[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M&P 9 Question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/22/2012 2:30:20 PM EDT
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun.
He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! |
| What do you mean by unlocking to soon? I have had a couple M&P9's, and they have been flawless. I also had an M&P 45c and fullsize. The M&P45c is a great carry size (about the size of a Glock 19) If ammo cost isn't an issue, I would go 45. I like keeping things all the same, so I got rid of my 45's and decided to keep everything 9mm. |
| It's hard to say how widespread the issues are. There are alot of people on here and on Pistol forum.net, and the M&P forum that have the problem, but the people that post on the internet are still the minority of the actual owners of these guns. I will say though that the issues that I read about swayed me away from picking up an M&P. I guess if your dad buys one and it turns out to have problems, Smith's CS is very good and will try to make things right. |
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I have their full size 9mm and their compact 9mm. I shoot both really well and don't really notice any issues.
From what I'm reading, it's the full size 9mm that some have problems with as it relates to early unlocking issues. And even then... I'm reading that the issues are likely to be shooter related more than gun related. Some shooters seem to be less accurate past 15yds ( imagine that... ). Some shooters seem to be more accurate at distance with their pet guns such as : glock. 1911. XD. revolver. (insert pet gun name here) I personally hit 12" X 18" dinger plates at 30-40yds with both of mine. I don't know how it groups on paper though... So my personal experiences aren't worth much IMO. There are a few on-going threads that deal with this issue right here in the S&W handgun forum of AR-15. |
| Get the M&P...if it is a real issue, send it back and let S&W fix it...for 97% of what you will use a self defense gun for any issues with 25yd + pinpoint accuracy are moot anyhow. We see kids qualify every month on stock M&P 9mms out to 25yd...no problems. The bigger issue for me with the M&P is the trigger...Apex is the fix for that. |
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun. He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! why would you tell him about unlocking issues? do you have a M&P with unlocking issues? because i dont and i have 3 M&P 9s. I think it is being blown out of proportion but thats just me. I say this in every thread that involves a "better trigger" or "accuracy issues" : 9 out of 10 times it the shooter not the gun. Some may have a legit problem but most dont. I dont think they have a issue but maybe ive been lucky with the 3 years i have been shooting and owning M&Ps. XDs suck ass to me weird angle, weird trigger, ugly, and get shit on by IDPA |
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun. He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! why would you tell him about unlocking issues? do you have a M&P with unlocking issues? because i dont and i have 3 M&P 9s. I think it is being blown out of proportion but thats just me. I say this in every thread that involves a "better trigger" or "accuracy issues" : 9 out of 10 times it the shooter not the gun. Some may have a legit problem but most dont. I dont think they have a issue but maybe ive been lucky with the 3 years i have been shooting and owning M&Ps. XDs suck ass to me weird angle, weird trigger, ugly, and get shit on by IDPA I never told him straight out "M&P 9's suck, buy something different", I just mentioned what I had heard. That is also the exact reason I started this thread, to try to figure out what is fact, and what is being blown out of proportion. |
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Quoted: Get the M&P...if it is a real issue, send it back and let S&W fix it...for 97% of what you will use a self defense gun for any issues with 25yd + pinpoint accuracy are moot anyhow. We see kids qualify every month on stock M&P 9mms out to 25yd...no problems. The bigger issue for me with the M&P is the trigger...Apex is the fix for that. I love buying a new product that just needs to be fixed.  |
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Get the M&P...if it is a real issue, send it back and let S&W fix it...for 97% of what you will use a self defense gun for any issues with 25yd + pinpoint accuracy are moot anyhow. We see kids qualify every month on stock M&P 9mms out to 25yd...no problems. The bigger issue for me with the M&P is the trigger...Apex is the fix for that. I love buying a new product that just needs to be fixed.
So what gun has a really nice trigger out of the box? |
| I have an M&P40 and noticed that my gun's accuracy is poor and it tends to shoot high. supposedly the 40's don't have the unlocking problem. I am more accurate with every other pistol in my collection including a PPK. I am going to test it with the gun rested "off the bench" at 25 yards this weekend. If I can't hold a 4" group while rested I'm trading it in on a Glock. |
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I hate plastic pistols, think Glocks sucked. I tried owning several over the years.
I got a M&P 9 fullsize, I have the stock trigger and my primary choice in handguns always has been. And always will be 1911s. That out of the way, the trigger works great for me and accuracy is more than acceptable for a service type pistol. I hit 8" steel plates out to 25yds at pretty decent speeds with regularity. I only complain that I had to drift the rear sight a tad to the right. I am on the fence about grinding down some of the beavertail and trying to CCW the thing this summer. |
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I have an M&P40 and noticed that my gun's accuracy is poor and it tends to shoot high. supposedly the 40's don't have the unlocking problem. I am more accurate with every other pistol in my collection including a PPK. I am going to test it with the gun rested "off the bench" at 25 yards this weekend. If I can't hold a 4" group while rested I'm trading it in on a Glock. Ive never owned a .40 anything that shot well. |
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I have an M&P40 and noticed that my gun's accuracy is poor and it tends to shoot high. supposedly the 40's don't have the unlocking problem. I am more accurate with every other pistol in my collection including a PPK. I am going to test it with the gun rested "off the bench" at 25 yards this weekend. If I can't hold a 4" group while rested I'm trading it in on a Glock. Ive never owned a .40 anything that shot well. you may be right about 40's having an overall tendency to be less accurate. My S&W 4006 is very accurate though. My M&P's groups have me really concerned about the gun. |
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun. He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! why would you tell him about unlocking issues? do you have a M&P with unlocking issues? because i dont and i have 3 M&P 9s. I think it is being blown out of proportion but thats just me. I say this in every thread that involves a "better trigger" or "accuracy issues" : 9 out of 10 times it the shooter not the gun. Some may have a legit problem but most dont. I dont think they have a issue but maybe ive been lucky with the 3 years i have been shooting and owning M&Ps. XDs suck ass to me weird angle, weird trigger, ugly, and get shit on by IDPA I never told him straight out "M&P 9's suck, buy something different", I just mentioned what I had heard. That is also the exact reason I started this thread, to try to figure out what is fact, and what is being blown out of proportion. im going to tell you like any honest person will tell you. STOP PERPETUATING RUMORS! If you have not had the problem for your self dont pass it on as some sort of truth. I only makes you seem like an ASS. |
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Get the M&P...if it is a real issue, send it back and let S&W fix it...for 97% of what you will use a self defense gun for any issues with 25yd + pinpoint accuracy are moot anyhow. We see kids qualify every month on stock M&P 9mms out to 25yd...no problems. The bigger issue for me with the M&P is the trigger...Apex is the fix for that. I love buying a new product that just needs to be fixed.
what a dumbass. All products have their problems. and you way of thinking is just amazing. Thats like saying " after a boob job, nose job, and dye job, and some lypo she will be a solid 8". Idiot |
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. I dont like bashing products so i wont get into the problems that my Gen 4 22 had. but i agree they all have there own problems. |
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I have put over 2k rounds of Russian crap through my 9c without a single hiccup! I also own an XD and prefer my M&P more. See these are the type of post that should be on the fourms. The ones that show people actually shoot their guns. Good deal man. My father in law gave me some old ass brown bear and at first i was afraid to shoot it because all of the internet post about it. But now i look for that shit for lost brass matches. |
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My M&P 9 shoots to poa/poi at 25 yds so I know it isn't unlocking early. Pistols unlocking early are shooting way high.
Now, I don't know how accurate of a group it will shoot at 25yds off a bench so ultimate accuracy is yet undetermined, but off hand accuracy at 7-10yds is outstanding. I would not hesitate to purchase another M&P 9. |
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun. He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! why would you tell him about unlocking issues? do you have a M&P with unlocking issues? because i dont and i have 3 M&P 9s. I think it is being blown out of proportion but thats just me. I say this in every thread that involves a "better trigger" or "accuracy issues" : 9 out of 10 times it the shooter not the gun. Some may have a legit problem but most dont. I dont think they have a issue but maybe ive been lucky with the 3 years i have been shooting and owning M&Ps. XDs suck ass to me weird angle, weird trigger, ugly, and get shit on by IDPA I never told him straight out "M&P 9's suck, buy something different", I just mentioned what I had heard. That is also the exact reason I started this thread, to try to figure out what is fact, and what is being blown out of proportion. im going to tell you like any honest person will tell you. STOP PERPETUATING RUMORS! If you have not had the problem for your self dont pass it on as some sort of truth. I only makes you seem like an ASS. Really dude?
If I was being this "ass" you speak of, I would have said "M&P 9's suck, they have all kinda of issues, stay far away" and left it at that. By making this thread and trying to find out what is really going is, and trying to help my dad out, shows that I am not an ass. I will admit, I don't have an M&P, as I do not like how they feel, so I cannot go off personal experience. That is why there are forums to share info. Yes, sometimes rumors get started and perpetuated, but this thread is not about "perpetuating rumors", it is trying to dispel them. |
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Get the M&P...if it is a real issue, send it back and let S&W fix it...for 97% of what you will use a self defense gun for any issues with 25yd + pinpoint accuracy are moot anyhow. We see kids qualify every month on stock M&P 9mms out to 25yd...no problems. The bigger issue for me with the M&P is the trigger...Apex is the fix for that. I love buying a new product that just needs to be fixed.
So what gun has a really nice trigger out of the box? My Sig has a outstanding DA trigger right out of the box |
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My dad just got his pistol permit, and he is looking for his first handgun. He really likes the M&P series, and is on the fence between a 9 and 45. He is mostly looking to target shoot, so he was looking more towards the 9mm due to the lower cost of ammo and the higher capacity. I told him about the issues that the M&P 9's have with unlocking too soon. As a result, he is leaning towards either an XDM in 9mm, or the M&P 45. My question though, is what's the story with the M&P 9's? Is it all being blown out of proportion? Or do they really have a serious issue? Thanks! Huge S&W fan Yes Ive heard of the problems with them. I played with a M&P9c at the gs. The slide to frame fit is pretty loose. I`ll pass for now. The accuracy of my 5906/6906 isnt nothing to write home about. Now if they could match the accuracy of my Sig I would write home. |
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my 9c is out of control, at 25 yards i scatter rounds all over an 8" target 
however i didn't buy it for target shooting. other guns are better for target shooting. my m&p rocks. REALLY???? My 9c is super accurate... people love shooting it cause it is so smooth.. of course thats what happens when you send it of to Burwell for some trigger adjustments. |
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my 9c is out of control, at 25 yards i scatter rounds all over an 8" target
however i didn't buy it for target shooting. other guns are better for target shooting. my m&p rocks. REALLY???? My 9c is super accurate... people love shooting it cause it is so smooth.. of course thats what happens when you send it of to Burwell for some trigger adjustments. pretty sure it's me, i might not be the best  ever born
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. |
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My M&P 9 shoots to poa/poi at 25 yds so I know it isn't unlocking early. Pistols unlocking early are shooting way high. Now, I don't know how accurate of a group it will shoot at 25yds off a bench so ultimate accuracy is yet undetermined, but off hand accuracy at 7-10yds is outstanding. I would not hesitate to purchase another M&P 9. Ditto for me. It is one ragged hole at 10 yards. I need to put it on paper at 25 just to check, but sometimes I suck like a mutha at 25+ yards, depending on the day. 
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Uh, no. Erratic ejection, extraction is well documented on another forum, along with Glock's fumbling with solutions. Actually has kept me from buying a new G34. |
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I am fortunate to be able to go to the range and shoot far more often than most and I will attest to the FACT the the overwhelming majority of the time; accuracy problems are the fault of the shooter rather than the gun.
I've got two M&Ps, a full size .40 which served as my carry gun for four years and an M&P 9c . The full size pistol is extremely accurate and has gone through just over 10,000 rounds without a firearm related stoppage of any sort. The compact has been exemplary as well. For precision shooting, I prefer my SIgs or my S&W 625. -8 Performance Center Revolver in .45 ACP becacause their accuracy is uncanny and I can utilize it. But they also cost orders of magnitude more, and not everyone can take advantage of their increas in accuracy over that of the M&Ps. Buy the M&P with confidence, they are great pistols and in the unlikely event you need after sales customer service, Smith & Wesson provides it forever. Every company lets a few turds get out the door, and some of them are much more expensive too. |
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Uh, no. Erratic ejection, extraction is well documented on another forum, along with Glock's fumbling with solutions. Actually has kept me from buying a new G34. Uh how many people a day do you see have problems with gen 4 glocks. I see at least 1 a day. It is well documented with the people who don't have the proper glock grip. I have 2 gen 4 glocks with no problems and know many others with them also with no problems. We rent the same gen 4 guns everyday and 1/3 of the people have problems with them the others say it shoots great. This proves it is the shooter not the gun. I would trust my life to my rental gen 4 17 that someone just had a lot of jams with on the range. Because every time I shoot it it works 100%.I can shoot it one handed and have no problems. I also sell and rent M&P 9s with no accuracy issues and have never heard of accuracy complaints with them. I can only give you guys feedback of what I see everyday. I won't pass on things I've heard only first hand experience. |
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Uh, no. Erratic ejection, extraction is well documented on another forum, along with Glock's fumbling with solutions. Actually has kept me from buying a new G34. [/ Uh how many people a day do you see have problems with gen 4 glocks. I see at least 1 a day. It is well documented with the people who don't have the proper glock grip. I have 2 gen 4 glocks with no problems and know many others with them also with no problems. We rent the same gen 4 guns everyday and 1/3 of the people have problems with them the others say it shoots great. This proves it is the shooter not the gun. I would trust my life to my rental gen 4 17 that someone just had a lot of jams with on the range. Because every time I shoot it it works 100%.I can shoot it one handed and have no problems. I also sell and rent M&P 9s with no accuracy issues and have never heard of accuracy complaints with them. I can only give you guys feedback of what I see everyday. I won't pass on things I've heard only first hand experience. Yeah, I didn't mean to discount your observations of shooter error. I just think there are some design issues going on that haven't been ironed out completely yet with the Gen4s. |
| I tested my M&P 40 yesterday bench rested at 25 yards. 15 round group size was 8.5 inches. Rounds tended to be higher than aiming point but inconsistent. I tested my p229 (also 40 cal) indentically and achieved a 4 inch group. I saved my targets and will upload pics. |
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OK first I want to make it clear that not all M&P pistols have this problem. I have been looking into this on other forums and this issue is believed by some to be related to a change S&W made in manufacturing to save money. My pistol, an M&P 40 full size, definitely has the problem and it is not the shooter. It seems that this issue is most common with 9 mm's and doesn't affect 45's. Your pistol may not have the issue and if so I am envious because the M&P is otherwise a great pistol. I don't even mind the factory trigger, love the ergos the grip feel, the low bore axis and recoil characteristics, etc...
So I noticed my gun's accuracy sucked and shot high and did a liltte bench rest testing at 25 yards at the range. I compared it to a Sig P229 also in 40 S&w using the same conditions (same ammo, target, # of rounds, 25 yards). All shots were made while seated using both hands rested on the bench, taking my time to slowly fire each shot with perfect sight alignment on the center of the target. Ammo was new 180 gr Federal Champion. S&W M&P 40 FULL SIZE, 15 rounds, Benchrested, 25 Yards 
Sig P229 40 cal., 15 rounds, Benchrested, 25 Yards 
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Uh, no. Erratic ejection, extraction is well documented on another forum, along with Glock's fumbling with solutions. Actually has kept me from buying a new G34. [/ Uh how many people a day do you see have problems with gen 4 glocks. I see at least 1 a day. It is well documented with the people who don't have the proper glock grip. I have 2 gen 4 glocks with no problems and know many others with them also with no problems. We rent the same gen 4 guns everyday and 1/3 of the people have problems with them the others say it shoots great. This proves it is the shooter not the gun. I would trust my life to my rental gen 4 17 that someone just had a lot of jams with on the range. Because every time I shoot it it works 100%.I can shoot it one handed and have no problems. I also sell and rent M&P 9s with no accuracy issues and have never heard of accuracy complaints with them. I can only give you guys feedback of what I see everyday. I won't pass on things I've heard only first hand experience. Yeah, I didn't mean to discount your observations of shooter error. I just think there are some design issues going on that haven't been ironed out completely yet with the Gen4s. Well said. Should it function with every shooter that picks one up, yes I agree. |
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OK first I want to make it clear that not all M&P pistols have this problem. I have been looking into this on other forums and this issue is believed by some to be related to a change S&W made in manufacturing to save money. My pistol, an M&P 40 full size, definitely has the problem and it is not the shooter. It seems that this issue is most common with 9 mm's and doesn't affect 45's. Your pistol may not have the issue and if so I am envious because the M&P is otherwise a great pistol. I don't even mind the factory trigger, love the ergos the grip feel, the low bore axis and recoil characteristics, etc... So I noticed my gun's accuracy sucked and shot high and did a liltte bench rest testing at 25 yards at the range. I compared it to a Sig P229 also in 40 S&w using the same conditions (same ammo, target, # of rounds, 25 yards). All shots were made while seated using both hands rested on the bench, taking my time to slowly fire each shot with perfect sight alignment on the center of the target. Ammo was new 180 gr Federal Champion. I see what you are saying but could you use a better bench rest and try a little closer. Something like a nice 1-2" group with the control gun and then a target showing the M&P shooting high but not left or right. Thanks. |
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absolutely not - this is my finding with my gun which I am sharing, take it or leave it, I have no real motivation to convince you (If you pay me I will though!).
btw, a combat accurate gun will hold a 4" group @ 25 yards, with guns like custom 1911's capable of 2" |
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Issues? I have around 7000+ rounds through my M&P 9mm. No problems. Boring reliability. I liked it enough I bought another one of the compact variety. I'll probably get another full size 9mm when I sell my last 1911. Hell yeah. Just watch out because one turns into two into 6 then you will look up and have nothing but M&Ps in your pistol case. Its weird but it seems like when people by M&Ps to beat the crap out of them they just run like no tomorrow but if you buy them for the once a month range visit they have "problems". Keep the round count rollin |
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Issues? I have around 7000+ rounds through my M&P 9mm. No problems. Boring reliability. I liked it enough I bought another one of the compact variety. I'll probably get another full size 9mm when I sell my last 1911. what ammo are you using in the M&P? just curious because my shoots 2-3 inches at 25 yards. Maybe the guns does not like the ammo. or the technique. |
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absolutely not - this is my finding with my gun which I am sharing, take it or leave it, I have no real motivation to convince you (If you pay me I will though!). btw, a combat accurate gun will hold a 4" group @ 25 yards, with guns like custom 1911's capable of 2" I am sorry for asking. Thanks for the information. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Spend some time over M4Carbine.net and pistol-forum.com; there are number of knowledgeable shooters on those sites that are having issues with Gen4 Glocks. Could the issues you are seeing be shooter-related? Sure; that doesn't mean that 4th Gen Glocks don't have problems unrelated to the shooter as well. |
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My answer to this question: I bought 3 Glocks. Glocks have issues of their own, specificially the 4th gen 9mm models. Hahahaha. I work in a range and see 4th gen glock problems everyday. They jam because of a faulty shooter connected to the grip of the gen 4 9mm glocks. Seriously I rent all gen4 glocks and 1/3 of the people complain about jams then I go in and shoot them and have no issues. Take it from someone who sees this all day long. Nothing wrong with the gun it's the shooters grip. Spend some time over M4Carbine.net and pistol-forum.com; there are number of knowledgeable shooters on those sites that are having issues with Gen4 Glocks. Could the issues you are seeing be shooter-related? Sure; that doesn't mean that 4th Gen Glocks don't have problems unrelated to the shooter as well. I agree 100% there could be problems with the gen 4s but I can only pass on what I see. I won't spread what I've heard as truth only what I personally see. |
| I have a M&P 9c, no problems and it's as accurate as you could expect a gun with that length sight radius to be. Different horses for different courses. As a self defense pistol it's "just right" for me. I've got smaller pistols and they are only good for very up close encounters due to accuracy issues and I've got a Wilson Tactical Elite that will shoot 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards from a rest. Is it the best gun? As a carry gun it's not the best for me. |