowered to allow 9 mm to make major. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana, Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284 |
I have a Colt 38 super..I think it's a 2009...but she doesn't sit in my safe..lol..I carry mine.. ...Silvertips, powR balls, and ammo from Underwood..Underwood loads them pretty hot and use Hornady XTP boolitz..doesn't feel like a 9mm ..The price is not too bad either.
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I have 2. First is a Series 70 Lightweight Commander with two identical slide groups - 1 in .38 Super and 1 in .45 ACP (done in 1984). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/ODA564/Guns/Commandera_zps52998ebd.jpg The other is a GI model Rock Island Armory (modified with TTrijicon nght sights and VZ grips). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/ODA564/Guns/10-07-11%20Range%20Day/P7100964Medium.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/ODA564/Guns/38SuperRIA-1_zpscfced33e.jpg Oh my goodness. Your first pistol, the commander, that looks like "perfection" to me. I have been building a pistol in my head for years as to what I think would be tops, and that is just about it there. I'd rather have rubber grips though. Although I've never tried those grips. And yeah, I would like it in .38 super. I personally wouldn't mind using just normal pressure .38 super. It seems like most commercial ammo is +p. I've never shot one though to see what I think. But in a LW, I think the +p's might be too stiff for me. But that thing is awesome. One thing to add to the discussion, I hear that the Border Patrol used 1911's in the 20's in .38 Super. I read it somewhere. Another member on here has one: 38 super Colt |
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I had a colt government model in .38 super. I loved everything about it but the price of the ammo. Back then I could/get .45 reloads for $5 a box vs. $20 or more for the .38 new factory ammo that I could get from the LGS. It held 9 plus 1 when double stacks were not common and shot 130gr at 1300 fps vs. 9mm that was only 115gr. @ 1150fps
Very little recoil in a full size 1911 but it was LOUD! Nice flat shooting accurate pistol. I was an idiot for selling it. 
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Oh my goodness. Your first pistol, the commander, that looks like "perfection" to me. I have been building a pistol in my head for years as to what I think would be tops, and that is just about it there. I'd rather have rubber grips though. Although I've never tried those grips. And yeah, I would like it in .38 super. I personally wouldn't mind using just normal pressure .38 super. It seems like most commercial ammo is +p. I've never shot one though to see what I think. But in a LW, I think the +p's might be too stiff for me. But that thing is awesome. 38 Super +P ammunition is standard 38 Super ammunition. The +P was a cosmetic addition (added in 1974) to the name to distinguish 38 Super ammunition from 38 Automatic (38 ACP) ammunition. 38 Automatic is intended for the old Colt pistols (1900-1928) and 38 Super is intended for the new Colt (and others) pistols (1929 - present). Thus, technically, "normal pressure" 38 Super ammunition is labeled 38 Super +P. Yes, it's very confusing. The +P was added because the two cartridges are externally identical. But they are loaded to different pressures. The old 38 Automatic is intended for the old guns (pre 1911 design) that won't tolerate the higher pressure/greater recoil of the full power 38 Super. See the link below for more information: http://38super.net/Pages/History.html |
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Quoted: Oh my goodness. Your first pistol, the commander, that looks like "perfection" to me. I have been building a pistol in my head for years as to what I think would be tops, and that is just about it there. I'd rather have rubber grips though. Although I've never tried those grips. And yeah, I would like it in .38 super. I personally wouldn't mind using just normal pressure .38 super. It seems like most commercial ammo is +p. I've never shot one though to see what I think. But in a LW, I think the +p's might be too stiff for me. But that thing is awesome. One thing to add to the discussion, I hear that the Border Patrol used 1911's in the 20's in .38 Super. I read it somewhere. Another member on here has one: 38 super Colt Thank you. Originally it had Pachmayr grips (still has a Pachmayr mainspring housing and grip safety, which I think are no longer made). I like the "gripiness" of the VZ grips. Lowered ejection port, fitted Bar-Sto barrel and bushing, Millet "high visibility" fixed sights (1980s style). The recoil spring is heavier than OEM Colt but I don't remember how much. I don't "perceive" any greater recoil with +P and the heavier recoil spring might be part of that. |
| Interesting. Some say a heavier spring actually increases felt recoil. So, I'm not sure what to think about that. Either way, it is a great pistol and it's one I would probably cherish if I had one like it. Now I just have to figure out if I want to search one out. I would think it's a rather rare breed. Colt is making that full size right now, I think , but not a LW commander. |
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Oh my goodness. Your first pistol, the commander, that looks like "perfection" to me. I have been building a pistol in my head for years as to what I think would be tops, and that is just about it there. I'd rather have rubber grips though. Although I've never tried those grips. And yeah, I would like it in .38 super. I personally wouldn't mind using just normal pressure .38 super. It seems like most commercial ammo is +p. I've never shot one though to see what I think. But in a LW, I think the +p's might be too stiff for me. But that thing is awesome. 38 Super +P ammunition is standard 38 Super ammunition. The +P was a cosmetic addition (added in 1974) to the name to distinguish 38 Super ammunition from 38 Automatic (38 ACP) ammunition. 38 Automatic is intended for the old Colt pistols (1900-1928) and 38 Super is intended for the new Colt (and others) pistols (1929 - present). Thus, technically, "normal pressure" 38 Super ammunition is labeled 38 Super +P. Yes, it's very confusing. The +P was added because the two cartridges are externally identical. But they are loaded to different pressures. The old 38 Automatic is intended for the old guns (pre 1911 design) that won't tolerate the higher pressure/greater recoil of the full power 38 Super. See the link below for more information: http://38super.net/Pages/History.html Oh, thank you. I think I might have known that at one time, but forgot. Thank you very much. |
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Quoted: Quoted: What's the dfifference in .38 super, 38 SuperComp, 9mm Super and 9x23? Are they interchangeable? .38 Super is semi-rimmed, externally, the dimensions are identical to the 19th century .38 ACP. Pressure is higher however. Never fire the .38 Super in the old Colt .38 ACP chambered guns. .38 SuperComp is a rimless cartridge otherwise similar to the .38 Super. Very similar to the 9mm Largo, and also the 9mm Steyr. Similar does not mean identical, however. 9mm SuperComp is a cartridge case produced by Star-Line. It is externally similar to the 9x23mm Winchester, but has thinner brass. It can be fired in 9x23mm Winchester chambered guns, but not loaded to as high a pressure. (It wil still take quite a bit of pressure, just not as much as the Winchester produced 9x23mm Winchester brass). 9x23mm Winchester is the strongest. If you want to load to the highest pressures, this is the one to use. You can use an unramped barrel with this brass. It is bull strong. My 9x23mm Winchester Gov't model clone, (5" barrel), will break 1500 FPS with the 125 grain Silvertip factory load, at least on a hot Summer day. 9x25 Dillon is faster, but not supported by a major ammunition company. Velocity isn't everything, but it does have a very strong appeal. Or, at least it did, these days I find myself happy with conventional .38 Super loads. Yes, you can get into that range with the 9x19 +p and 9mm major. In the 1911 type pistols, I prefer to use the .38 Super instead of Kaiser Bill's 9mm. I don't buy much at Wal-Mart, and I reload. .38 Super serves me fine. Of course, I still get a thrill out of the 9x23mm Winchester. Thanks for the answers Marc and grendelbane! |
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Quoted: I have looked at the ballistics ( the 38 super was chambered In colts long before the 9mm) And in mainstream ammo companies loads is a bullet of similar weight going about 100 feet per second faster than a 9mm. There are companies that load specialty super that open that velocity increase to about 250 fps which if then compared to say a 9 +p+ the gap narrows again to under 100fps. When you consider the performance increase over good old 9mm is is minimal, and cost of a box of super is nearly double that of 9mm, can only be found in specialty shops as opposed to your average sporting goods chain store or wal mart there is 't much point to the super except nostalgia. If you really want a super, plan to get a spare fitted 9mm barrel and 9mm mags- this will end up being used more in the long run. The only real advantage the super has over the 9 is it does tend to feed a bit better in the 1911 due to its case length compared to 9mm The great thing about .38 super is with it's higher volume case, it can get more velocity at less chamber pressure than 9mm. So while looking at it on paper, one might think the 9mm has no problem "catching up" to .38 super, where the rubber meets the road, the .38 will be faster and easier to shoot. |
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Quoted: Colt is making that full size right now, I think , but not a LW commander.
colt is making a 2 tone lightweight commander in super When I got the Kimber, I asked about ORIGINALLY about getting one of those, old guy behind the counter couldnt stop laughing, APPARENTLY they aren't common
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt is making that full size right now, I think , but not a LW commander. colt is making a 2 tone lightweight commander in super When I got the Kimber, I asked about ORIGINALLY about getting one of those, old guy behind the counter couldnt stop laughing, APPARENTLY they aren't common Do what I did. Start with a LTWT Commander in. 45, buy a .38 Super slide, barrrel, etc. All I have to do to change calibers is change the slide group. Other than the barrels, both are identical. Of course, the 'smith did fit the Bar-Sto barrel, etc. Went with a Bar-Sto barrel because, in 1984, they headspaced on the case mouth and Colt's headspaced on the rim (I understand Colt has changed that), so the Bar-Sto was more accurate (in 1984). One ejector works for both calibers (I forget which caliber ejector). There was an article in American Handgunner (in 1983?) that gave me the idea. |
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Quoted: Colt is making that full size right now, I think , but not a LW commander.
colt is making a 2 tone lightweight commander in super When I got the Kimber, I asked about ORIGINALLY about getting one of those, old guy behind the counter couldnt stop laughing, APPARENTLY they aren't common Do what I did. Start with a LTWT Commander in. 45, buy a .38 Super slide, barrrel, etc. All I have to do to change calibers is change the slide group. Other than the barrels, both are identical. Of course, the 'smith did fit the Bar-Sto barrel, etc. Went with a Bar-Sto barrel because, in 1984, they headspaced on the case mouth and Colt's headspaced on the rim (I understand Colt has changed that), so the Bar-Sto was more accurate (in 1984). One ejector works for both calibers (I forget which caliber ejector). There was an article in American Handgunner (in 1983?) that gave me the idea. I'm good with my stainless procarry, just wish I could actually SEE the Colt! |
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colt is making a 2 tone lightweight commander in super When I got the Kimber, I asked about ORIGINALLY about getting one of those, old guy behind the counter couldnt stop laughing, APPARENTLY they aren't common Nothing Colt is super common. I think it is probably a distributor exclusive but I never looked into it. We got 2 or 3 at the store I was working at and they were sexy. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. Next years 1911 build is blue printed as .38 super comp for USPSA open. I've run the math and .38 super makes more sense for running our moly coat 121 grain HAP bullets. They're calling 9mm major, " the dark side." Not so sure it shouldn't be named, "the not so bright side" when discussing 115 to 124 bullet weights. That said, there's a lot of guys loading 9mm major with a 1980 something mindset. Answering original post, .38 Super is enjoying a resurgence in popularity. As a self defense caliber it's kinda on par with .357 Sig for performance. Look at the numbers for yourself. I have no worries about packing .38 Super for carry, it is an expensive caliber to shoot. It's rare you find range brass and new Starline is expensive. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. With a 115 grain bullet one needs only 1435 fps to make Major (165 power factor). The advantage of lighter bullets for guns with compensators is that they generally produce less muzzle climb than heavier bullets for the same power factor. This is largely due to using more gunpowder for the lighter bullets, which produces more gas volume for the compensator. |
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I don't think that many people argue 9 major as a superior round as far as efficiency or performance, it is strictly a cost/availability issue. Most people can get 9mm brass for free or super cheap. IPSC shooters are all about the cheap. We looked at cost, velocity, pressure and loading for major. Availability of brass was what attracted me, until pricing roll sizer. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. With a 115 grain bullet one needs only 1435 fps to make Major (165 power factor). The advantage of lighter bullets for guns with compensators is that they generally produce less muzzle climb than heavier bullets for the same power factor. This is largely due to using more gunpowder for the lighter bullets, which produces more gas volume for the compensator. I know what power factor is. I know what happens when load doesn't make chronograph, seen it first hand on national level. Thanks for coming, you've forfeited the $300.00 in entry fee and a years worth of work to get here. Next year maybe you will load a little heavier for margin of err. We built our ballistic model at 173 PF for 1,510 fps. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. With a 115 grain bullet one needs only 1435 fps to make Major (165 power factor). The advantage of lighter bullets for guns with compensators is that they generally produce less muzzle climb than heavier bullets for the same power factor. This is largely due to using more gunpowder for the lighter bullets, which produces more gas volume for the compensator. I know what power factor is. I know what happens when load doesn't make chronograph, seen it first hand on national level. Thanks for coming, you've forfeited the $300.00 in entry fee and a years worth of work to get here. Next year maybe you will load a little heavier for margin of err. We built our ballistic model at 173 PF for 1,510 fps. I was just going for clarification, and also to be specific for new readers who might not understand power factor and didn't want them to think that 1510 was the floor for a 115 grain bullet. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. With a 115 grain bullet one needs only 1435 fps to make Major (165 power factor). The advantage of lighter bullets for guns with compensators is that they generally produce less muzzle climb than heavier bullets for the same power factor. This is largely due to using more gunpowder for the lighter bullets, which produces more gas volume for the compensator. I know what power factor is. I know what happens when load doesn't make chronograph, seen it first hand on national level. Thanks for coming, you've forfeited the $300.00 in entry fee and a years worth of work to get here. Next year maybe you will load a little heavier for margin of err. We built our ballistic model at 173 PF for 1,510 fps. I was just going for clarification, and also to be specific for new readers who might not understand power factor and didn't want them to think that 1510 was the floor for a 115 grain bullet. Thank You for the clarification. Seems I have a new omnibudsman to follow me around arfcom. I welcome you to do just that. However, conversation was geared for posters who are regulars here and know target PF is 165. This is a handgun forum, not a reloading forum. No hand holding, spoon feeding or big brother needed here as most in this forum have no interest in handloading or competitve shooting. This is more the what gun, type forum. Thanks for your help though. I know you're waiting for a response to another thread. You'll have to excuse my absence. Still trying to figure out why one guy ran a football 95 yards the wrong way and giving the other three their cheerleading time. Will visit thread again first week of January. Regards, dc. |
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Thank You for the clarification. Seems I have a new omnibudsman (do you mean ombudsman?) to follow me around arfcom. Nope. I welcome you to do just that. However, conversation was geared for posters who are regulars here and know target PF is 165. This is a handgun forum, not a reloading forum. No hand holding, spoon feeding or big brother needed here as most in this forum have no interest in handloading or competitve shooting. This is more the what gun, type forum. Thanks for your help though. I know you're waiting for a response to another thread. No I'm not. You'll have to excuse my absence. Still trying to figure out why one guy ran a football 95 yards the wrong way and giving the other three their cheerleading time. Will visit thread again first week of January. Regards, dc. |
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9mm major is the route to go now. Is it ? We were kicking numbers last week for 9mm major using 115 grain bullet. Velocity calculated to 1,510 fps to make major. The correct loading by my way of thinking anyway is 147 grain powered with 3N38 moving at 1,200 fps and still within SAAMI spec. Loaded sensibly I agree, 9mm major is the way to go. Loaded crazy, plumb, stupid like a lot of guys are loading 115 grain, .38 super makes a lot more sense. With a 115 grain bullet one needs only 1435 fps to make Major (165 power factor). The advantage of lighter bullets for guns with compensators is that they generally produce less muzzle climb than heavier bullets for the same power factor. This is largely due to using more gunpowder for the lighter bullets, which produces more gas volume for the compensator. I know what power factor is. I know what happens when load doesn't make chronograph, seen it first hand on national level. Thanks for coming, you've forfeited the $300.00 in entry fee and a years worth of work to get here. Next year maybe you will load a little heavier for margin of err. We built our ballistic model at 173 PF for 1,510 fps. I shot a few USPSA national championships myself. If you don't make the major power factor at the chrono test you can still shoot minor assuming you at least make the minimum power factor for minor. NAD |
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Thank You for the clarification. Seems I have a new omnibudsman (do you mean ombudsman?) to follow me around arfcom. Nope. I welcome you to do just that. However, conversation was geared for posters who are regulars here and know target PF is 165. This is a handgun forum, not a reloading forum. No hand holding, spoon feeding or big brother needed here as most in this forum have no interest in handloading or competitve shooting. This is more the what gun, type forum. Thanks for your help though. I know you're waiting for a response to another thread. No I'm not. You'll have to excuse my absence. Still trying to figure out why one guy ran a football 95 yards the wrong way and giving the other three their cheerleading time. Will visit thread again first week of January. Regards, dc. No, I meant omnibudsman since you're trying to be every place at once. 
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Quoted:
I shot a few USPSA national championships myself. If you don't make the major power factor at the chrono test you can still shoot minor assuming you at least make the minimum power factor for minor. NAD Of course you can and he most likely did but it pretty much ruins your match. |